-12 votes

I think I am done with Rand.

I just dont understand this fella anymore. Selling his soul to maybe be president, selling out Libertarians, sold out his own dad.....man...it just seems like babes for leaders.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/13/rand-paul-assures-evangeli...

We all have our opinions and I respect yours, but can you see where I am coming from? Flip flop, do anything to get votes kind of guy. being awake for a decade now, he just feels wrong to me....wrong!



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Mike Riggs isn't the normal Paul Blogger on Reason

Brian Doherty is. You should see what you're "done" with before you make up your mind.

Please read from The American Conservative:

"Comments made in the context of buttering up religious-right leaders shouldn’t be overinterpreted, especially given the American Family Association’s signal that they wouldn’t fight Paul on the marijuana issue. And there’s reason to doubt the assumption that the social conservative position is to favor an endless, wasteful drug war that is anything but Christian. Among religious leaders there’s more consensus about its failure than ever before, but radicalism isn’t going to get them to warm up to reform.

It’s also worth mentioning Rand’s carte blanche states’ rights position isn’t very different from his father’s, who, in the GOP presidential debate, didn’t actually say he’d legalize heroin, but that he’d leave it to the states. Despite some sloppy AP reporting to the contrary, the younger Paul believes basically the same thing; it works as rhetorical cover. "

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/rand-paul-learns-to-l...

https://twitter.com/#!/Agonzo1

Rand lies to people

Don't believe Rand when he says stuff like this. He is clearly taking a neutral position here so that he doesn't get marginalized for his real views (it is probably safe to assume he has the same philosophy as the good doctor).

You guys need to stop taking him at his words and start supporting his strategy. Rand is clearly pandering to the voters so he can gain political power, which believe it or not, may be the only way to help the country at this point.

Rand Paul is probably in the best position out of anyone in the world to push the liberty agenda in a real and meaningful way. It's just disappointing that he has to lie to Americans to save them.

Stop attacking him and try to understand what he is doing. He is Ron Paul's son, and it is by no coincidence that he is in the senate and about to run for president. There is a big picture here that people on the DP need to grasp.

"We don't need a Department of Energy; we need a Department of Freedom" - RP
"We need to defend liberty.. and liberty!" - RP

What continues to amaze me...

...is that the rhetoric intended to fool mainstream voters into thinking Rand is less radical than his father fools some Paulites into believing the same thing. Ah well, I can only assume they anticipated this, and decided more votes would be gained than lost.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

its NOT attacking him. its a

its NOT attacking him. its a discussion of view by our own peers about the merits of a candidate. thats whats been snuffed out with Big media, real questions and concerns, not this BS crap they ask on TV.

I believe that saying we should not discuss concerns and other things about any possible candidate, is exactly what the establishment tried to do to us this last cycle. so lets not go that route. lets talk about it, and quit putting those with questions in a box saying that its damaging. Its actually the American way, has been our way of getting a good, loyal, person, so why demonize it? So much for liberty when one is demonized for asking questions and stating concerns and differences.

For Liberty!!!

Well said!!!

Well said!!! I couldn't agree with your statement more!

“Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.” ― Mark Twain

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world."

Dr Rand Paul is playing three

Dr Rand Paul is playing three level chess. I fully support every move he has made so far.

good move!

I'm glad you have decided to join the individuals with CONCRETE principles. It is good to have another libertarian back from crazy town (no offense, I too was a Rand hopeful for some time.) I only wish more people would recognize that POLITICIANS are not the answer. The only reason I was able to trust Ron Paul was because of his 30 years of ACTION, not words and games. He was truly a statesman, NOT a politician. Anyway, happy to hear it. I fear that many people, for some reason beyond me, will have to find out the hard way that Rand is no friend of liberty.

P.S. Don't allow the mob shame you back into it. Trust your instincts ;)

yeah exactly. Whats right is

yeah exactly. Whats right is right, how can you compromise on that? I dont feel you can. My father was my hero, died of Agent orange poisoning that killed him from 1965 to 1993. over those years I heard that man talk about the love for the country, how he would give his sight up again to defend it, but realize that morals are not at work in politics. You do whats right, you dont follow orders that are immoral and after enough time, you will never find yourself alone.

Dr Ron has stood against the establishment for many years. he never waivered in his effort to do the right thing. thats how his following grew, not from pussy footing around with hacks to let him in to their crumpet and tea extravaganza.

When I saw Dr Ron in ND, this past cycle, It was not because I thought he would say anything new, that he hasnt already said, but because he stood for something, saving our way of life, saving our freedoms, and never letting money and power change his mind. Ron Paul is my 2nd hero.

We as a society, even if a lot are still wearing those blinders to the reality of what we see, have to hold all accountable, at all times, for wavering in principal, leads to making backroom deals with the dirtiest of all politicians, which got us here in the first place.

