33 votes

Why I Come to DP

I read at the DP mainly b/c I’m a Ron Paul supporter and generally can relate to the thoughts and opinions reflected by other Ron Paul supporters who show up here. After Ron Paul exited the race for president last year, I had a “tapering off” period and quit coming for a while after the GOP criminal convention. I showed up in January a bit and followed the chatter around Sandy Hook. It was a great place to see a lot of different information and consider the implications. I saw some kooky ideas but clustered with those were not-so-kooky ideas and I just – as an adult – sifted out the ones I thought were offensive or unfounded. Then I took a little break again.

When Boston happened I came back because I knew the DP community would be a wealth of information – a firestorm of investigation, questioning, debating, vetting, arguing, more information. I rely on the typical (not that any of you is typical) DP participant to brainstorm against the official MSM and government lines of explanation for these big “events” that help us all seek truth about what’s really happening. I rely on the fact that there will be stuff that goes beyond what is probable but mostly I have relied upon what I perceived to be a very free, open, and unmolested exchange of debate with no taboo topics. It felt like there was oxygen in this place and some elbow room for lovers of freedom and diversity.

Lately I am disheartened to witness the calls for and exercise of censorship. I have seen the arguments about this being Michael’s property, his house, his property ad nauseum. I don’t intend to argue against that line of reasoning. A case can be mounted on those grounds, to prohibit any topic at all, according to the whims of the site creator and appointed mods. Once this begins, it is no longer a place for free and open debate, rather a place for debate with constraints beyond most of the community’s control. The oxygen is getting kinda sucked out.

I don’t think the big issue is about fake blood and crisis actors. I think the big issue is about freedom vs. control. But this is and always has been the core struggle of human community, right? We want to be free, but some are free to control. I think it’s a terrible shame that passionate supporters of Ron Paul are being “lined out” for fighting for freedom of expression. It reminds me of the RP delegate candidates getting pushed out at election centers last year b/c they don’t “toe” the line of the establishment duopoly. It is an irony of epic proportion.

So what? So I’m just one unknown participant at the DP who will likely be downvoted and criticized for criticizing. That’s fine. It’s the nature of the free exchange and I say “bring it,” even if it’s against me. I don’t really care who started this site, or who moderates for this site. I’m not into personalities, heroes, champions, etc.

Even Ron Paul is not my “hero,” though he has my deep respect for leading on and representing the ideas in which I believe. I care more about ALL the people here who love freedom and love to challenge and who are even a little off their rockers from time to time. I don’t expect or want you to be proper, politically correct, sensitive, intellectual, coloring in the lines, in other words – like those who don’t want individuality. I thought individuality was a big part of the point at the DP, yet see a creeping collective attack “pack” behavior surfacing. Is it a sinister infiltration? Is it just inevitable human hypocrisy? I don’t know. No clue. But either way, it’s revolting and cowardly.

So to all of you DPers who participate and advance your ideas (even the ones I think are stupid), hats off to you for being lovers of freedom and supporters of Ron Paul’s ideas. Surely there is always SOMETHING we are going to agree upon. It seems evident the topic of banning isn’t it. I wish someone able and willing would start another community and engage the competitive, free market principle where it comes to the Ron Paul supporting liberty community; a place where the open debate wouldn’t slide to the inevitable direction of control to which it always seems to slide. It would be tough to rival this DP…it’s a fabulous set-up and sorta like the Drudge (only better) for Ron Paul supporters.

For a while, I’m sure I’ll continue to visit and appreciate the sharing that you all do here that make this site what it is – and YOU are the ones who make it so great. Fighters keep fighting…I’m with you. Never give up on freedom. And people – could you stop being nasty to each other when you disagree? Just disagree but have some decency to do it without resorting to pettiness. If you love Ron Paul, he’s an incredible example of staying respectful to his opponents while disagreeing. Check him out.

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On a side note

Did anyone see all the lipsynching going on during American Idol last night?

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Can't say I did. I haven't

Can't say I did. I haven't watched that show since...

ummmmmm...I've never watched it.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

I hope

no one thought I was serious. It was getting a little uncomfortable in here.

