33 votes

Why I Come to DP

I read at the DP mainly b/c I’m a Ron Paul supporter and generally can relate to the thoughts and opinions reflected by other Ron Paul supporters who show up here. After Ron Paul exited the race for president last year, I had a “tapering off” period and quit coming for a while after the GOP criminal convention. I showed up in January a bit and followed the chatter around Sandy Hook. It was a great place to see a lot of different information and consider the implications. I saw some kooky ideas but clustered with those were not-so-kooky ideas and I just – as an adult – sifted out the ones I thought were offensive or unfounded. Then I took a little break again.

When Boston happened I came back because I knew the DP community would be a wealth of information – a firestorm of investigation, questioning, debating, vetting, arguing, more information. I rely on the typical (not that any of you is typical) DP participant to brainstorm against the official MSM and government lines of explanation for these big “events” that help us all seek truth about what’s really happening. I rely on the fact that there will be stuff that goes beyond what is probable but mostly I have relied upon what I perceived to be a very free, open, and unmolested exchange of debate with no taboo topics. It felt like there was oxygen in this place and some elbow room for lovers of freedom and diversity.

Lately I am disheartened to witness the calls for and exercise of censorship. I have seen the arguments about this being Michael’s property, his house, his property ad nauseum. I don’t intend to argue against that line of reasoning. A case can be mounted on those grounds, to prohibit any topic at all, according to the whims of the site creator and appointed mods. Once this begins, it is no longer a place for free and open debate, rather a place for debate with constraints beyond most of the community’s control. The oxygen is getting kinda sucked out.

I don’t think the big issue is about fake blood and crisis actors. I think the big issue is about freedom vs. control. But this is and always has been the core struggle of human community, right? We want to be free, but some are free to control. I think it’s a terrible shame that passionate supporters of Ron Paul are being “lined out” for fighting for freedom of expression. It reminds me of the RP delegate candidates getting pushed out at election centers last year b/c they don’t “toe” the line of the establishment duopoly. It is an irony of epic proportion.

So what? So I’m just one unknown participant at the DP who will likely be downvoted and criticized for criticizing. That’s fine. It’s the nature of the free exchange and I say “bring it,” even if it’s against me. I don’t really care who started this site, or who moderates for this site. I’m not into personalities, heroes, champions, etc.

Even Ron Paul is not my “hero,” though he has my deep respect for leading on and representing the ideas in which I believe. I care more about ALL the people here who love freedom and love to challenge and who are even a little off their rockers from time to time. I don’t expect or want you to be proper, politically correct, sensitive, intellectual, coloring in the lines, in other words – like those who don’t want individuality. I thought individuality was a big part of the point at the DP, yet see a creeping collective attack “pack” behavior surfacing. Is it a sinister infiltration? Is it just inevitable human hypocrisy? I don’t know. No clue. But either way, it’s revolting and cowardly.

So to all of you DPers who participate and advance your ideas (even the ones I think are stupid), hats off to you for being lovers of freedom and supporters of Ron Paul’s ideas. Surely there is always SOMETHING we are going to agree upon. It seems evident the topic of banning isn’t it. I wish someone able and willing would start another community and engage the competitive, free market principle where it comes to the Ron Paul supporting liberty community; a place where the open debate wouldn’t slide to the inevitable direction of control to which it always seems to slide. It would be tough to rival this DP…it’s a fabulous set-up and sorta like the Drudge (only better) for Ron Paul supporters.

For a while, I’m sure I’ll continue to visit and appreciate the sharing that you all do here that make this site what it is – and YOU are the ones who make it so great. Fighters keep fighting…I’m with you. Never give up on freedom. And people – could you stop being nasty to each other when you disagree? Just disagree but have some decency to do it without resorting to pettiness. If you love Ron Paul, he’s an incredible example of staying respectful to his opponents while disagreeing. Check him out.




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Séamusín's picture

What I dont understand is...

Why, if we all trust Michael, is this whole thing about fake blood not a dead issue. I'm sorry but if he and the other trustworthy regulars say that people were really injured in Boston, that is enough for me.

Ok, just got down voted. But really c'mon. If Michael came out and said that there was absolutely nothing real about the bombing everyone on this site would have taken his word as gospel.

Séamusín

Have you SEEN Michael since

Have you SEEN Michael since the bombings? Spoken to him on the phone?(though 9/11 taught us even that can be faked). How do you know he wasn't 'replaced' during the Boston raids?

Why did he suddenly go off in a long holiday afterwards? Do you have PROOF it was his aniversary? Who is this 'Leader Jon' anyway? Can you not see we have been infiltrated by trolls?

