-12 votes

I think I am done with Rand.

I just dont understand this fella anymore. Selling his soul to maybe be president, selling out Libertarians, sold out his own dad.....man...it just seems like babes for leaders.


We all have our opinions and I respect yours, but can you see where I am coming from? Flip flop, do anything to get votes kind of guy. being awake for a decade now, he just feels wrong to me....wrong!

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Pssst, here's a hint...

They used incrementalism on us. They incrementally stripped away all our freedom and liberty until we were left with none.

Rand Paul is doing the same thing back to them--in reverse!

1. He's fighting to legalize hemp for industrial purposes.

(Do you realize it's very challenging differentiating hemp from marijuana? Once that's implemented, that weed will be growing everywhere outside of official crops due to the wind. Remember it's called weed for a reason--it grows anywhere & everywhere. Enforcing marijuana drug laws will become virtually impossible!)

2. He wants to decriminalize marijuana possession.

Come on, man! Just connect the dots. Rand Paul is a genius. Listen to his first speech on the Senate floor. He basically wiped his feet on Henry Clay! You gotta love this guy!

"Clapper lied to us. Snowden told the truth." -Rand Paul


You'd think this was obvious.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

We all had high hopes for Rand Who? but he repeated dashes them.

Rand Who? wants to play the political game. He wants to show that he is a savvy political craftsman.

The fact is that Rand was swept into office on the coattails of the groundswell of support for the ideas and principles of Dr. Ron Paul.

Anyone with half of a functioning neuron can tell that Rand most certainly ain't Ron, and further, Rand Who? can pretend to be a libertarian when it suits him and he can go back to being a neocon hack when that suits him better.

In 2018 when Rand is well

In 2018 when Rand is well into his 1st term and has continued on with the same global agenda as Obama and Bush, where will you stand then? Will tou fall back into the polarizing left right paradigm like a good slave or will you call him out?

I think I'm done with people

I think I'm done with people who start threads like this.

No point in supporting him

No point in supporting him anymore.

Ventura 2012

Rand Paul for President 2016?

There is no definite answer to whether or not to advocate Rand Paul for a Presidential run in 2016. By any measure, he IS much better than e.g, Ted Cruz, Mario Rubio, and the other Republican clowns in eyeing the Presidential Palace in '16.

He also has serious flaws, in both politics, and for what we have seen, perhaps character. His endorsement of Romney over Ron Paul will continue to be a black mark as long as he remains in politics. This was even more galling when one considers that his father's campaign got nothing, not even a prime-time TV spot, from the "compormise".

If he retains his hold on principle to the extent that he has, he will continue to be a valuable and increasingly influential figure in the Senate. He HAS done some magnificent work there, just look at his leadership in the ongoing battle for the II Amendment. He has a long way to go supporting civil liberties (and would be more problematic on these issues with a Republican in the White House) but he is much better than most Senators, either Democrat or Republican!

Our support for him in the Senate should continue, while-of course-reminding him that he can, and should, do better. Maybe before November 2014, a consensus can evolve which can express how we can support him for President, if that is what we should do, or look elsewhere. We all must be aware that even if he moves "freedomward" in the Senate, the pressures, compromising factors, and even isolation from us will increase exponentially as he gets closer to the White House, and will be even worse after his inauguration. That may be a good reason why we should welcome him to remain a Senator, even if he becomes more like his father! We also should keep our eyes open for other candidates, both for President and US Senate.

Putting all of our eggs in one basket is NEVER a good idea!

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is not to be attacked successfully, it is to be defended badly". F. Bastiat

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, finally they attack you, and then you win"! Mohandas Gandhi

Downvoted dkmeller1 - Rand IS our best shot

Hello, I was a State Delegate, here in Colorado in 2012(and '08). dkmeller1 --I too was initially upset with Rand for endorsing Romney -- but it was for good reason. Do you know how the Elite Oligarchy has us by the nads? The Elite (Bilderberg / CFR / Federal Reserve) control our currency, corporations, and nearly all our top Government officials. Rand knows this, and is working to correct this error in our society. I attended the Paulfest in Tampa in '12. Bob, a National Delegate got to sit on the plane next to Rand -- Rand IS THE REAL DEAL. Why did Rand Endorse Romney? Simply put, we had NO VENUE for Ron Paul to have his grand farewell. All venues were booked by the elite -- the SunDome, and the fairgrounds. Rand simply endorsed Romney, as a consession to get the 2 venues booked for his dad. Rand is our BEST dog in this hunt. Judge Napolatano, Corbett, Lew Rockwell, Justin Amash, and Ben Swann are also important parts of our Liberty movement, but, for today, Rand is the best shot we have at a Centralized message of Liberty / smaller Government / Abolishing the Fed / Limiting Drones / curtailing the Police State / stopping Corporate Fascism,and Getting Back to a Constitutional Republic.

Michael K-obzina
Republican District Captain 25h
Give me Liberty, or Give me Death...
STOP Federal AND State Governments servitude to THE FED and Corp.s!

