-12 votes

I think I am done with Rand.

I just dont understand this fella anymore. Selling his soul to maybe be president, selling out Libertarians, sold out his own dad.....man...it just seems like babes for leaders.


We all have our opinions and I respect yours, but can you see where I am coming from? Flip flop, do anything to get votes kind of guy. being awake for a decade now, he just feels wrong to me....wrong!

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Whats to debate? Rand clearly has stated he's not a Libertarian.

"They thought all along that they could call me a libertarian and hang that label around my neck like an albatross, but I'm not a libertarian," -Rand Paul

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1972721,00....

“I’m not advocating everyone go out and run around with no clothes on and smoke pot,” he said. “I’m not a libertarian. I’m a libertarian Republican. I’m a constitutional conservative.”


“Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.” ― Mark Twain

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world."

Sometimes libertarians remind

Sometimes libertarians remind me of Rainman. They just get stuck and can't see any way out. Maybe it's because I've met Rand and heard him speak with people like us, EXCLUSIVELY, that I trust him 100%. Listening to him speak to a bunch of yokels in Iowa means nothing to me. We all have our own minds to make up, but I urge everyone to seriously consider the alternatives that will be offered before nestling back down into the comfort of an obscure purity of thought.

I haven't given up on Rand,

I haven't given up on Rand, but some things he says and does are disconcerting.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

I've said it before, but

I'll say it again. If it's between Rand and Hillary in '16, with no other hope in sight, I might vote for Rand, because he's worlds better than most. But I gotta agree with those of you who think Rand is either a fool or a liar. And those of you who think he's some political genius for lying about his positions... Well, I don't really know what to say to that. Why you would support such a thing is beyond me. Not to mention the fact that he's blatantly alienating libertarians. Rand himself has said over and over to judge him as his own man, yet there are so many supporters of his here who refuse to do so and have these delusions that he's a libertarian in wolf's clothing, which is kind of a contradiction-in-terms. Yeah, Ron stands with Rand in the specific issues Rand aligns with him, but Ron has also stood with democrats when it comes to something like foreign policy. Doesn't mean he agrees wholeheartedly with everything they say and do. If you wanna support Rand, cool. But some need to wake up to the fact that he, apparently now in his own words, is NOT a libertarian, and if he is, he wouldn't lie about it.

i said it before and i will

i said it before and i will say it again! even ron paul said him and rand are 99% alike!!!! ron knows his son better than any hatter on the internetz and the dailypaul. anyone saying ron does not know his own son is a troll or a damn fool period

░░░░░███████ ]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ----------------O

Ron knows his Son a lot better now and so does everyone else.

I wonder how much Ron felt he knew his son, when he herd that Rand had endorsed romney and was campaigning for him.

“Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.” ― Mark Twain

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world."

Rand Paul is not

Rand Paul is not compromising. He is making the same point his dad does. He does not support a federal legalization of drugs. He supports states rights. He wants to eliminate drug laws and has said many times that he will do everything he can to help non-violent drug offenders.

People need to not be so caught up in the semantics and the labels.

Ron Paul has almost the same stance, he just words it differently. We all fell in love with Ron because he attacks the establishment. He is not afraid to stand on principle and go after anyone who doesn't support liberty. Rand Paul is playing nice and slowly injecting liberty into the MSM. Look at his work with the drones. Look what he just said on hannity... he said that Obama is drunk on power with Benghazi, the IRS, the wiretapping, and the indefinite detention of American citizens.

I don't know if people are trolling us or if people don't pay close enough attention to semantics and liberty.

The "correct" libertarian approach on drugs is not to legalize drugs. That implies laws and regulation making it legal. The "correct" approach is to repeal drug laws and allow local communities to set their own laws if any. He is making these point from a federal position. I'm sure if he was a city council member, his position would be much different.

he said not to repeal drug

he said not to repeal drug laws, just make the penalty less. Here is my point on this : only 1 study cited by the feds from over 20 years ago, show pot is bad. over 50 independent studies from around the world show pot to have the ability to cure many ailments, safe to operate machinery with (same as any legal pill, each user is effected differently).