Dude.

I'm seeing a lack of proper DailyPaul HTML tagging on this post, likely leading to massively invocation of Poe's Law.

Eric Hoffer

You Bring Out Some Very Good Points, Thank You.

My opinion is; The first Amendment when it refers to freedom of speech, means an "Honest as possible" expression of thoughts, and in no way slanted to deceive the readers.

Another thought is; Because for about 6 years now, the daily Paul may just be about the only blog that is not fed pre prepared by the poster, propaganda to benefit an agenda, political or otherwise, it may be being targeted by some that are intent on destroying the credibility, of the site, by using the separate and divide tactic of destruction of the site, since Ron Paul's message is against those big entities that are also against the supreme LAW of the land, which is meant to BIND the U.S. together as the United States.

beesting

Blown out of proportion

Wah wah wah

Heaven forbid people edit the content of their own website.

While I wouldn't have picked that topic to censor, I probably would have regulated more of other types of topics myself, had I been in charge.

The problem with a democratic up voting and bumping system is the most controversial threads inherently become the ones that stay afloat. As such, the design of the dailypaul naturally creates a place of controversial discussion. It favors the most interesting topics while at the same time the most annoying ones.

Again, I for one enjoy exploring the idea that there may have actors, as there was obviously a cover up involved on that day. But, really? Who gives a crap if your favorite website happens not to be discussing your pet subject. For crying out loud, visit YouTube and godlike productions if you want to explore that topic more thoroughly

Drop / Kick Boxer Rebellion

How is it a conundrum ?

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2938578

I appreciate the form and substance of this post. And I'm also very sympathetic with Jefferson's lament about the rowdy intercourse in this animal house leaving a sloppy spot under the coats in the DP master bedroom. Those who have been around the homestead through the years can cut each other some slack acknowledging the good faith of the genuine participants here as a basis to get along until Michael settles back.
To those who just can't be agreeable I say: 'let's take it outside.'

Artist: Brantley Gilbert
Song: Take It Outside:

***
"These days things have changed
A lot of talk
Lot of pushin' and shovin'
Well if you wanna walk the walk
Let's have some respect
Got girls in here
Just pay your tab
And lay down your beer
So let's take it outside
Take it outside

It's man to man
Toe to toe
You know we need to go
Where nobody's gonna break it up
Not until we've had enough
And if you think you've got the guts
Then let's take it outside
Well if you think you're man enough …"
**

.

.

I come to the Daily Paul for

I come to the Daily Paul for news, humor, music, and interesting topics I can't see on television. The variety of opinion leads me here every day.

Variety is the spice of life. Some of it's good. Some of it's bad. But how can we know what's good if we aren't allowed to see the bad?

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

variety is the spice of life and all that.

Imagine being in Boston on that day.

Pandas: The Silent Killer?
next 'Nightline'

Rearden

What REALLY sets me off those are things that are outright tacky and rude to Michael, who has done a great thing in creating the Daily Paul from scratch. As the homeowner, when simple requests, no matter the reasoning, aren't followed, what else is left but force on your own property? They must be removed, or censored, or moved to the Off Topic section if they violate his wishes.

This isn't your property, and "acknowledging and not arguing against" the property rights arguments doesn't really hold much sway when the crux of your argument is to disregard them entirely. There are ways to respectfully make your wishes regarding the running of the business known. Posting new post after new post as a method of generating support and controversy for your opinion isn't it.

I'm reminded of Hank Rearden in Atlas Shrugged. The public decided his metal was their need, because it was so good, and because it was so good, they had a right to determine how it should be used and distributed. Because it had value to them, they felt they were owed a degree of control over it, even though they didn't create or suffer for it. You may make the argument that the community is what is created, and that by being a member of the community, you have a right to your voice. This is incorrect. What you have done is participate in the conversation that you were allowed to have on the terms you've agreed to when you signed up. If the community isn't what you want it to be because it's instead following someone else's vision, then it's your right to create your own community. Google+ makes it really easy if you want to. However, you, as a user of this site, don't get to determine how it is run. You have no voice. You may want one, and by talking in a nice tone sound reasonable, but what you're actually demanding is that the rules be made by community vote and the threat of "I'll leave if you don't, and I'll loudly try and take anyone else I can with me!" and not by the guy who created the place.

Personally? I'd like to see the 9/11 stuff gone, because I disagree and often find it unhealthy for discussion, but the kicker is that the Daily Paul ISN'T my site. I don't make the rules here, I just try and follow them. So I accept it and work with it as I can and as I want to. That's what we're all expected to do as adults. Mind the rules if we want to be a part of the community.

