-12 votes

I think I am done with Rand.

I just dont understand this fella anymore. Selling his soul to maybe be president, selling out Libertarians, sold out his own dad.....man...it just seems like babes for leaders.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/13/rand-paul-assures-evangeli...

We all have our opinions and I respect yours, but can you see where I am coming from? Flip flop, do anything to get votes kind of guy. being awake for a decade now, he just feels wrong to me....wrong!



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I've got oil

I've got oil for this fire ;-) So you think one prison guard is better than the other? O'k I'll give you that, however you miss the big picture: YOU ARE STILL IN PRISON! Doesn't matter who's in charge of the government, your lives will still be RUN by it. You people ask, well do you have a better candidate? Well yes I do, it's NONE of the Above, only NONE of the Above wants to shrink the government, only NONE of the Above wants to end the FED, only NONE of the Above wants to end the taxation, only NONE of the Above cares about you and your kids future, I'm voting for that Guy! Only NONE of the Above gives a shit about anyone except it's own future. People, evolve, the government or whoever is in charge of it, is not the solution, the government IS the problem. You know why Soviet Union collapsed? Because people stopped giving fuck about it, they've starved the beast by not caring and not participating, they've abandoned the Religion called state.

LIBERTY2ME's picture

My opinion, it doesn't matter

My opinion, it doesn't matter what you beleive or who you believe in, until America sees that the voting system is rigged, we will never have what we wnat in our government.

Grow Up

The country isn't ready for full blown legalization of drugs. Baby steps...

Why is so hard to understand there are a lot of people in America; most of which do not agree with libertarians.

This is why libertarians are a useless bunch. If you don't believe exactly what they believe you are dead to them. Grow up.

Your last few comments pretty

Your last few comments pretty much mirrors my line of thinking when it comes to rand, and its only out of respect to others, and yes, one or two actions by rand, some good, and yes, for me, some not so good, have i decided to be on the fence about him, im STILL on the fence, would love to be proven wrong, but it doesnt look like its swinging that way

I think at best, ill support the actions i support, but not his ideals, not completely at least.......not unless he is liberty in disguise, trying to infiltrate before he's real side comes out, which is becoming more and more wishfull thinking these days for me

No kidding?

What took you so long?

“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”― Henry David Thoreau

Truth is

Neither Rand nor Ron are true libertarians. Ron, god love him, was too socially conservative to be a true libertarian, and Rand. Well he's just riding his dad's coattails trying to get rich and powerful off of it. He's a true Republican.

yawn....not again

If you were done with him, you wouldn't be trying to actively drag him down without suggesting a plausible alternative candidate. Please get back to us when you work out that detail.

NCMarc's picture

In my opinion, Rand is trying

In my opinion, Rand is trying to be less extreme than his dad so more people are accepting of him. I really think he's much better than anyone else that could pull off a victory. (probably not).

The problem is, until the SHTF bad, the American public will continue to embrace the 2 party system.

-----
A great empire, like a great cake, is most easily diminished at the edges. - Ben Franklin

when ron was interviwed

about his "extreme" ideas, he'd always say: what? peace, sound money and freedom are extreme ideas?

Yeah well He is not Jesus

Good luck with their ram down our throat candidates...Hillary and Jeb..You know ..those two elitist that drink together and wink together at social events. Jehovah told Israel that their wanting a King over them like their neighbors instead of God and his Priests was wickedness. God granted their wish and gave them Jesus whom they also rejected. While I wait for Jesus I need to make the best decisions at hand for myself and who is their besides..Ron or Rand Paul, Ted Cruz Kucinich...there are only a handful that could remotely save this country at this point.

When will people give up on

When will people give up on the system, instead of single politicians. There will be no democratic victory. The same force that controls our political class, also controls our media. The opinion makers are, all of them, the puppets of that force. They own the ideal of America, and they decide what it means, and to whom.

When people give up on the system

we will have won. The system is not now, nor has it ever been a system 'for the People, by the People, and of the People' (thanks a lot, Abe). It is a figment of our imagination. All power structures MUST maintain the consent of the majority of its subjects, whether by force, persuasion, or acquiescence, to maintain that power.

Waiting for some superman to save us will never work. Freedom can only prevail after enough of us have wiped cleaned from our heads the delusional concept, that we have been force-fed our entire lives, that a fictitious entity exists with a monopolistic legal right to immorality - dubbed government.

Rand is no good. I'm sitting

Rand is no good. I'm sitting against Rand now too.

A few thoughts...

What inspired me to action in 2008 and again in 2012 (as is true for many of us I'm sure), is the way Ron Paul brought honesty to politics.

The consistant principled honesty which poured our every time the guy opened his mouth totally changed everything and allowed people to come together.

If Rand is your champion, try to understand that because of the fact stated above, many people are going to feel left out by Rand's "chess game". When one of the primary elements to the formation of a movement is discarded, people within that movement are going to feel deflated and "betrayed" ...

