-12 votes

I think I am done with Rand.

I just dont understand this fella anymore. Selling his soul to maybe be president, selling out Libertarians, sold out his own dad.....man...it just seems like babes for leaders.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/13/rand-paul-assures-evangeli...

We all have our opinions and I respect yours, but can you see where I am coming from? Flip flop, do anything to get votes kind of guy. being awake for a decade now, he just feels wrong to me....wrong!



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I think it's awesome!

How foolish is it to think that the public is going to support a commander in chief that wants to legalize LSD, heroine, cocaine, etc.? This is a reasonable approach. Legalize mary jane, and work to make the onerous penalties and injustices surrounding use offenses lower. People will get behind that, he won't sound "nuts" and he'll be electable. And then, instead of a neocon, we have someone who at least wants a smaller government. Win-win and best possible outcome, I say.

Frankly, I am a registered libertarian and I wouldn't support legalizing most of those things. If it's a loser issue with half the libertarians, extremism on this subject plays even worse with mainstream Murrica.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Well

The illicit drug market is a trillion dollar black market, possibly multi-trillion. Conservative estimate is $500B and that is an extremely low ball figure. Enforcement costs hundreds of billions. And in reality, if you want to go chase the dragon, do blow, or smoke some weed, you can find it EVERYWHERE. The problem is that IT IS DANGEROUS to people who are not involved in it. Prohibition of alcohol resulted in the creation of AL CAPONE and millions of copycats. It also resulted in the creation of the FBI. What do you think the DRUG WAR has done to this country? It has destroyed entire inner cities. It has crippled small towns. And it has created the largest non-violent prison population, not just per capita, but actually the largest, in the entire world. The key here is NON-VIOLENT. What do these people do in jail? They become slave workers. They make sneakers. Designer clothes. If you have a sickness or an addiction, treat it as such. Don't lock someone in a shoe box and call it anything else.

In the real world, the only reason people aren't all doing heroin or snorting cocaine is because they aren't cattle that need to be herded around. They know the effects. The real tragedy is the legalized drug industry turning people into zombified killers on a .5-1% bell curve with SSRIs that have no long-term human case studies. They take a rat brain's neurons and compare it with yours.

The stats agree, the Drug War has no effect on addiction rates.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

How MDMA (ectasy) was classified Schedule 1 Controlled Substance

Here's some excerpts from further research I did several years ago. How many people have died from MDMA? Ever? Approximately 1 person.

...“A study in nonhuman primates showed that exposure to MDMA for only 4 days caused damage to serotonin nerve terminals that was evident 6 to 7 years later.”, The DEA’s source for most of this information is the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), an organization which became part of the United States Department of Health and Human Services in 1992. This can be hardly construed as an independent source, and interestingly enough, NIDA receives a budget of over $1 billion dollars from the U.S. government. In 2001, NIDA claimed to support “…more than 85 percent of the world's research on the health aspects of drug abuse and addiction.” (Scientific Conference Focuses On Ecstasy (MDMA), NIDA Website). Simultaneously, the United States government prohibits the sale and possession of certain drugs based on unscientific grounds, and also funds most of the world’s research on drug abuse. The DEA and NIDA’s claim about nonhuman primates having serotonin nerve damage came from a John Hopkins research study performed in 1992 by Dr. George Ricaurte which was patently false. The paper was titled, “Severe dopaminergic neurotoxicity in primates after a common recreational dose regimen of MDMA”. The primates were accidentally injected with methamphetamine and the entire paper on the study was later retracted. This created quite the scandal and may have led to more anti-drug laws being passed. The DEA, however, continues to fund Ricaurte and has not removed the information from their statistics; displaying it affirmatively on the DEA website. It can actually be said that the DEA and NIDA are completely misleading the public on MDMA. Yet according to the DEA, “In response to the Ecstasy Anti-Proliferation Act of 2000, the U.S. Sentencing Commission increased the guideline sentence for trafficking MDMA. The new amendment, enacted on November 1, 2001, increases the sentence for trafficking 800 MDMA pills by 300%, from 15 months to 5 years. It also increases the penalty for trafficking 8,000 pills by nearly 200%, from 41 months to 10 years.” This is not a fair penalty and in fact constitutes an injustice, since statistics have established a government bias, and also show that MDMA is a mild party drug with no substantiated health effects. A study again funded by NIDA and authored by George S. Yacoubian reports on prevalence of the drug and states that its use is increasing among teens. This is in contradiction to the DEA website which says its use is decreasing. Furthermore, the study suggests more research is needed, but that it can only be done on teens “Because ecstasy’s availability has increased only recently, older respondents may not have had the drug as an option when they first experimented with alcohol and tobacco.”