So many studies are done, have been done to debunk that garbage the feds still cite, and he refuses to recognize that alone. its bread and butter for local municipalities, more money for them feds, bah. hes a joke. He is playing the part well, to well, and i think hes gonna bite us in the butt.

I still remember under Bush telling everyone hes a crook. billions and billions of cash disappeared, laws went into effect, and now whos paying for it? we are.

Not to mention, I was right, the economy crashed under Bush. I still think he was a joke, and his family is a crime syndicate. who was in charge on the grassy nole? His daddy was. its all a sham and scam, and do blindly follow this same slight of hand bs from another guy is insane. I say demand better. Not accept less because its all we have to cling to.

For Liberty!!!

"Rand Paul is not

"Rand Paul is not compromising. He is making the same point his dad does. He does not support a federal legalization of drugs. He supports states rights."

He hasn't been making the states' rights argument in any of his recent interviews. He never mentions it and instead says that he's not in favor of changing any of the federal laws regarding legalization.

I think

what Rand Paul is doing is playing the game, not in a "do anything to get elected" sense, but in the sense he won't rock the boat when he doesn't have to.

The Constitution is clear on States rights and Rand Paul does say he's a Constitutional conservative. He's leaving it up to people to connect the dots. At the same time he isn't giving opponents attack targets to distract from what he is trying to do.

Come on

We need to be REALISTS. You do understand that we're WAY off (perhaps decades) from the truly free society that we seek. The question is what can we do NOW to further our goals and to me Rand is being particularly expert and astute about it.

What is your larger goal? To smoke weed or to ensure that those who do aren't criminalized... what's wrong with achieving the larger goal...

Going even further, what's important to you... e.g. Ending our financial ponzi scheme or drinking raw milk / smoking weed.... let's take a step by step approach knocking down the LARGEST issues first...

He's playing a masterful game of chess and I admire it.. of course you couldn't unless you realize the ultimate objective that Ron Paul laid out so eloquently in his campaign...

Here's the plan.. Ron Paul laid out the grand plan, what society and economy SHOULD be... Rand Paul's taking the calculated path needed to WIN and you have to trust that his ultimate goals are the same as his fathers...

Having said all that... Let's be Vigilant and watch his moves to see if he strays away from the PLAN in a deeply significant manner... until then he gets my benefit of the doubt.

Ron Paul 2012

actually as a person just

actually as a person just seeing the complete scam this government is, going for one big goal in 20 years is hardly capable of being done without dismantling it one piece at a time from us bottom feeder level up.

I dont care about weed. I truly could care less, but, more people die from cancer treatment from Big Pharma every year than they cure, but go south of the border to local clinics that were forced from this country because canabanoids, thc was curing patients of cnacer with a 90% success rate, or across the pond to where its used to treat cancer and cure people, where Americans are flocking to for treatment, adn you can see its deff a game being played on the USA people, not some strategy to undermine the establishment. its the same rules of the establishment. he gave a tiny concession of hope to people, while giving them no actual anything but lip service.

hes no Ron Paul, and if he lives forever, he will never be a Ron Paul. so many kids get Rons message, yet Rand has been around his dad all their lives, and still disagrees with basic liberty, including drones that can shoot an armed thug. That leads the way to allowing armed drones. NO, it cant be allowed. hes using the same stance as the neocons and you just cant see it.

Call names to anyone that thinks Rands a hack. Well, Rands a hack, and should be watched close, and scrutinized all the way to 2016. thats how runners are picked, by watching, taking notes and comparing.

Now should hillary be on the ticket in 2016, opposite Rand, I may be willing, but if ron is on the ticket to, its all Ron. Rand betrayed his father for popularity, even if there are claims that its just to get in the door. Ron has integrity, and would never talk down about his son, but you bet your sweet golden nickle that he was not happy/is not happy with his son. Principals.