Maybe it was for venues

You are right about the GOP having us by the nads.. and while I KNEW that, that is not to say I KNEW how much. I didn't expect to have to sign loyalty oaths and will not commit pergury forms when I accepted my elected committee seat. When the Sec of State posted that Romney had the nomination in JUNE.. I wrote and asked how that could be when there had not been the GOP nomination (in Aug). I never did get an answer.

When Rand made his endorcement, it shocked me.. like many I felt completely slapped in the face, and angry.. and then it dawned on me.. "that loyalty oath I signed.." It then became clear to me that Rand was giving me a warning.. If I continued with my Ron Paul or none at all, the GOP would have nailed me on that oath and the will not commit pergury.. I would have not just been tossed from my elected seat, but could have been charged with pergury.

Rand's endorcement of Romney woke me up.. the GOP was playing hard ball and was about to eliminate many of us.. So I owe Rand for the wake up call. I'm STANDING WITH RAND.. and lucky me, so does my committee and many others as I see from the GOP in CA.

The bottom line is...

even though Rand shows fealty and obedience to his Zionist masters in his bid to become president, they (yes, the powerful Jews who control his fate) will never allow a "Paul" anywhere near the White House. So, I'm sorry to say this is an exercise in futility that I fear will end in tragedy if Rand should ever emerge as the frontrunner. Sorry to appear negative, but the truth isn't always pleasant.

Incredible shift in the votes on this thread.

Used to be in the black by 10 or so, now dipping into negative territory.

Are we seeing a Paul shift?

Defeat the panda-industrial complex

I am dusk icon. anagram me.

Please enlighten us as to a better candidate then?

You will throw away the strongest voice we have right now, without suggesting who is better?

This post does nothing but try and divide Liberty. Get on board or please just be quiet. You need to learn to work with people you don't agree with, when they are helping you achieve a common goal. When they do betray our trust, we will deal with it then. Until then, unless you have someone better, just accept the fact that you will be supporting those in the best position to achieve victory, or you will be selfish and judgmental and choose to do nothing, and help no one, but your own ego.

Get on board or just be

Get on board or just be quiet? Man, that's sounds a lot like what they've been telling us to do for some years now.
How about this, get on board if you want to, if not, feel free to dissent and speak your mind.

So that's the standard now

Rand doesn't have to be "good" for liberty..he just has to be "better" than the rest of the field. No thanks; I'll just stay home.

"I'll just stay [irrelevant]"

..there, fixed it for ya. ;-)

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

its 3 years before it

its 3 years before it happens, why cant we discuss the possibilities and go from there. There will be other candidates. How can one decide this far in advance? And if they dont get told they dont want to hear discussion?

You people can down vote all you want, it matters not, but you saying opposing views is not wanted, and that sounds exactly like a NEO CON

For Liberty!!!

I never said don't have an opposing view

I said this post has no positive points, only negative. If you want to attack the guy with the biggest chance, this early in the game, then you need to offer something else, a backup plan.

I said, because you brought nothing to the table other than slander, you should keep it to yourself unless you have another candidate. Believe it or not, he is building reputation with previously unreachable people, such as, my grandma and my aunts and uncles.

The only thing a post like this will do is:

1)fire people up against you, causing division amongst those in liberty

2)make people question whether or not Rand can handle it, and will also start to spread negative remarks

3)agree with you, and look for more ways to slander him

Do you see a win for liberty in your message?

Will there be more candidates? YES
Will they be as influential on the Old Guard? Probably Not

According to the polls in 2012, we control roughly 5million people, that's not nearly enough to win a majority, and while granted I think more would have voted if Ron Paul got the nomination, I still believe we cannot with WITHOUT the Neo Con vote.

Our message should be to bring in the Neocons and teach them about history, economics, law, liberty, and life. Another help is to teach democrats the same, and let them understand that even holding opposing views, still need to be within the bounds of the constitution and governmental powers.

if all its going to do is

if all its going to do is fire up people against me, well, then is this realy about liberty, is it about do what I say, not as I do?

Yeah, Im a skeptic, its not in my ability to bring a positive spin, to what I feel is negative about him. If this candidate is so good, why the shifting and flat out lying by him, compared to other things hes said before?

How is thtat any different than other sh&& candidates of the past?

Someone here is right about me though, I am one of those people like Ron Paul that dont compromise principals, to make sure the bigger dogs in the yard dont bite me. I am tthe voice standing there, calling a Pea a Pea, not a potato or water mellon ok. If me stating the obvious, and how that it concerns me that principals are del out just to win a little, well then the whole damn systems wrong and its believers are sort of tools.

Compromise yes, but never your pricipals, otherwise its just the same left/right fake paradigm that we already have and hate.

And with him chances positions dont bother you, it does me....it makes me wonder what he really stands for seeings he will tell any crowd anything to win support. A true friend of liberty will stand in the fast flowing current, not suck on its Neocon handlers.

sorry, but I call it like I see it.