In conclusion, it is alarmingly evident that the risk of MDMA has been overstated and its classification as Schedule I by the DEA was very likely based on unsubstantiated rumors. This has serious and catastrophic consequences for those arrested, since an arrest on a drug charge will often lead to harsh social and financial consequences which will devastate the person’s life far greater than MDMA use. There is a strong case against the incarceration of people arrested for MDMA possession and sale, since they have lost their freedom over this issue. Sadly, the ban of MDMA has left its use in psychology overlooked. In a book published by Ralph Metzner, which contains the writings of MDMA users from different walks of life, an anonymous 35-year old female rape victim wrote about using the drug to remember the details of her attack. She wrote, “It was from these episodes that the event was reconstructed for use by the police.“...

Erowid. Major Error in Ecstasy Research: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_research2.shtml

Drugs: education, prevention and policy, Vol. 10, No. 1, 2003. Correlates of ecstasy use among high school seniors surveyed through Monitoring the Future.

NIDA. Scientific Conference Focuses On Ecstasy (MDMA). http://www.drugabuse.gov/MedAdv/01/NR7-19.html

Metzner, Ralph. Through The Gateway of the Heart. I Can Now Move Through The Trauma. http://www.maps.org/gateway/i_can_now_move_through_the_traum...

Wikipedia. Retracted article on neurotoxicity of ecstasy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retracted_article_on_neurotoxic...

But he

Is saying to the evangelicals that he is not for Marijuana. I am getting tired of people being thrown in jail for some pot! While I get to see a bunch of a maniacs a day drinking.

yeah but

rand is telling you to get after it hoss. we legalized here in co and rand supports our states rights. i agree rand needs to "evolve" on the marijuana question in regards to his personal vote in Kentucky. he supports mmj so i think he will when the time is right. he is pretty misinformed on cannabis so there is work to be done.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

He

smoked lots of weed in college. He even did a prank on a girl and made her do it or something like that.

I am pretty sure he is pro marijuana. He is just waiting for the right time. I agree,

Really?

Refusing to initiate violence against other people because of what they choose to put it their own body is "extreme"?

How can you call yourself a libertarian, if you can't even agree with the sole prerequisite to being a libertarian, adherence to the the Non-Aggression Principle?

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

I'd probably not be a great

I'd probably not be a great Catholic...maybe I am a "cafeteria libertarian", or maybe, just maybe, I've got it right and just am not all dorked out on the latest so-called "libertarian trends" that the kiddies like to follow, and maybe, I care enough about the Constitution to want someone in office who gets it. If you don't care about that, then just get your panties all wadded up because Rand didn't read the speech you wanted for him, stay on the sidelines in the next election, and then wonder what happened.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

You either adhere to the Non-Aggression Principle or you do not.

If you do you are a libertarian, if you do not then you are not a libertarian.

The only prerequisite to being a libertarian is adherence to the Non-Aggression Principle.

If you can't satisfy this sole requirement, then you are not a libertarian.

End of story.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

By that definition Ron is not a libertarian either

.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Ron Paul is an adherent of the Non-Aggresion Principle.

"that definition" does not disqualify him.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

No, he is not.

He advocates limited government, which has to be funded by taxes, and all taxation, however minimal, violates the NAP.

Note that I'm not criticizing Ron, I'm criticizing your definition of
"libertarian," which is so narrow as to exclude both the leader and the majority of the members of this movement. By your definition, only the anarcho-capitalists would be libertarians.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Minarchists although inconsistent in application of the NAP...

are still libertarians as long as they accept the Non-Aggression Principle.