For Liberty!!!

Except that it's not even a

Except that it's not even a "brilliant game." It's absolutely stupid. On marijuana he's taking a minority position that only 45% of the American people agree with. He's taking an extremely authoritarian position on this issue at exactly the wrong time, when public opinion has already changed in favor of marijuana legalization.

Well, basically he's either

Well, basically he's either lying to people in order to get elected President, or he has an absolutely terrible position and supports the war on drugs. Either way I don't like it at all and don't agree with it.

Fantastic! As you know, there


As you know, there are SOOOO many other candidates for president who are way better than Rand. I'm curious, who will you end up supporting?

you act as if its 2016. Are

you act as if its 2016. Are you baiting people in or giving each person time to vet people yet to come in the game? No. your saying nows the time to choose or were stupid. I am sorry, but thats not rational. And yeah Rubio is a Neocon, and rand seems to be one too.

For Liberty!!!

It's fair to say that I don't

It's fair to say that I don't believe there's anyone rock solid on the national platform. At least no one who's making waves like Rand Paul.

-he filabustered on drones
-he introduced audit the fed
-he chastised govt depts for regulating our toilets, lol!
-he took on the TSA personally!
-he's not backing down on Benghazi...I love it!
-he's advocating for hemp at the national AND state level AND he got McConnell to go along with it!

I like what I see in Rand. I don't see anyone else doing more than Rand so far. I'll keep an open mind BUT I don't expect someone to jump out of no where and have a longer list of pros than Rand Paul's. So I do feel good about Rand Paul at this point in time.

If you think Rand is a neocon, then I'm sure you've got other candidates lined up above him. You have tighter standards than me to be calling Rand a neocon. It's fair to say that I may be too trusting, but I'm willing to take my chances with Rand than anyone else. Though, I would prefer if Ron Paul gave it one last run in 2016.

1 st choice

No one.

If you put a gun to my head and made me vote I would write in Ron Paul in all categories.

Take a tip from me, Take all your money and give it all to charity.

No one?

I'd go with a 3rd party candidate if the dems and gop turn out to be garbage. Not participating is useless. Someone would have to put a gun to your head in order for you to write-in Ron Paul??? hmmmm, you hate him that much? jk : P

You really should be voting. The local elections are by far the most important!

Depends on which charity too. A lot of them are linked to the UN.

Yea No one

The system is corrupt/broken. My one vote is meaningless, even in local elections they are not decided by less than 100 votes(at least in the city i live).

Time spent voting is a complete waste, but that is my opinion. I hope more people just ignore the clowns, though.

Love is what I got
Within my reach
And the Sublime style's still straight from Long Beach
It all comes back to you, you'll finally get what you deserve
Try and test that you're bound to get served

"I hope more people just ignore the clowns, though."

Yea, lol, that's not going to happen. They'll keep voting, you'll keep living in the country ruled by the criminals they elect. Good plan..

And don't you waste more time here telling people politics is a waste of time than you'd waste voting?

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Voter turn out keeps dropping every year

How many liberty candidates are you gonna get elected?

Its down to what 57.5%?

My message is winning wehther you like it or Not.

The question is how low can it go before people decide the government isn't legit? What if only 40% of eligible voters voted. Could a sleaze bag in a suit still say he has a mandate from the public to do this or that?

"My message is winning wehther you like it or Not." - LOL

No, it isn't. The people who no longer vote are still obeying the government's laws, which the people who still vote determine. No matter how many times you click your heels this system is not going to just fade away. Your plan is to sit back and be a victim.

Now, look, if you're convinced it's hopeless, well okay, I can understand that. We certainly have long odds. But, don't delude yourself into thinking there's going to be some mass awakening whereby the police drop their guns and people just stop paying their taxes. If there's any hope at all, it lies in political action. The masses will not stop obeying the laws, the laws have to be changed.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

have you been to a concert lately?

Or seen how little tax apple pays?