Now, instead of attacking my stance, why dont someone just explain with some sort of factual knowledge, with some proof to back it up as to why I should trust someone, that acts like the rest of the OLD guard, especially more adn more daily?

Slinging mud is easy, its also a cop out.

For Liberty!!!

try answering the question

A lot of us agree that we prefer Ron to Rand. That said, go back to the original question asked of you. Yes, a lot can happen in the next three years, including Rand becoming more acceptable to you, but who are you looking at now as a possible presidential candidate?

For the sake of argument, let's assume that third party candidates have virtually no chance because they aren't let onto the debate stage and are otherwise frozen out of the political discussion. No Democrat who is both socially and economically a constitutional libertarian, if any even exist, is going to to be nominated. That leaves Republicans. It is unlikely that some Republican we have never heard of can win Iowa. That leaves Republicans with name recognition. To simplify the original question you were asked, which existing Republicans with name recognition has both a better voting record and chance of picking up the Republican nomination than Rand Paul?


Prefer Ron to Rand? Man, that's the understatement of the year.

Rand Paul is going to be our next President

I saw it the moment Romney lost the election (thankfully). You can either get on board or get out the way. Either way, it's GOING to happen.

I saw that he wouldn't

the moment he endorsed Romney.

This is getting boring!!

How many more times you going to keep posting this?? If you are done you are done, just go away already!

I posted this to have a

I posted this to have a discussion. who cares about pot, its not that, its flip flopping like everyone else. When Romney does it or Obama does it, everyone demonized it. Now that its someone you like, its wrong.

Whatever. open your mind and quit trying to put people in a box, like they did to all of us last time.

Instead of discussing anything, you claim all powerful knowledge of everything, and that your right, and there should be nothing else said. again whatever, your doing the exact same things to someone that isnt saying they are voting Rand because its too early.

You act as if you know everything, or for that matter, me and my motives. When I tell you why I posted, you pretend your the only sane voice in the world and everyone should quit saying anything against you.

too bad people, its a discussion.

I dont get the hypocrisy in you all. But again, this websites been planted with people that would love to rid all of opposing views, kind of like Obama does.

So, please refrain from telling me why I wrote this post. I probably been fighting for liberty longer than most most of you have known about the dirty lies we believed until we woke up, but am I sitting here doing any of this to you. How can we ever become part of main stream talking when you do exactly what you say the opposition does to us?

And you wonder why they call people kooks and fringe radicals, because you take any viewpoint you dont like and turn it into a mud slinging event, where if someone says something opposing to you, you throw a fit.

Well throw your fits and tell everyone here that the only voices allowed to speak are those that tow the line. bahh....what a crock of BS. I thought this place was for liberty, for whats right, not for just what you want.

For Liberty!!!

You must be done with Ron Paul as well

because Ron Paul says he and Rand think 99% alike:


Ron Paul says people like you are driving wedges in between him and Rand. Is this post just a wedge to divide the Liberty movement?

Surviving the killing fields of Minnesota

Todays brainwashing: GMO's are safe

oh about drones, about the

oh about drones, about the middle east, about pre emtive strikes? to name a few. about the drug war.?

Ron Paul has an integrity Rand does not posess, so of course Ron wont ever talk negative about his son. But Ron is also not sitting here telling us his secrets or personal beliefs either is he, he keeps it quiet. use some common sense.....Ron wont talk bad about his son, its against his beliefs.....but that does not mean Ron does not feel things other than he states in public.

you can talk all the smack you want, but I am doing exactly as Ron has always stated, you cant just jump into anything without thoroughly looking through its actions, history and everything.

Ron tells us to be careful of EVERYONE. You making a big stink about someone doing it is ridiculous.

For Liberty!!!


Why is Rand not a part of Ron's new Peace and Prosperity Institute?
That speaks volumes to me.

Because the Peace and Prosperity Institute...

...is about education, not politics.

If you're the politician seeking votes from people who don't agree with your ideology 100%, you don't tell the hard truths. You get another guy to tell the hard truths, and you don't associate with him. Ron is playing one role, Rand is playing another. They're tag-teaming this game. This is so damn obvious, we should be past it by now.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

what is more obvious

is that when Ron Paul speaks people are educated. When Ron Paul is interviewed people are educated. His young supporters read books on Austrian economics and by great libertarian thinkers. When Ron Paul debates people are educated. Ron Paul continues to live (not play) the role he was born for: truth, education, freedom, peace and prosperity. And guess what, the message continues to spread.

Now if you're simply a politician looking for votes, looking for deals, then i say you've made the devil's bargain, and to my way of thinking that's the worst bargain of all.

The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity not about politics? Evidently you haven't been checking in. There's a nice ongoing piece called NEOCON WATCH.

What you call "the devil's bargain"...

...that is, "looking for votes," is also called being successful in politics. Education is important, and political success is important. Neither will solve our problem on its own, we need both. And what Ron Paul's three campaigns taught us is that you can't do both at the same time. Why can't we allow some division of labor? Let Ron do the one, Rand the other.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."