Those feelings are really to be expected, so you have to understand where people are coming from. What is most unfortunate here is the way lines have been drawn and the loss of individuality to the collectivized: With or Against Rand - movement.

I'm not exactly in love with Rand's "strategy", but I'm also not in love with the way the case has been made against him. Think about the non-aggression principle, and lets try to appeal to one another with reason and not with hostile angry lines we draw in the sand.

You simply don't win anyone over and you don't learn from them in the process. Why make enemies when you can potentially make allies? Why not appeal to one another's humanity and try to understand if not agree why we think and act the way we do?

I will probably never help out in a Rand Paul campaign they way I did for Ron's two runs (money, time, blood, sweat & tears), but I'm not going to denounce him and his "followers" as traitors and redcoats either.

I think its reasonable to say: I only want to support an honest and consistent candidate who fully supports the non-agression principle.

Perhaps you can see where I'm coming from?

Here, downvote this...

I've been done with Rand Paul for awhile. I came here for his father, not for his mushy milktoast flip-flop stylings... I don't have a problem with you all down voting me... but I don't see what the need is for all the hostility from the Rand sycophants. Rand isn't is father, and I don't care for his mainstream republican policies.

You can add this one to the list...

http://www.policymic.com/articles/30223/rand-paul-abortion-b...

It is somewhat disheartening to see so many intelligent people fall into this cult of personality thing. You idolize the man, regardless of his SHIFTING message. Rand Paul MAY be just playing "the game". However this all reminds me a lot of the Obama sycophants during the 2008 election. They were so sure that Obama was going to legalize marijuana and gay marriage, and end the wars, and close Guantanamo.... and it still hasn't happened. Just remember I said this... and if it turns out that I'm right... buy me a beer...

milquetoast

not milk toast lol.

I am not falling into the trap again

I see a lot of people in here saying he is the best chance to win. I would ask them what are we trying to win and how much are you willing to sacrifice to win now?

Yes Ron Paul did not get elected and many here equate that to a loss. I on the other hand have seen it as a giant win. Look at the impact that Ron Paul had on american politics. The only reason Rand has a chance to be a presidential candidate is because of Ron Paul.

So take a look at your priorities before you make this decision. The elections are a long ways away yet and there are plenty of other candidates that may not fall into the mainstream R or D that could have an impact like Ron Paul did.

Does anybody think..

If Rand is somehow elected president, he will have any power whatsoever? He won't be the one calling the shots, he will be in fact working for TPTB, otherwise they will not allow him to win. They will isolate him, tell him what he wants to hear, make decisions for the greater good, and Dr. Paul won't have the power to do a thing, because he sold it away.

Now I absolutely hope that I'm incorrect. I hope Rand gets elected and ends the fed, ends the militarism, brings us back to sound money, secures our liberties and right, return us to the rule of law... But I except it to be much more of the same.

It gets back to the idea that just because we get to vote for our ruler does not mean that we're free. No elected official, not even the president can save us. It's up to each and every one of us as individuals to beat this. Activism, agorism, tolerance, peace and understanding will get us there, not a new king.

the difference BIG difference between Ron and Rand in the GOP

Ron Paul had Neocons controlling the committees
Rand Paul as Liberty GOP controlling many committees.

Ron did not have the insiders.. Rand does.

Really now...



Hi there ((((Granger))))!!!

Some are down voting this?

Sometimes I feel the Granger could post " flowers are pretty and the sun is bright" and still get down voted.

What she said is the truth in my county GOP as well.
Because we followed what Ron Paul told us to do.

Seriously, down voting because she followed through with Dr. Paul's wishes?
Because her and myself included are seeing the rewards of Dr. Paul's plan?
Or is it her diligence and sacrifice to the cause of Liberty?

We are the face of Liberty and we are on the inside now.
Isn't a victory for Liberty what we all want?

Dr. Paul told us to take over the party.
Not so he could become President but to restore our Republic.
To secure a better future for all.
The game did not end after the last election.

If you are losing, that's too bad.
We are winning. And could use your help.

Exercise Liberty, or lose it.


America Rising.
The Constitution Stands.

"That the pen is mightier than the sword would be proven false; if I should take my sword and cut off the hand that holds the pen" - American Nomad

please show a source where ron paul

said to take over the GOP. he has said people should do what they want to spread the message. he has said that both parties are alike and really irrelevant.
http://www.dailypaul.com/253955/ron-paul-the-republican-part...

I wonder why...

My only option to vote on this thread is to give it a down vote?

I've noticed this on occasion with other threads too, does anybody else ever have this problem?