Ron Paul accepts it: "The idealism of non-aggression and rejecting all offensive use of force should be tried. The idealism of government sanctioned violence has been abused throughout history and is the primary source of poverty and war. The theory of a society being based on individual freedom has been around for a long time. It’s time to take a bold step and actually permit it by advancing this cause, rather than taking a step backwards as some would like us to do."

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

To accept the NAP...

...means to accept it without exception.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

fundamentalism is for small minds

and you are free to practice your religion of the non-aggression principle. Frankly, I hate labels anyway, so if some dork on the internet thinks that makes me "not a libertarian" then so be it. Maybe I'll throw a party. I do know that I am a (large L) Libertarian in terms of my registration, voting in the last Presidential election, support for Ron Paul and libertarian economic and political ideals. But youre not going to find everyone agreeing with you on everything, so take a chill and lighten up, Francis.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Wow

The NAP is "fundamentalism", the "latest trend"?? YOU are what is wrong with the LP. Infiltrating change agents.

oh that again

how crazy are you, and is this board, when anyone who disagrees with anything is a secret gubmint agent? Get real.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

How is it "crazy"

to agree with a previous poster who has discerned that you do not hold libertarian beliefs, yet, inexplicably (ha!) call your self libertarian? Not only do you try to marginalize me by calling me "crazy" (a favorite leftist Delphi technique)you try to marginalize the NAP, calling it "fundamentalist" (and only lefties consider fundamentalism evil). Your posting is classic change agentry. Join collectives and sway them to your own purposes. It's why you love groups and organizations.

infiltrating change agent?

Oh come on :rolleyes:

I love groups and organizations? I wasn;t aware of that. but thanks for your opinion, not

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

its just to early to bank on

its just to early to bank on Rand with some things going on. its going to take more time to see what he really does before I can put trust in anything he says. You cant claim to be a constitutionalists if you take up the neocon positions. people see that, and, and remember thats how most of this came about, lip service that never panned out.

like I said, I am not against Rand, I am not for Rand, I am waiting for a while to see where hes going with this stuff. But its frightening to see him hooking his saftey pin to the neocon establishment. And to bet on this horse, way before you see the race and other horses is pretty foolish. Like those that kept saying vote Romney so Obama dont get re elected. yeah lets vote for the guy that tried to shut us all out, who got rules changed to shut us out. hell no, I wont vote for a lesser evil, ill stand up and call them both evil, and look for a better alternative. But wont give an ounce of morals to have a tiny victory.

For Liberty!!!

Yeah,

...cause those other "horses" are going to be so appealing. riggghhht

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Forgive me, oh wise one....

for having a moral compass and believing it to be wrong to initiate violence against peaceful people for what they choose to put in their own bodies.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

I don't see where

anyone disagreed with that. I'm for maximizing the freedom in our society. Rand Paul, a move towards more states' rights, and legalization of marijuana are as far as that goes.

Debating about purism is great for kiddies on the internet/ armchair theorists/ what people used to call "pipe smokers" but I live in the real world.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

"I don't see where anyone disagreed with that."

"I wouldn't support legalizing most of those things."

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

virtually no one agrees with you

So, you really see someone getting elected who favors legalizing LSD and cocaine?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Rriiighhht....

How many people AGREE with Josh reflect the truth of his position.....NOT!
NEWSFLASH, even if NO ONE "agreed" with Josh on this forum it does not change the truth of his principles in the least. What does it matter WHO is elected if we end up with just another legalized mafiosi running protection for "legal" drugs and the favored illegal drug kingpins?
True libertarians understand that the "drug war" is just an excuse to control and loot us and feed the incarceration industry. Educating people is the answer, and more people agree with Josh than you claim.

way to miss the point

the "virtually no one" who I referred to was not the members of this forum - many of whom may not vote. I was referring to the voting populace. Please re-read with that comprehension in mind.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

I can only

comprehend what is written, not your lame-o late explanations.

excuse me

while I take a dump

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein