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Why Ron Paul Hasn't Called for Armed March on D.C.

Why hasn't Ron Paul called for an armed march on D.C. as Adam Kokesh has? Is it because he's so old and senile now he missed realizing it's a good idea?

Of course not. We all know Dr. Paul's mind is sharper than most people in the world, and everyone in the federal government. So is Kokesh right and Ron Paul wrong?

I will tell you. Dr. Paul understands more about the whole situation than Kokesh probably ever will. That's why Ron Paul as a leader has grown such a large following, a following that includes not just enthusiastic gun owners but smart people like Tom Woods and Judge Andrew Napolitano, people that can't be easily labeled "domestic terrorists".

Dr. Paul understand this must be, for now, an intellectual revolution where we win hearts and minds, which we have been. Why? It's because we don't have a situation of absolute tyranny. There is still a peaceful process by which we can regain constitutional government. The very fact this site exists and we can openly discuss taking up arms against government is evidence of that. If this was China we'd all have been picked up by morning.

Let me clear up a few things.

First, the armed march Adam Kokesh plans is a huge risk, because there are variables he can't control such as agent provocateurs or independent minded marchers. At the same time there is palpable frustration over how far we've strayed from the Constitution which could convert to violence if sparked by a bloody march outcome. I think that's a real danger, and not one I think should be up to Adam Kokesh.

Second, I'm not completely against a hot revolution. If the government pulled an unconstitutional gun grab or martial law then I would agree the time had come, because these are strategic events that could hinder the ability of the people to rise up which is the last Constitutional check keeping government from absolute tyranny.

Third, there are other ways, besides politics or violence, the current status quo will come to an end. The dollar which funds this overgrown empire will crash in the near future. If you don't believe that you haven't been paying attention.

Fourth, the impending economic collapse is inevitable, and we can't "save" things by quickly re-taking government. Any move away from the dollar being printed out of thin air toward gold will collapse it. That's just the reality of the situation because there are too many dollars.

Last, people shouldn't be so ready to kill their fellow countrymen. I doubt most people on this site can say they've always been "awake" to everything that's going on.

Yes, freedom means the ability to rise up against government. I have love and sympathy for people that are willing to in the face of tyranny. I think that's part of being a true American, but with freedom comes responsibility. It's not that anyone is "cowering" to rulers. We know we have the right position. That shouldn't give us the right to grab a gun and curse the world. Don't you see? That's the easy thing. The harder thing is to exercise restraint and use our heads. Otherwise the bankers and elite are playing us for fools - again. They are meddling in the system and creating this dangerous situation where we turn on each other. Don't allow that.




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Because it's idiotic?

Ron Paul is too nice to say what an idiotic idea this is and what is this recycled piece of poop doing back?

It's almost too simple. Massing large amount of armed SOCIO/POLITICAL ANYTHING is bound to threaten a significant % of the population, it's intimidating and therefore coercive.

I bet some folks around here would just love it if there was an armed Muslim march or an armed Pro Israel march in DC.

Second, Ron Paul and many of us are great admirers of Mahatma Ghandi who's non-violent methods are echoed in ours in seeking the peaceful, non-violent resolution.

Third, what are the chances firing breaks out either by misfire/accident, a loon or an agent provoc? What are the combined chances of that happening? Might we agree it's higher than 0%? Ok let's look at the potential consequences of such an occurrence.

Somebody's kids hear "daddy isn't coming home ever again". And a host of other consequences but that being among the worst. Lives are not properly placed with political toys. Which brings me to the fourth,

we have hardly begun to explore the alternatives. We've never tried a general strike and part of this is we have not yet gained mass appeal and we haven't yet formed the types of coalitions that would allow us to be representative in nature. A lot of which comes down to trust.

A lot of people don't trust us because they don't understand us or don't even know us. Showing up with thousands of riflemen on the nation's front lawn isn't like delivering fresh muffins.

Go ahead and argue. As the moon follows the sun.

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Why Ron Paul Hasn't Called

Why Ron Paul Hasn't Called for Armed March on D.C.

because its not time yet

I think Adam needs to take the time to prepare the people.

He has not done his due diligence on preparing people for understanding the event, the aftermath of possible results, and a goal.