Rabble rousing is a different story entirely, and it's where I think all of these posts should go. If you don't like how things are run, email Michael and share your ideas and thoughts in a respectful manner. I'm sure he'd get back to you if you were reasonable and shared your arguments. Posting innumerable "but I'm not happy!" threads is rude, tacky, and should get you banned. How hard is it to understand that it's rude to go into someone else's house when you've been invited in and then stand up on a table and try and rally the crowd to either break the rules or go down the street to another house? I mean seriously, just think about what you're actually engaging in with these infantile posts about how you'd run things differently. Remember Michael is a person. Remember that he's done something incredible here.

Sorry for coming off as somewhat of a jerk here, but I get riled up whenever I see this sort of logic snuck in under the guise of polite conversation. Limiting or filtering the topics of conversation on the site is not akin to stomping on your freedom of speech, no matter how much you try to equate the two.

Eric Hoffer

TwelveOhOne's picture

You are right about freedom of speech

And freedom of association, and freedom to spend where we want. I think I made an unfortunate decision when I decided to stop supporting this site earlier. I hope that future events prove that thought to be true and I return to supporting it. Time shall tell.

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
http://jsjinc.net - Jin Shin Jyutsu (energy healing)

It's your call

And that's the beautiful thing. If you ever come to love the site enough again to support it financially, and like the features offered, then you'll be able to do so, and nobody should judge you for it. :)

Eric Hoffer

Trevor Lyman's picture

Why do you have to try and

Why do you have to try and make one site all things to all people? Please tell me the one site on the entire web that is. Google? That's the closest you'll get and even that site isn't for everyone. Some people will never use Google.

Every single site on the web censors content. Why do I say that? Because every single site on the web makes some decision about what is and what isn't on their site. Even sites like Reddit have decided that petitions are spam and so they delete them. Moderators of different sections on Reddit make all kinds of decisions to leave or delete content--all the time.

Obviously you've never tried to run a news website and that's why you have absolutely no perspective of what is involved, or what sites do and don't do. That's why you think you have the right to tell this site how to run it's business. You don't!

If you want a conspiracy story and DP doesn't cover it well, go somewhere else! Stop saying that the DP isn't good because it didn't do exactly what you wanted when you wanted it.

Oh no, the floodgates of banning and censorship are opening and are going to ruin the DP once and for all?! Banning and censorship have been happening on this site since 2004. You're just recognizing it now?

The DP is a great site for what it is good at. Leave it at that and stop pretending you know how to run a news blog. Stop pretending you should be the authority on what goes on here and stop pretending the world is going to end because you just started noticing that some posters and some posts get deleted. Get over it and move on.

No website will ever be all things to all people. That's why there are so many websites on the web. If you don't get one topic well here, go over there. Don't get another topic well over there? Then come back here.

There is no one size fits all and the world isn't ending because you've decided that there should be no censorship. Get over it, browse the web and in the end get all that you need. You don't need to try and pretend that you're the keeper of the truth and you're here to rescue the DP. You aren't on both counts.

If I sound annoyed it's because I've seen one hundred versions of this post, posted by and up-voted by self-righteous people just like you, stirring up conflict over nothing, over and over again. It's really getting really old. You've said nothing here, you've stood on no principle and you've accomplished nothing. That's the truth.

Yep

Amen.

Eric Hoffer

Can't we just let the Up Vs.

Can't we just let the Up Vs. Down votes decide the issues discussed here instead of using the black marker?

If it's stupid, let it be stupid...and down voted - which is a form of moderation. Members here at the DP self moderate the discussions with a plus or a minus vote.

I think the big reason why so many people are agitated is because certain posts that were stricken from the official DP record actually had a lot of positive feedback.

"Can't we all just get along?"

If somebody has something stupid to say, let them say it. Because a year or two from now that person could very well be seen as being not so stupid after all.

We are all way too quick to judge one another.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

January 07 was the start date for this site.

and I know that is nit picking.

I am 53 and my first political donation EVER was either the Nov 5TH event or the blimp.
too much fun and too much hope is how I remember those events now.....

on a personal note, I have my original copy of "a Manifesto"
if I sent it to you, would you sign, comment and send it back to me?
peace.

it is missing both you and Michael. if you would forward it to him... I will pay for postage.

Sorry, but that just read

Sorry, but that just read like an old man saying, "Get off my lawn!"

Ease up a bit bro...and to use your own words, get over it.