Standing for right, standing for whats on the books (constitution and Bill of Rights) should not be a ok, ill concede to allow some liberties stripped, to get a tiny piece of something else, got us in this hell we find ourselves in.

And next cycle, ill vote and support and knock on doors, and spend my own money trying to change minds. hell I still do it. give away dvds of ron giving his message. its never over, unless you lay down and concede! Dont compromise, because the compromises are full of new invasions of liberty.

When you act like a Neocon, and talk like a neocon, and hang with neocons, and betray your own father to neocons, well, you are a neocon.

Actions are everything. I have no trust for a man supposed to love liberty, but only enjoys the liberties the elites have, that we are denied, while touting liberty, and constitution.

Everything inside me says, beware of dog, when I look at Rand.

For Liberty!!!

Wholly crap

we got 3 years to go before anyone needs to make up their mind about Rand. From your post it is obvious that you made up your mind about Rand and your just trying to influence others.

So if not backing Rand then who? Their is never going to be another Ron Paul, you need to get over it!

Surviving the killing fields of Minnesota

Todays brainwashing: GMO's are safe

ok so no ones allowed to

ok so no ones allowed to discuss concerns adn questions about a person whos in senate or congress because its trying to influence things? hahaha can these arguments get any more dumb?

do you understand science? ok, lets say someone has a theory...they discuss that theory with peers, who then go and check it out themselves, and sometime later all report back their own findings, to form a concensus of a sort to see how many came up with same conclusions and how many did not.

Same basic principal. Why is everyone making so big up in the air stink over 3 years before elections, discussing things about a possible candidate?

Thats how the USA always has come together or disavowed a potential candidate...by vetting them. We are each others peers, we are supposed to do this, so making it seem like I am doing something bad by discussion my opinions in this very early season is hardly destructive. Ron paul said it many times, we need more discussions, open and honest about everything, so the shady crap can be pushed out of it all.

For Liberty!!!

I already was.

I already was.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Why doesn't Rand just take

Why doesn't Rand just take the most radical, politically suicidal positions possible so that he has no chance at ever winning any future office, so that we'll like him again.

LOL

+1

Rand Paul still has a lot to prove

Rand Paul still has a lot to prove before any liberty-lover should put his/her faith in him.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.

www.simplefactsplainarguments.com

IMO the three legged stool is

IMO the three legged stool is finished. Caput. Broken into pieces that cannot be put back together.

Libertarians, neocons and evangelicals are not going to ever again come together to form a winning coalition, the 2008 RP campaign - the mass red pill awakening - saw to that.

Rand is fighting a losing battle trying to rebuild the Reagan coalition. It's not 1979. Libertarians are no longer willing to support conservatives like Rand who think that throwing them a little love while cozying up to the MIC and simultaneously kissing the rear ends of the anti self ownership holier than though crowd is gonna get their votes.

Not gonna happen, not in 2013.

Rand's strategy is a losing one, and I suppose that's just as well since Rand is no libertarian.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

well said!

The Republican party is a three-headed chimeira with the three heads all fighting each other for the same prey. The three heads need to separate and fight each other while on three different bodies.

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

Ron Paul says he continues to

Ron Paul says he continues to support his son and that they agree on most things.
With that said, do you honestly believe that Rand Paul doesnt at least consult with Ron Paul on various issues? It would not suprise me one bit if Ron Paul actual helps plan out some of Rand's moves. Now granted, obviously Rand does stuff on his own, but it is foolish to think that Ron Paul is completely out of the loop when it comes to what his son is up to.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

I'd be shocked to hear that

I'd be shocked to hear that Ron strategizes with Rand. My impression is that Rand disagrees not only with Ron's essential libertarian framework, but also with his political strategy.

Ron was all about speaking the truth, and educating. Rand is all about trying to rebuild the Reagan coalition for political power. Rand thinks he knows better than his Dad. Perhaps someday, after he has observed more, he will come to appreciate the wisdom of his father.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

Rand's ascent

Is planned and you better believe that the genius is involved. Most people just aren't observant... And the Paul's are exploiting this fact.

Does anyone have the full transcript

of the question and Rand's answer?

I love Ron and Rand. Ron was

I love Ron and Rand. Ron was held to being a footnote at the convention. Rand is trying to do more than that.

YAWWWWWWN

Why all the decision making? The election is 3 years away. Just watch what's happening and quit trying to play seer. xD

NEWS FLASH: Rand Paul is still not Ron Paul.

Rand isn't a libertarian in the Republican party, like his father was.
He is a Republican Party politician. I REPEAT. He is a Republican Party politician. What do politicians do? They lie for votes, they lie for money, the lie to be put in a position of power. Once they have that power, their actions quickly display their true agenda.

Obviously, a lot of us were drawn to Ron because of his honesty, integrity, and his ability to educate the masses with facts and history. He is incredible. He is a hero to many, he has inspired millions, and he was a beacon of light in a dark system. Ron Paul was defeated by a very corrupted system and he will never have the position of power he sought three times.