He wants to resist, but is impatient with trying to educate. I don't blame him mind you, but I would take care following him unless you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

A hot revolution is a hillbilly/red dawn fantasy

And Dr. Paul knows it. It's exactly what your good Ole Uncle Sam wants. He wants white Americans with guns to turn to the stupidest possible action so everyone in the Liberty movement into "terrorist". They are waiting for the gotcha moment, I swear they are salivating for the first bumpkin to scream "molon labe" and pull the trigger so the real 2A crackdown can begin. Middle America will NOT support you if you start shooting up DC. You act like a barbarian and you will get treated like one.

Go ahead "patriots" line up with your sweet modified AR-15's with all your cool lasers, scopes, and as many overpriced Magpul dodads you can fit on there like Patrick Swayze in Red Dawn to go fight off the evil overlords and see how it turns out. The fantasy of an armed revolution ended when the government was allowed to have far more superior firepower than the average citizen. Lets see how your hillbilly heros stands up to strafing fire from a Blackhawk? Or tell me how hellfire taste as it's deployed from a drone? You "patriots" have Blackhawks and surface to air missiles in your fallout shelters? Didn't think so.

Gandhi freed a nation without firing a shot, MLK freed a entire race globally by peaceful resistance and by just saying "no". People will realize truth when you put it in their faces, not when you send the message wrapped in lead.

Civil disobedience will set us free and your don't need assualt rifles to do it. Imagine what would happen if on tax day American refused to send Uncle Sam a check... could them arrest us all? What if all of us kept our kids home from school until they fixed the system?

But I guess those idea are not as cool as your Modern Combat 4 team up fantasies right?

Absolutely

I see far too many frothing at the mouth to push this country into a violent situation so that they can try out their video game skills in a real live situation. Just these other items you don't have on your list scare the hell out of me if it were to come down to a physical fight like Thermal Imaging Optics, The Mk 19 Grenade Launcher 40 mm belt-fed automatic grenade launchers, and M134 Minigun, M61 Vulcan, GAU-8/A Avenger Gatling guns. They didn't have such things in the movie "enemy at the gates". We can't treat these guys like crap and then expect to subdue them with normal firearms. They will have to be the ones to turn the cannons and defend the people, it cannot be done without them, there is no way the people can subdue the military might of this country. It is imperative that all other "sensible" options must be tried first.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

I'm not so sure the military is full of freedom lovers

who are for defending the Constitution and the American people like most in the Liberty movement think. If the average GI Joe was a Liberty lover like most in the Liberty movement think they are, they wouldn't be signing up to empire build and serve under such a blood soaked flag in the first place. Don't tell me your for Liberty while your signing up to serve, that's a two faced statement. It's silly to think the military doesn't have it's share of soldiers who are loyal to "country" and will follow orders they are giving to get rid of "terrorist" who are staging armed revolts. This isn't 1776, heck it isn't even 1976. Patriotism is a disease that runs rampant in our military.

Putting your hope in the military "doing the right thing" if it would ever come to that is a really risky bet, one I'm not willing to take.

Liberty only exist when YOU can hold it in your hands, not when you are praying for others to defend it if needed.

I understand what you say here

But I have to tell you that most of the kids I have talked too in the service are waking up and will not be wanting to shoot at their own uncle, this is where they will draw the line. We want to promote this ideal, not alienate this advantage if it comes to it. There are more than you think that feel this way and what better position to have these ideals in place but the very ones with the big toys?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

I hope your right but

ask the people @ Ruby Ridge or Waco about how good ole GI Joe feels about shooting Americans. Remember it isn't just the Armed Forces who have guns, the FBI, the IRS and every other alphabet soup DC goon squad is armed to the flippin' teeth. I PROMISE you they are not full of Liberty lovers.

I just feel you are living in a bygone era.

I agree

The other agencies are a problem. They are full of hard core "loyal to government" career minded military personnel. They are the very vetted "cream of the crop" mentally displaced individuals.

There is one fact we have to remember about these kids joining the service, They are sold a bill of goods and lied to while they are in a very vulnerable "scrambled" time of mental development.

They are sold on the idea of instant credit in order to buy a fast car and pick up babes right when their underdeveloped very hormonal brains can think of nothing else beyond these immediate priorities in life.

I am a very firm believer that if they were not able to join until they are 21 years of age there would be very few to join. My dad wouldn't have, I wouldn't have, my daughter wouldn't have, most of those I know wouldn't have.

