1 vote

What Discredits Libertarianism More?

Posted under: Daily Paul Liberty Forum which states, "The DP's main discussion board. For anything and everything relating to Dr. Ron Paul, his Campaign for Liberty, and the Liberty / Freedom movement.

What is more discrediting to Libertarianism?

Crazy Conspiracy Theories?
(Missiles hitting fertilizer plants and "Crisis Actors")

or...

Promotion of Liberty while at the same time promoting/enforcing censorship?
(Private property vs. Free Speech, Regulated News[Blaze, RedState] vs. Open Source Forums/Blogs)

or...

People think we are crazy anyways, so who cares what outsiders think?

Discuss below.

The point of this, is not to cause division. But to come to an accord, as a community.



Trending on the Web

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

the movement so often spake of

is no movement at all.

movement implies leaders.
it implies agreement.
it implies organization.

this is the beginning of a mass realization that the state is either largely or entirely illegitimate. and as people tend to seek others with the same views it leads them to the same places. which can really give the feeling that it is a movement, even though it is not.

it COULD become a movement, but at this point it's still entirely disjointed with a handful of people doing a large majority of the real heavy lifting.

grab a beer. don't worry about shit so much.

create an actual movement, then we can have these never ending discussion lol.

Interesting

Good points. Title changed

My Political Awakening: I Wanted to Change the World...
I am NOT Anti-America. America is Anti-Me - Lowkey
How to Handle POLICE STATE Encounters

These demoralizing threads

These demoralizing threads are started by government employees that drive away liberty minded people from Daily Paul.

There should be specific categories for threads that demoralize DP users and for Anti-Rand Paul topics. If those topics have anything constructive to say they will appear in Active forum topics.

Fuck You MikeFWT210.

Thanks for your input Michaelwiseguy :)

Much love brother...

My Political Awakening: I Wanted to Change the World...
I am NOT Anti-America. America is Anti-Me - Lowkey
How to Handle POLICE STATE Encounters

Bull

What is it with people using this rationale? "Someone posted something I don't agree with...THEY MUST WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT!!!1" You realize that it's posts like yours that reenforce negative stereotypes many people have about "conspiracy theorists", right? I love how critical thought and the oft-discussed "search for truth" fly right out the window whenever this comes up (a lot).

People like you and sharkhearted sing that song so often that it's become little more than an alternative way of saying "I disagree with you!" *sticks fingers in ears* "LA-LA-LA-LA!"

It's no different than when neocons accuse everyone who disagrees with them of being communists, or when progressives automatically label any and all dissenting opinions as being voiced by "racists".

The "divide" complaint is another one. What, is everyone here supposed to agree on everything? So much for that whole "individualism" thing, eh?

Censorship is only one kind of hypocrisy mentioned in the OP, and the kind you're displaying is another.

tl;dr: qq moar

A signature used to be here!

Because it's constant

Because it's constant incessant mind numbing topics like this that appear constantly on DP these days. It's done on purpose to discredit every other thing we do.

If you must know...

I posted this thread after seeing DP user skippy d was banned. I've reworded some things because my "heat-of-the-moment" post wasn't properly worded for my intentions.

And just so YOU know :)

I've been offline all day. The last time I saw this post was this morning, and it was at -2. I was going to let this thread die into the land of forgotten posts. YOUR views and comment(s) bumped this thread.

This debate has been going on in multiple threads. Another intention I had was to keep it here under ONE thread, so the other ones wouldn't get "bumped incessantly".

Please also note, that the only 2 people here that I have "attacked" are Jon and Delysid. With Jon, I have been intentionally stirring up shit , because I am against the censorship (I also called him a coward, for his moderation of content). So what if things don't add up for me about Bauman. That's my opinion. If users weren't being banned/half-banned and threads weren't constantly being 403'd, I would have let it go. Childish? Maybe. But I love this site, and I don't like the current trends I've seen here, ie censorship. With Delysid, he didn't like my credentials as someone in the medical field, so I said "if MY opinions are invalid, then so should the opinions of a DENTIST". Again, Childish? Maybe...

But I have not cursed at anybody here. I'm not shouting down anybody who disagrees with me in discussion. I've posted questions and have been called "stupid", "mentally ill", "narcissistic", "nutter", etc. Some directed right at me, others indirectly. Oh and now that you mention it, I guess I've been called a "government employee" as well.

You don't have to like me bro. I'm here for the same reasons you are. You don't have to like my thoughts. You don't have to like my content. You don't have to like my opinions. That's fine with me. Click on "MikeFWT210" and click "Block". My content won't show up for you anymore. It's simple.

A lot of good people have been banned over this issue. Users with WAAAAY more time here than I do, have had posting privileges removed because of ONE Boston Post. I've had 4 of my posts removed and my posting privileges are still active and I have not been banned (I don't know why, you'll have to ask a mod). I've only been here a year.

Good people have been muzzled and SOMEBODY needs to stand up for them. I didn't want it to be me, but since no one else was taking the reins, I did.

Have a good day, sir.

My Political Awakening: I Wanted to Change the World...
I am NOT Anti-America. America is Anti-Me - Lowkey
How to Handle POLICE STATE Encounters

The answer lies

In the question " is a person who can not govern their own self, truly to be considered for being ungoverned by others ? "
I know I ask the hardest thing of you my fellows, but I stand firm, it is paramount in that if we are to actually have a limited government that that government we create be suitable to govern the manner of persons who we are. For if we be not worthy for lack of self control, then what are we in actuality creating here..... Anarchy?
If this be true then, count me out, for my God is not the author of confusion, nor do I lightly partake of those who play in such a sand box.
But I have higher expectations for I have read the hearts of you as you post, I know we are disciplined by whatever spirit guides us.
Therefore to answer your question, which is no question at all: both are and are not, it begins and ends at the tip of each of our own tongues.

Two more question: What is a conspiracy ?
And: In what manner do you wish to be spoken too, in such a way should you not also speak to others then?

God Bless
Stēkō Perrēsia

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

No.7's picture

Learning to respect private property would go a long way

Does an individual have the right to yell fire in a crowded theatre?
Can an individual threaten others with violence?
Are individuals allowed to claim other's work as their own?
Are individuals allowed to claim proof of truth to absurd false truths?
Should Nystrom allow 'how to make bomb' threads or threads showing child porn?
How far does the freedom of speech, expression, and press go?

The freedom of speech isn't free and it shouldn't be taken for granted or abused.

This forum provides an excellent community to discuss almost any fringe issue there is. Allowing fringe discussion online is a huge liability because there are certain things you can't say. Once those lines are crossed the person crossing the line becomes a liability to the entire community. You never know when a crazy redneck or shill infiltrator might try to plan a terrorist attack on a board that allows for completely free discussion. Something like that is all it takes to dismantle an online community and it could easily happen here.

Nystrom and the mods cleaning house on the 'victims are actors' meme was not tyrannical censorship but rather a means of culling the BS and expunging liabilities.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

What's most divisive? People

What's most divisive?

People who disrespect the right of the site owner to police the contents of what people post on his site.

A fundamental pillar of libertarianism is the respect of property rights. People who complain about being censored here do a disservice to the movement. Their complaints are childish and embarrassing.

If you don't like how the mods run the site then go start your own. That's how free market capitalism works.

Please stop posting your whines here. Not only does it embarrass you, it detracts from the high level of discourse.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

NEITHER!

NEITHER!

I think that the conspiracies

I think that the conspiracies and the Rand Paul 2016 are two separate issues.

I feel like a lot of the conspiracy theorists are the same ones who get upset with Rand Paul over media twisted news stories that try and turn his base against him. He is clearly getting attacked for saying positions that he doesn't say. Remember Ron said he and Rand are 99% the same. You don't think that

Ron had the conspiracy and the principled libertarian libertarian republican votes while Rand is trying to make all of the establishment dumb republican voters become principled voters. When he speaks, he never technically loses the principles of liberty. He, using brilliantly crafted rhetoric, says things with the furthest logical extensions possible in order to speak "their language."

In a way, it seems that the conspiracy vote may not be falling in line for Rand, although its super early on and hard to tell.

I just wish people would realize the brilliance of the work he has done infusing liberty into the main stream.

Rand Paul has been all over the news. I saw him on TV 3 times today. Twice on fox and once on CNN after CNN was talking positively about how strong the teaparty is.

I think many people are turned off to Rand in part because he isn't so combative and doesn't yell at evil to their faces. He will say the party line republican talking points, at least the ones that fit with liberty, then he throw in a libertarian nugget like the nonaggression principle or unintended consequences of unconstitutionally going into Lyba to overthrow a government.

What other prominent Republican, and yes Rand Paul is becoming one of the leaders of the GOP... what other prominent member is talking about auditing the IRS, the Pentagon, pardoning non-violent drug offenders, making congress declare war, shrinking the military, cutting taxes, auditing the fed, etc etc etc etc etc

Rand Paul is the greatest shot we have since Ron Paul and before him Thomas Jefferson, and people don't want to see it!

The movement does not have to be divided. We all supported Ron Paul passionately and we should focus our energy not on whether boston was a false flag or not, but rather how we can work to Rand Paul elected and promote liberty and make it a prominent issue again.

Rand?

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/3054303

My Political Awakening: I Wanted to Change the World...
I am NOT Anti-America. America is Anti-Me - Lowkey
How to Handle POLICE STATE Encounters

Why are government employees

Why are government employees allowed to post these types of threads constantly on Daily Paul?

Michael Nystrom should do a mass mailing to the registered users of Daily Paul to invite them all to participate for one week adding comments to drive the troll infestation away.

The Zero Hedge community has their trolling under control with their format. We should take a lesson from them.

A lot of the threads appearing on Daily Paul is in the category of psychological warfare with certain of those threads being bumped to the top constantly and I'm getting pretty pissed off at it.