When I read this article, I see a politician making promises to a demographic for votes and for money. Remember earlier? Politicians lie. Why this topic? Why this demographic? This group on this issue REJECTED Ron's hardcore legalize-all position. WHAT IF Rand is lying to this demographic and says he's taken a 'middle of the road' stance, and not the hardcore position of his father? YES, NO SHIT, he does not have that integrity his father had. But please ask yourself, "Did that honesty work for Ron?" If his goal was to educate the masses, then yes. It worked incredibly. If his goal was to become POTUS, then no.. it failed him time and time again. That is HONEST, and absolutely nothing against Ron.

How did Rand lie?

What was Rand's exact quote on the drug war?

There's been so many responses here and yet there hasn't been a transcript of the full question and answer.

Rand doesn't personally support legalizing marijuana but he supports a state's right to do so. What exactly did he say in Iowa that contradicts this view?

Lie isn't really the right word..

Politicians exaggerate positions. And always in the favor of the demographic they're speaking with. It is the nature of politics!! I don't think Rand is a 'liar' in the sense that he is going to betray liberty. I think he will tell progressives that no cuts will be made to social security programs, old guard republicans that he won't touch defense spending, evangelicals that he doesn't support legalizing all drugs, etc.

Each to his Own

I am with Rand all the way! I take certain things he says without affront, as I also as Rand states "consider myself to be a libertarian Republican, I’m a constitutional conservative.” A Republican in the true sense of the word, please bear that in mind. I don't cater that much to the Republican party as it stands today however.

Know of anybody else who has the balls to say Obama is working with ‘anti-American globalists plot[ting] against our Constitution? Or tell Hillary Clinton what no one else will? Or state how the UN is trying to get our guns as well? I can go on, but if you haven't figured out whose side Rand is on by now, I think you are done with Rand and God knows who you think might do better!!

AAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Why are so many so many so blinded???!!! Ron Paul was trying to change minds, Rand Paul is trying to defeat the most powerful, insidious and destructive political machine in recorded history. He is making strides, and maintaining a high degree of consistency, albeit not so boldly as his father.

You are bitching about the man who is going to bring down the global Tammany Hall! Why? Because he is doing it effectively? Can you honestly reference instances where Rand Scorned liberty? Would Ron have won if Rand didn't endorse Romney? What is it, the Gitmo thing? The abortion amendment? What's wrong with that? It wouldn't be unconstitutional, would it?

I SWEAR!!!! LET THE MAN CHAMPION LIBERTY!!!! WHY IS RAND PAUL THE ONLY LIBERTARIAN ANYONE EVER BITCHES ABOUT ON THIS SITE???!!! STOP HOLDING HIS FATHER AGAINST HIM!!!!

Séamusín

Yup

Now that Rand is courting Evangelicals and pro-drug war, licking Israel's private parts, and OK with drones being used against civilians in the US (on top of endorsing Neocon evildoer Romney) - In the sense of what he "says" and that he is a "libertarian", he is now politically and exactly equal in "liberty" rhetoric to Rick Perry, Sarah Palin, and Herman Cain.

Got it, now, Rand Paul = a globalist hack, a retarded soccer mom that can't understand the game of soccer, and a former FED Director who ran for president as a joke.

Awesome.....

Yeah - what is wrong with you people?

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

I keep seeing the drone flip

I keep seeing the drone flip flop here, and I'd like to say something that you may not have thought of...

"If someone leaves a liquor store with $50 they stole, etc etc etc. I don't care how you kill him, gun, drone, drive over him with a tank." [ad lib quote]

That doesn't mean he supports drones, doesn't mean he supports tanks in the street [he didn't say that part, this is an example] and I'm sure he doesn't support just killing the guy with a gun.

Maybe I missed the next news update where he said he supported drones, but even I am guilty of not always explaining myself well. Example:

I did a post about Alex Jones and AJ haters, which I claimed to be one of, but I don't hate AJ, I don't like his work. Out of Context.

Maybe Rand was out of context or just isn't that good at this game yet on interviews. I don't know. I'm not real happy with Rand, but I don't know him personally either. At least I gotta see Ron Paul in person, and hear him speak. Not so with his son.

Then again, they say intelligence/strength or whatever skips a generation. Let's hope it didn't!

Blah.

What exactly did Rand say

about the drug war?

Is there video of the full question and answer or is the report of what Rand said all we have?

Rand is on the record of letting states decide to legalize marijuana so I'd be interested to hear Rand's remarks in Iowa.

Well

He says things that a republican would say, because he is a republican.
He lies like a politician because he is a politician.
This is politics as usual.

As far as Rand and other politicians go, I pay attention more to what they do, not what they say.

Rand courting evangelical republican base is an tell sign that he plans on running in 2016.

I still like Rand, but like he said, he's not his father.