You can bet that everyone on this board that was in the service wouldn't have either. Things and thoughts change once you are in there and realize you are enslaved to enforce evil political policies.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Ignorance is no excuse as

you can't use it in a court of law. If by 18 you have not seen the true evil that is our government then you are probably never gonna see it. We live in an age where information is EVERYWHERE, to say that you didn't know our intentions were not as clean as they should be is a shoddy excuse. Like I said before your argument doesn't hold water in a court of law. After over a decade of empire building and bloody murder, there is NO excuse why anyone at 18 should not know the score. It's not like we just put boots on the ground in Afghanistan yesterday. At 18 you can't shoot your neighbor and then goto court and tell the judge you didn't know bullets come out of a gun when you pull the trigger. I come from a military family and I in no way "hate the troops", matter of fact I love them enough to beg our politicians to no send them off to die for nothing. They are brother/mothers/sons/daughters coming home in boxes for NOTHING and it breaks my heart. But this hero worship of GI's from the Liberty movement has to stop. I can't respect anyone who goes and WILLINGLY signs up to hop into the sandbox.

Lots of pre-teen and early teen pregnanacies because people are too lazy to use condoms or the pill, do you let them off the hook too? What about young people in urban environments that join the drug trade to have a little money, do you let gangbangers who shoot up neighborhoods go free because "they are in a very vulnerable "scrambled" time of mental development."

The answer to the problem is ENDING the chances of a military career before it starts. We shouldn't need an army so large where millions of young people can choose it as a paycheck/career path.

Then you are special

You must have been very special to actually understand or care about political policy issues when you were 17 1/2 still in high school. All most care about is getting out from under parental control, getting out of a small boring town, getting paid to party and get laid. This is what recruiters sell you and nothing else matters to these kids. Then when they get there they are mentally "broke" like a horse by ages old brainwashing tactics. They truly are victims until they open their eyes and mature a year later, then it is too late, They are by contract law gagged and bound legally. You might want to consider the fact that a very large percentage of true liberty fighters going in the right direction now, were once in the service themselves before they woke up. Blame not the tool but the policy makers controlling the tool.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Dose of reality.

Good points.

What would the Founders do?

excellent post. I agree with

excellent post. I agree with everything you said.

Ventura 2012

Offering a reading list.

The concept of argument, to me, is abhorrent; what is the point: bend someone to your will by using any means, including deception, threats, and violence?

This topic reminds me of three very important books.

1.
http://www.amazon.com/Unintended-Consequences-John-Ross/dp/1...

If you have not read that book, then you can't understand why I have that book on the list.

2.
http://www.amazon.com/Voices-From-The-Third-Reich/dp/030680594

That book is especially significant because it was authored, or assembled, by a Military Combat Veteran of World War II, a person who fought against the Nazi Criminals, and you can argue that all the way to whatever central bank owns you.

3.
http://www.christianbook.com/gulag-archipelago-1956-volume-1...

From the author of that one is required, in my opinion, a relevant quote, useful to some, toxic to others, I suspect.

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

I'm not done.

Two links, read and do whatever comes naturally as a result, or, on the other hand, refuse to know what is actually happening in your country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btatzG-S2bY

http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/war/page/w...

Joe

everyone complaining about

everyone complaining about this protest remind me of the tories complaining about the patriots protesting the british or pissing off the king.

Ron Paul 2016

Numbnuts....

Tories were pro-British. Nobody here is saying resistance isn't in order.

People are doubtful about the wisdom of and motives behind this particular action.

Have armed Americans show up as if prepared for actual combat, and then get their asses kicked in public, or just be threatened and then turn away as if they didn't mean it?

Best case scenario, you get a bunch of people killed who become martyrs and touch off a general resistance that eventually prevails. That's a long shot for a lot of reasons,and it's pretty crass toward the people who get killed.

More likely you get a PR disaster and a massive net loss for the liberty movement because the goal/statement is undefined and DC spin doctors can make whatever they want out of the chaos created.

It's very dramatic, having loaded guns and all, but goal-wise it's completely open-ended, beyond the obvious goal of putting Kokesh dead center in a media shitstorm.

hey you numbnuts , i clearly

hey you numbnuts , i clearly said they remind me. I know exactly who the tories are numbnuts or i wouldn't of said they remind me. repeat the ones attacking this march sound like or remind me of tories. do you get it yet? numbnuts? do you understand numbnuts, just repeating your numbnuts numbnuts.

Ron Paul 2016

Enough numbnuts.

Sorry, I wanted to say numbnuts too.

Ron Paul doesn't have to come

Ron Paul doesn't have to come out and say it. He has said repeatedly he endorses civil disobedience. This is civil disobedience!