I Still Stand With RAND

I love Ron Paul because he said what was on his mind even though it would hurt him politically. His son is a little more eloquent with his words. Do you think Ron went around campaigning and building this giant delegate network to just drop out? He did it for his SON for 2016. They setup the network so he would only need to run the one time to get the nomination. Get Rand winning out of Iowa and New Hampshire and we have won the nomination. He is loved in the South and the cards will just fall in line. The cards will not fall in line if pisses off the entire bible belt before he get in front of them. I 100% support Rand and will max out my donations and work for the campaign. This is just me though. I want my choice to be a Giant Douche aka Hillary Clinton and Rand Paul in the general. I would love to vote for Gary Johnson like I did last year but I really don't want to have to "waste" my vote again.

How come more people who

How come more people who followed Paul do not get involved with Gary Johnson? Or do they?

many do

but not so much around here. i wondered about that myself and that could change if he decides to come back to the GOP in 2016 (and like ron he says it would mostly be to spread the libertarian message in the debates) more college kids, and a younger crowd are attracted to him for now (again like ron paul) like the crowds you saw at the NSA/Snowden demonstrations. the big push here is for rand, and i think it's great he's a senator, but more than that? not unless he becomes the peace candidate and dumps the war mongering evangelicals.

RAND is our best SHOT!

Hello, I was a State Delegate, here in Colorado in 2012(and '08). dkmeller1 --I too was initially upset with Rand for endorsing Romney -- but it was for good reason. Do you know how the Elite Oligarchy has us by the nads? The Elite (Bilderberg / CFR / Federal Reserve) control our currency, corporations, and nearly all our top Government officials. Rand knows this, and is working to correct this error in our society. I attended the Paulfest in Tampa in '12. Bob, a National Delegate got to sit on the plane next to Rand -- Rand IS THE REAL DEAL. Why did Rand Endorse Romney? Simply put, we had NO VENUE for Ron Paul to have his grand farewell. All venues were booked by the elite -- the SunDome, and the fairgrounds. Rand simply endorsed Romney, as a consession to get the 2 venues booked for his dad. Rand is our BEST dog in this hunt. Judge Napolatano, Corbett, Lew Rockwell, Justin Amash, and Ben Swann are also important parts of our Liberty movement, but, for today, Rand is the best shot we have at a Centralized message of Liberty / smaller Government / Abolishing the Fed / Limiting Drones / curtailing the Police State / stopping Corporate Fascism,and Getting Back to a Constitutional Republic.

Michael K-obzina
Republican District Captain 25h
3o3-933-2898
Give me Liberty, or Give me Death...
STOP Federal AND State Governments servitude to THE FED and Corp.s!

Ask Ron Paul how far not

Ask Ron Paul how far not playing the game gets you as far as getting the nomination. You have to quack like a duck in order for them to accept you into the group.

The Revolution Continues..

it always amazes me

when people try to down play ron's importance. we wouldn't even be having this discussion without ron paul. he has spread the libertarian message worldwide like no one else, and it continues to spread.

If Rand wins the Republican nomination in '16...

...then Ron gets a PRIME TIME, nationally televised speaking slot at the convention.

I support Rand.

coffee_sponge's picture

OK, so Rand isn't perfect.

Show me who is. On balance, Rand is the best we have in the Senate. He is working hard to move ideas of liberty into the mainstream discussion. In playing political chess, he has made mistakes in judgement, but he has gained some ground, in spite of being a freshman Senator in the minority party.

What I don't understand is why so much effort is being wasted to trash the best man we have currently down there. How many posts have the Rand naysayers posted on other forums attacking real problem politicians such as Graham, McCain, Rubio, Schumer, etc.

Let's be clear: the Karl Roves and the Neo-Con establishment stooges already are working to get another Romney on the Republican ticket in 2016. We already are in a world of a certain proverbial substance; can you imagine what our future will hold if the nominee in 2016 is Jeb Bush (~barf~), Chris Christy (~puke~), or maybe Rick Santorum (~up-chuck~).

If you have someone who is as good or better than Rand, and has at least as much of a credible snowball's chance, then tell us who you have in mind. (And no, as much as I love guys like Justin Amash, he could move up to Senator, but he has zero chance at President. Please be realistic.)

We need to coalesce around a candidate and back him or her to the hilt, or the establishment will shove another dirt bag down our throats.

A large ship doesn't turn on a dime after the rudder has shifted, and our decades-long slide into collectivism can't be undone by a Ron Paul in shining armor. (Ron has invested years in laying the educational groundwork that will facilitate the movement that will ultimately succeed. He had no illusions he was going to accomplish the restoration single-handedly.) Restoring our Constitutional Republic is a long process that includes winning the hearts and minds of our neighbors, not an over-night electoral win. It will take a few years. Ron Paul is too far ahead of his time for the public of today. Successfully electing Rand, who soft-sells much of the message, will represent a political earthquake as it is.

After over 40 years of involvement, no one is more anxious than I am to see the Liberty Movement finally triumphant. However, I realize that if we are to be successful, we have some years of hard work ahead of us, and looking for shortcuts and easy fixes will only put us behind.