People disobey laws all the time....there are so many to be broken.

Besides some laws are ok...Murder, Rape...those are ok laws to have. What laws would you like people to break?

How many waitress and Bar tenders pay taxes on their tips?

People need to disobey the dumb laws and they do. The sheriff near here was voted out after how he handled peaceful protesters. Yes I know what I just said...the V word, but the community would have reelected him had he not been a been a complete horses ass to girls holding flowers in a park. Sometimes you have to push the boundaries.

The point needs to be made that you have to get creative to wake people up. Running around and trying to convince people my greaseball politician is better than theirs isn't going to change crap. You have to get the masses to see the morons for what they are...crooks/thugs/thieves. Then you don't need to control party structure or find a liberty candidate...the politicians will magically see the light if the political winds shift in our favor.

Creating a better community without going to voting booth is entirely possible. Setting a business or non profit that addresses the needs and wants of your area is a lot of work, but it can be far more rewarding than the political game. I am in a big garden club and we break a few rules (but the city hasn't noticed yet).

political action isn't the only way to make difference...Just look at what Ron Paul is up to these days. I hear something "big" is coming later this summer! And I know its not another run for office.

ouch...that's a very pessimistic outlook : \

We've got a bunch of Ron Paulers everywhere getting on the establishment line up for all kinds of local offices including the school board, freeholder, town council, and even state legislature in numerous towns across the state. Many in my state are also running for GOP positions.

I think you're looking at this the WRONG WAY.

...don't be afraid at the quickness you get laid,
for your family get paid
it's the WRONG WAY!

what ever floats your boat

I think politics is a religion and we would all be healthier if we just gave it up cold turkey.

Glad you pick up on the sublime...I wasn't suggesting you give money to the UN.

LOL Wrongway...great little jab

Ok I will bite where are you and your merry band of Ron Paulers R3volting at? What city/county...whatever?

we're in jersey All I'm

we're in jersey

All I'm saying is your strategy leaves you hopeless with no possibility of changing anything. You can't just give up and not be involved in elections and the entire political process.

otherways to change the world with out polotics

Educate...I preach Peace anywhere anyone will listen.

The political process is broke. You got to change the hearts and minds before any politician worth a damn even runs.

See also Agorism

Agorism is a libertarian social philosophy that advocates the goal of the bringing about of a society in which all relations between people are voluntary exchanges by means of counter-economics, thus engaging in a manner with aspects of peaceful revolution,

Every transaction done outside of the system and out of the states reach is a victory. I have several victories a day. The bigger the black market or underground economy the better...that is the freed economy.

This battle for liberty has been going on for a long long time. Like since the first civilizations. You are right I have given up on the political process and I have given up on winning a giant victory for liberty overnight. I don't see it working sorry. But every time I trade in silver or barter...I win and the state loses.

See also

Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces

Etienne de la Boetie, The Politics of Obedience

La Boétie concludes his exhortation by assuring the masses that to overthrow the tyrant they need not act, nor shed their blood. They can do so "merely by willing to be free."

Murray N. Rothbard

Nothing wrong with that at all...

It's a great idea. In fact I like the bitcoin a lot for that purpose. I'm also big on gold & silver. Right now, I'm more bigger on gold. I like to trade gold for silver and silver for gold depending on the GSR ratio. It takes years but your stack gets bigger and bigger with every trade, again depending on the GSR. The only catch is that it takes many years and the best trading opportunities only come once every 2-3 yrs. I think we're coming up on one later in 2013. It's great trading outside of FRNs.

Again, people who took back their towns started their own LEGAL fiat currencies. I don't agree with it but at least they're not trading in FRNs and they're doing it openly and legally because they got their town council to pass it.

Tons you can accomplish locally! I always tell people it's a local battle that needs to be won. National politics is way out of my hands.

Pay attention to his voting

Pay attention to his voting record, not his rhetoric. He is positioning himself!

“How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!” – Samuel Adams