The same people bitching,complaining,friday quarterbacking or monday morning quarterbacking are basically missing the whole point of Civil Disobedience.
Sounds more like tories complaining about patriots protesting the british. The protest is exactly what it is CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE to unjust laws which go against the very rule of law the US CONSTITUTION!!!!

not for it? stay home and let the lil british(us gov) protect you from the evil US Constitution.

Ron Paul 2016

What is/are the Goal(s) of this "March"?

What are the best possible outcomes from this?

What are the certain/most realistic gains to be realized from doing this?

What are the worst case scenarios possible from taking this action?
What are the contingency plans in the event of those worst possible outcomes becoming realized?

What are the lesser downside risks of this action?

Are the possible upsides of this more likely and more valuable than the possible downsides of taking this specific action?

So far what I have heard on the Pro side of this discussion/argument is that things have gone too far and it is long past time for those that are not p****ys to demonstrate that they have b*lls.

Yeah. no sh*t things have gone too far for far too long.

How does the demonstration, by some, that they have "b*lls" change that situation one bit. What are the odds that such a demonstration only makes a very bad situation-VERY MUCH WORSE.

There is the old joke about the last words of a redneck(in the modern sense/perception of what constitutes a redneck):

"Hey Ya'll, Watch This!!!"

So far to me this seems very much like that joke to me. A lot of foolish bravado that, at best, does nothing but causes great harm to those "doing something" and likely those that care about them.

Extra credit question: Do you know who was behind altering/crafting the early "anti-war"(Vietnam) movement into a public perception that it was movement of filthy, dope smoking, acid dropping, free fornicating, "hippies" rather than what it really was at its' outset?

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

5 star post!

Finally someone who gets it. That is how you plan an operation.

alot of what ifs, what if the

alot of what ifs, what if the patriots never rised up against the british. what if what if what if.

Ron Paul 2016

That is, perhaps, exactly the point.

Some very admirable patriots did rise up against the British. They said they had always governed themselves and they always intended to. In the end, so many of them were killed that a domestic Constitutional tyranny much worse than the British tyranny was raised up against them, and we are dealing with it now. Let me repeat: They failed. The Constitution completely repudiated the Declaration of Independence.

We are not half the people that those patriots were, either in philosophical understanding and conviction or in relative numbers. I disagree with posters above. We have the firepower to decimate the United States military. Remember a handful (literally a handful---less than 100 men) of committed Irishmen effectively shut down the entire British military in Ireland in a full blown police state. That could easily be accomplished here, hellfire or no. But what we don't have is people who can discern liberty and self-government from a hole in the ground. At least we don't have a sizable portion of the population.

Therefore, a military victory leads nowhere at the moment.

Of course, the objections against Kokesh are basically BS, because he was not planning any kind of confrontation. Just a peaceful march. He and the marchers getting arrested was about all there was to be worried about. All other objections are basically nonsense.

Something off somewhere about

Something off somewhere about the Kokesh march.

It's not completely logical....If he was ready for violence and wanted to go toe to toe with DC thugs, it would make sense. He says, however, that he will submit when force is brought to bear.

So what the hell is the point?

"I'm gonna demonstrate that I can carry a loaded weapon where you told me not to and then get my ass kicked and thrown in jail. Gee, I showed you."

What's the statement being made? If the bully calmly smashes you, and if you give him permission to smash you at the outset, you aren't really making a stand....You're possibly making the problem worse.

He's also creating a lot of opportunities for things to go pretty wrong, get some people killed for no reason.

I don't get the impression this is thought through beyond gratifying Kokesh's ego.

you sound like a tory telling

you sound like a tory telling patriots to stop protesting the british. It might cause some waves or piss off the king!

Ron Paul 2016

You sound like an

You sound like an intellectual dwarf unable to grasp nuances as you try to come up with American Revolution parallels.

I could not have said it any better

you are 100% correct in my book.It's too bad people aren't sophisticated enough to undrstand this.

Yeah you guys are fucking

Yeah you guys are fucking real intellectuals... omg we are so glad to have in the movment.

PS: you guys ever heard of a city called Boston? From what i understand it is in the united states and there was illegal gun grabs and marshal called. I mean... I'm all about civil discourse but your a fucking retard.

you're

movEment

you'rE

marshalL

Not a thoughtful post. lol

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This is actually a good post

This is actually a good post it is separating the children from the adults. Children like to play video games and play at fake societies and think they are accomplishing somethings etc.

Adults get up off their ass and do what needs to be done. Adam is the adult here all the cowards thinking doing the same thing over and over will change things can sit down and let the adults take care of things!

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