I can see both sides

While I am against the censorship here, I can see the other side's arguments as well.

A negative connotation is associated with "Conspiracy Theorizing".

When someone asks questions, good OR bad, and starts to hit a nerve, the ad hominem attack of, "You're just a conspiracy theorist" might emerge. A "poisoning of the well" occurs in which the attacker tries to discredit anything the "theorist" has to say by negatively implying that the "theorist" is crazy.

When "Conspiracy Theorists" emerge on a site like this. People become afraid of what it might do to the image of the Liberty/Freedom Movement as a whole. I get it.

My Political Awakening: I Wanted to Change the World...
I am NOT Anti-America. America is Anti-Me - Lowkey
How to Handle POLICE STATE Encounters

No.7's picture

Since when are conspiracy theories not allowed on the DP????

Never, only certain irrefutable disinformation BS theories aren't allowed on the DP. Why is this so hard to understand?

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

In defense of Censorship

Those on this side of the argument say that the Daily Paul is private property.

They also say that we are guests here at Michael's site, an extension of his home.

Michael has made comments saying that we doesn't want "actor" hoax threads here.

Fair enough.

My Political Awakening: I Wanted to Change the World...
I am NOT Anti-America. America is Anti-Me - Lowkey
How to Handle POLICE STATE Encounters

Ok...

On private property..

The message of individual liberty teaches us that we have the option to vote with our pocketbooks and to also vote with our feet. I, personally, don't want to leave. But I will leave if censorship continues and users continue to be banned. I love the DailyPaul, and I don't want to see people leave in droves and contributions/support dry up.

While this site IS Michael's property, an extension of his home, AND we all are guests here, WE are also helping to pay the site's "mortgage".

Each post contains a Disclaimer: "Content on the Daily Paul is the opinion of the original poster, not necessarily of the Daily Paul, its owner, moderators."

If content on the DP is the opinion of the OP, not necessarily of the DP itself, its owner, and mods then why the need for banning certain posts/comments/users?

My Political Awakening: I Wanted to Change the World...
I am NOT Anti-America. America is Anti-Me - Lowkey
How to Handle POLICE STATE Encounters

Ok...

On the disclaimer...

The disclaimer also states:

"The Daily Paul reserves the right to make changes to, corrections and/or remove entirely at any time posts made on this website without notice."

------

From the Full Disclaimer:

The content of all posts and comments on the Daily Paul represent the opinions of the original poster, and are not endorsed, approved, or otherwise representative of the opinions of the Daily Paul, its owner, site moderators or Ron or Rand Paul. Additionally, posts on this website are the opinion of the specific author and are not statements of advice, opinion, or factual information on behalf of the owner or administration of the Daily Paul. This site may contain adult language and adult concepts. If you are offended by such content, or feel you may be offended by such content, point your browser to a different site IMMEDIATELY. If there is an emergency, please dial 911.

Readers of the Daily Paul are responsible for their own interpretation of what they read on this site.

Don’t believe anything just because you read it, or just because you heard it. Discerning the validity of information, whether found here or elsewhere, is the responsibility of the individual.

Moderators on this site make efforts to review the material posted on this site for inappropriateness. However, it is not realistically possible a handful of volunteers to manually review each and every one of the thousands of posts and comments generated daily at the site.

Beware! NO post on this website should be considered factual information on face value alone. Users are encouraged to

USE DISCERNMENT

and do their own follow up research while reading and posting on this website.

In no event shall the Daily Paul be liable for any special, incidental, indirect or consequential damages of any kind, or any damages whatsoever, including, without limitation, those resulting from loss of use, data or profits, whether or not advised of the possibility of damage, and on any theory of liability, arising out of or in connection with the use or performance of this site or other documents which are referenced by or linked to this site.

Read Full Disclaimer Here

My Political Awakening: I Wanted to Change the World...
I am NOT Anti-America. America is Anti-Me - Lowkey
How to Handle POLICE STATE Encounters

My Opinion

The hypocrisy is more damaging. But it's obvious folks here disagree.

The "house" metaphor is getting trite. It seems to me that respect should be a two-way street. While I can agree with respecting Michael's wishes (and I haven't posted or pushed fake blood or crisis actors or Jeff Bauman) ... it might be good to remember that the content at DP is supplied by the "guests." What would it look like here if the guests stopped populating the site with its content? That's part of why in my post yesterday, the reason this site is such a success is the people who come and post and share. It's a great thing that Michael laid the foundation, but it seems to me the pillar and post (pun intended) and furnishings would be blank without the guests.

So "private" does not properly describe the "property." This is not what is considered "real property" for the purposes of property rights as generally understood, and where it could fall into copy"right" or intellectual property, neither of those is legally applicable to the content either.

It's pretty disappointing to see how people attack each other so nastily. It does make one wonder sometimes, but like I have always believed, liberty is messy and it takes all kinds to make a movement move. Everyone has a role. But I'd rather see the hypocrisy go away than conspiracy theories.