That ball is going to go on the grass no matter what, big deal. Throw down some grass seed, and water your lawn with the fountain of liberty instead of responding like your nasty neighbor down the street....who never cuts his damn lawn anyways!

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

Go Ahead, ask me a simple question....

and if I cut your grass? it is SERIOUSLY....
not my problem.

you sound bitter friend in Liberty..

I was responding to Trevor,

I was responding to Trevor, not you...

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

yes Dear, does that mean that I picked the right song?

or would this one have been better for you love?...

LOL

God, HVAC, I disagree with you all over the place on some issues, but I'm laughing far too hard right now. You're competing with thenung below for best post in the thread.

Eric Hoffer

speaking of Coronal discharge detectors....

that is what we were talking about....right?

is there a reliable one for HFC's yet? or am I putting my ignorance on display by asking you such a question...?
or, mebbe, since you are from the metro Detroit area....

did I axe you a stupid queshun?

:)

Hmmmm

Yo homie, let me axe you sumthin, you know bout dat CDD?

If ignorance is on display here, it's mine of coronal discharge detectors as I don't really work with them (I think we disagree on controlled demolition for 9/11, long time since we've gotten into it though, thinking years). I usually stick with photoionization technology for refrigerants with a low enough ionization potential (excepting Ammonia), or infrared when it's available, but when I'm involved we're usually looking at quantifying the amount present at the ppm level moreso than just detecting that a leak has occurred. There IS a really cool one I read about from their patent filing here: http://www.google.com/patents/US20120047926.

I'm not sure how pleased I am with the HF floating around though, I'm not sure if the sensing element, which I'm assuming is electrochemical, is capable of metabolizing all of it or if some of it would float free into the air which.... doesn't sound fun.

Eric Hoffer

so, like you have a problem with Chlorine?

my understanding is...was? that the former reliable H10-b worked off of the corona discharge..... of the Chlorine molecule.

I figured it is probably like fluorescence.... like the bulbs ya know?
I only discovered Plasma technology a few years ago. neat stuff there friend.

I could use to get up to speed on HFC's. are they lighter or heavier than air? just simple stuff like that....
I am not a chemist or a Plasma scientist... just a dumb....

reeferman.

:)

Uh huh

My understand of corona discharge goes: "yeah a hose sucks the gas over a wire, if it picks up anything it beeps" and that's as far as I got.

Simple my ass.

Eric Hoffer

Well people, put your money where your mouth is.

This may be Micheal's house, as we have heard repeatedly. Ok. But keep in mind that he asks us all to help pay the mortgage. I'm no longer going to help pay the mortgage if freedom of speech is being restricted. Along with that, we have a "slash and burn" mod and the trolls have been allowed to run totally wild.

Whatever. But I've cancelled my paid account and will no longer donate to fund drives.

If you want to take a stand, do so with your wallets as I did.

Later.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.

TwelveOhOne's picture

You make a good point

I haven't been banned, but my friends have.

I'm stopping my subscription. It's only $10 a month, but I did it because I appreciated this community.

In Michael's absence, that appreciation is diminishing.

It can return. But I'm not paying for this theater, for now.

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
http://jsjinc.net - Jin Shin Jyutsu (energy healing)

TwelveOhOne's picture

Often I speak in references without knowing it

I knew my subject "You make a good point" had something to do with something I had experienced.

I then recalled that it was from the movie Rango, so I searched on the quote.

While the search was returning, the ending word "son" came to my mind.

I saw that the Mayor had said that, and Rango had said just before that, "I guess power has its privileges."

I then remembered that before Rango said that, the Mayor was saying something to Rango and pouring himself a glass of water (which was scarce in the movie). The Mayor was just about to pour Rango a glass when Rango spoke -- and at that point, the Mayor pulled the flask away.

Note that I'm not comparing myself to the Mayor, who did evil deeds; just that my subconsciousness pulled the quote out as appropriate, because I was pulling the resource away at that moment.

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
http://jsjinc.net - Jin Shin Jyutsu (energy healing)

Censorship and Banning

Is the anti-thesis of this entire movement. It is a great shame that Michael and his apologists have accepted this practice.

The very essence of the message of Ron Paul and the liberty movement is that of reason and compassion above all other values or priorities.

The leadership of The Daily Paul has failed in this essential mission when they employ such censorship which is absolutely rooted in fear and irrationality.

Unfortunately, this site still harbors love for The State, from which they have borrowed this practice. We must move past this archaic system of control if we are to see our Love Revolution realized.

well spoken

well spoken