Ammunition -- 9mm - 40s&w - 45acp - .223/5.56x45 -- www.ammopit.com
Bulk Components starting this month also with 223 bullets!

I really don't watch American Idol

I really don't watch American Idol...

but I do catch the occasional episode of Hardcore Pawn LOL


http://youtu.be/GQkhj_XwxCw

yeah, I know it's braindead trash...but still funny.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

Now that is a show that I can't watch

I don't know what it is, but that family/show makes it easy to shut the TV off and read a book.

Regarding my first post, I guess I have some work to do on my comedic timing and delivery. ;)

Ammunition -- 9mm - 40s&w - 45acp - .223/5.56x45 -- www.ammopit.com
Bulk Components starting this month also with 223 bullets!

Bump for

A kindred spirit. In fact I do t watch ANY tv.

God Bless
Stēkō

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

I gotta admit though

this place has really gone downhill. No more blog style, I can't post in the forums and friends can't even create a new account. I don't spend much time here anymore. Thanks mods.

Jefferson's picture

I

agree for the most part. Thank you for the well written perspective.

Here is the key phrase that stood out to me

"I saw some kooky ideas but clustered with those were not-so-kooky ideas and I just – as an adult – sifted out the ones I thought were offensive or unfounded." (emphasis mine)

You mean you didn't go running to the mod thread with a quivering lip, crying for someone to save you from something uncomfortable you read? You mean you just focused on your OWN reputation instead of worrying about the reputation of everyone ELSE at the DP? What a novel idea.

Unfortunately this latest fiasco has become an extremely irritable feedback loop. I've seen it happen multiple times over the years. It starts with people complaining about the "conspiracy kooks," and then the conspiracy kooks post more just to piss off the "quivery lipped." There is lack of "adult" behavior on both sides.

While there are some who will calmly and rationally try to debate a particular theory, there are others who seem to enjoy being instigators, antagonists, smart asses, or just crybabies (on both sides) in general.

That being said, I am a self described "conspiracy kook." I don't trust this lying Govt. as far as I could throw it. They have been proven to lie on multiple occasions throughout history. If you lie to me once, chances are you're going to lie to me again. This is also compounded by the corrupt lapdog media that has long forgotten the definition of investigative journalism.

Conspiracy is as old as the dawn of man. Ever since two cavemen got together and decided they could take a dinosaur bone and knock the other one over the head to take his food, conspiracy has existed. History is replete with examples of men conspiring to deceive, control, and enslave his fellow man. To deny that is naive and foolish frankly.

I appreciate those who try to be the "watchmen on the wall." (even if they occasionally get alarmed by mere shadows) I'd rather be around people who are paying attention than braindead zombies who can't seem to discuss anything outside of professional sports, American Idol, and Dancing with the Stars.

The crux of the issue is private property rights, not "freedom of expression." Just because I can walk into my buddy's home and call his wife/girlfriend and offensive name (because I think it is the truth) doesn't mean I will. As an "adult," I can hopefully find other ways to resolve the issue.

The homeowner made a simple request (right or wrong) that the "fake actor" theory not be pushed here. Some people rather than respecting the owner's wishes, dug their heels in further in defiance, and ended up getting some of their privileges taken away. Like a child always testing the limits, they eventually found the line. This was also inflamed by the instigators, antagonists, and smart asses.

Now, I'm beginning to see rumblings and sweeping generalisations of "the mods" who most people don't even know, or what their personal beliefs are. I don't like being lumped into a collective and accused of being a control freak. I have long been an advocate for the variety of topic here at the DP.

If you had asked me to help look after your home while you were out of town, and I just ignored your wishes and left the door unlocked and let whoever in the house to do as they please even to the point of having sex in your bed, would you trust me to do it ever again? Would I be considered a friend who has YOUR best interests at heart? Or would I be considered someone who does not honor their word? I personally told Michael to "not give this place a second thought while he was away." Now look at the shitstorm that has been created because people couldn't behave themselves.

People on BOTH sides of the issue need to grow the hell up and simply respect the owner's wishes, or go somewhere else. It's as simple as that. I'm sick of the whiners, and I'm sick of people grandstanding to try and make a point.

I'll tell you this, I cringe when I think of the BS Michael is potentially going to be subjected to when he gets back from his vacation. It's the SAME shit he was subjected to LAST TIME he went on vacation. I understand now why he sometimes wants to scrap this place. I have a WHOLE new appreciation for what he has to do to help maintain the frontpage, and how he has to immerse himself in the "news" and personal squabbles more than he probably wants to. It almost makes me want to throw my hands up, but I will honor my commitment until he returns.

Amen

Jefferson, I just wrote an 8 paragraph post agreeing with and supporting the points you've made. I'm posting it on it's own as a response to the OP instead, but I still wanted to thank you for raising the points.

And I still chuckle occasionally remembering the story of you facing down a speeding car, gun in hand.

Eric Hoffer

good stuff Jefferson.

good stuff Jefferson.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

deacon's picture

thank you

your comment would be better served with a side of crow
preferably warmed :)
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

I keyed in

on the same exact excerpt of the comment. Only the thing I was going to say is that "as an adult" I don't get offended. I don't see it as something a strong person does. I couldn't agree with you more on everything else.

and support the FUEL Republic Broadcasting Network puts out..

...they seem truly independent, if not simply unafraid to me....

http://www.dailypaul.com/285719/republic-broadcasting-networ...

Can't believe it took me this long to find them....if it wasn't for our "question, question, question" attitude, I wouldn't have found them...and yes, the banning is getting extreme it seems....

Very well put !

And this is why I penned "Who are we who tend this Liberty tree " and posted it yesterday, thanks to all who feel as Gsnell and I do. And for those who disagree, keep coming back !
Great
God Bless
Stēkō

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

This place also doesn't allow...

pornography to be posted, this is censorship.

Michael Nystrom as the owner of this website obviously has standards of what he will allow on his website.

Michael made it very clear that he doesn't want anyone slandering the victims of the Boston bombings and posting threads accusing the victims of being "actors".

You can respect his requests to not post what he has specifically asked you not to post on his property, or you can hit the road.

It is as simple as that, respect his property.

If you were in someones house, would you continue to do something they specifically asked you not to do?

Would the homeowner not have the right to ask you to stop, and eject you if you continued?

It really is this simple, Michael has asked that you specifically do not post "Boston victims are actors" garbage on his website, if you don't like it, too bad.

You can either accept it and respect his property, or leave.

There are plenty of other places where you can make an ass of yourself and push the "crisis actors" BS, but you can't do it here.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Hey copy and paste

Your constant posting of this asinine private property argument has become more than annoying. Why are you unable to at least appreciate the sincerity and thoughtfulness of this post? There isn't a damn person here who does not logically understand your private property argument. Don't delude yourself by thinking you have some sort of monopoly on common sense. Your unwillingness to at least understand the concerns of the MANY who are disturbed by the sudden and blatant banning and censoring is curious to say the least. Many of these members built this site w their content, loyalty and WAIT FOR IT .....MONEY and have every right to question the sudden shift in the way things are done around here.

Don't like that ? Then YOU leave.

LOL

Did you just call private property arguments asinine? Are you joking?

Why are you unable to at least appreciate the sincerity and thoughtfulness of this post?

Because the argument contained within is still, "We are the mass and we want X, therefore you should provide us with a site that is like x." The fact that the argument is couched within polite language doesn't change the fact that it's an argument presented.

There isn't a damn person here who does not logically understand your private property argument.

Obviously they logically understand it, they just don't like it and decide to ignore it. Private property is good for you, just not so good for other people right?

Your unwillingness to at least understand the concerns of the MANY who are disturbed by the sudden and blatant banning and censoring is curious to say the least.

Understanding concerns is fine. I'm sure Michael understands those concerns, as do the mods. I'd bet they especially understand them because the same concerns have been posted over and over again in an effort to rouse the community and rile up posters on the site, with the aim to be to anger enough people that they can threaten to leave en masse.

Many of these members built this site w their content, loyalty and WAIT FOR IT .....MONEY and have every right to question the sudden shift in the way things are done around here.

Sure, they have a right to question it. Usually that's done through email as opposed to public pronouncement and PR campaign isn't it though? Maybe that's just for normally polite or businesslike people. I like how you capitalized MONEY there, it makes it sound almost like those people that donated money or paid for an ad free version of the site were given an inherent vote on how the site were run. I know you wouldn't make that illogical argument though, that the customer were somehow involved in the management of the site.

As a metaphor, if you stood up in a restaurant and began loudly discussing with the other patrons better ways to cook the fish and how the food quality has been going down over the last few months and how you think they should do something about it, you'd expect to be asked to leave, and if you didn't, you'd understand being forced out the door. However, when you engage in the same sort of thing here, you expect... love and kisses?

Somehow I think a lot of you guys just don't get it.

It was a simple request: "Don't attack the victims of the Boston Bombing by implying that those hurt were actors." It obviously can't be followed, and it's just SO hard not to do that people couldn't help themselves but to violate the request. Over and over and over and over again.

Eric Hoffer

Real men don't "LOL"

Asking questions is not "attacking" the victims, that suggestion sounds almost as ridiculous as the private property argument that Copy & Paste has been spewing about. This is so far removed from the victims of the bombing it is laughable you'd even suggest there is still a connection. Long time members have been banned for supporting other members or simply for questioning this sudden shift.

Btw, your "metaphor" was in fact an analogy, and a very poor one at that.

Don't lol? No laughing eh? Must be a sad life there

Sorry though man, when you make goofy arguments like this, I can't help but get in a good ole chuckle.

You're claiming that you can't attack by asking questions, but this obviously isn't true, as the nature of the question can be an imposed accusation. Life isn't a courtroom. How would you feel if your picture were printed up on the front page of the paper with the bold headline, "Did EdSchill fondle a young boy in the shower?" Would you really view this as a question?

As for the private property argument, I still think you're in the wrong forum. Michael, who owns and manages this site, made a specific request. People choosing purposely not to follow it, and violating that request leads to him being required to force the issue. It's obviously you don't understand the property rights argument, and thusly are choosing to ignore it. That's fine, I just think you're in the wrong forum if you don't believe in property rights.

As to the victim's of the bombing, it doesn't matter in terms of the logical argument. Michael has said no to it, and that's where the line is drawn. If you don't like it, send a few emails, but rabble rousing on his own forum is just tactless and uncalled for.

As to the metaphor, I apologize if the distinction wasn't clear, as metaphors and analogies are so closely related. In the analogy I gave, you were the metaphorical "rude customer that no one wants in their establishment because he thinks the rules don't apply to him."

Eric Hoffer

it's ok man

Let's agree to disagree... like we used to do around here.

Have a good weekend.

Can do

I can do that. I'm sure we'll see each other in another thread under less heated circumstances. Cheers.

Eric Hoffer

You can whine and complain about it all you want...

but it still stands.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

LOL...dude, you're a first

LOL...dude, you're a first class instigator.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

You forgot to add...

super troll, secret government infiltrator, and all around evil doer.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

I will add brown noser.

I will add brown noser.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

Let it all out, buddy.

Do you feel better?

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

I'm good bro. Thanks for

I'm good bro. Thanks for asking.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

That's good to hear.

Anytime you need a shoulder to cry on, I'll be here.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Always gonna be a balance

After the third youtube came up showing ABSOLUTE PROOF a missile took out the Texas fertilizer plant, and AFTER viewers watched it and claimed that they too SAW A MISSILE and supported this ABSOLUTE PROOF....

if it was my site I would have just blacked it and walked away.

Freedom of expression is one thing but why would I create a support system for stupidity? Or worse, for disinfo or even worse, a trigger mechanism for mass pathology?

A few years back Foxnews released a Pentagon tape that SHOWED THE AIRPLANE THAT HIT THE PENTAGON and masses, millions of Foxnews viewers said yes, now you have ABSOLUTE PROOF, there it is right in the video, there's your airplane.

THERE WAS NO AIRPLANE, NO PART OF AN AIRPLANE IN ANY FAME OF THAT VIDEO YET FOXNEWSERS SAW ONE.

Well I saw the same thing happen here. Repeatedly. Does this not make a case for moderation?

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

bump--

.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--