4 votes

Why isn't there a Progressive movement for forced organ/tissue redistribution?

[SATIRE]

It seems to me that organ and tissue donation is the last bastion of freedom of choice in the American Nanny State. Progressives champion the idea of forced redistribution of wealth through income taxation. They attempt to use government to control just about every aspect of our lives, especially in the name of health care. Progressives use the government to regulate and control what chemicals we put into our bodies, both food and drugs.

So why aren't progressives openly calling to control the chemicals and tissues that come out of our bodies?. Why aren't they trying to redistribute health and disease in the same manner as income and other property? Why aren't they calling for the healthy to sacrifice a certain percentage of their healthy bodies in order to help the greater good by redistributing their organs and tissues to the sick and needy?

Progressives notoriously portray everyone but themselves as selfish and greedy and a system of voluntary charity as inadequate for helping society, which is why they use government to forcefully redistribute wealth, so why do they settle for a voluntary organ and tissue donation system? The waiting list for organ donation is practically endless and countless people are suffering. Just like poverty, disease is an eternal problem, relatively speaking, for mankind. In the progressive worldview forced wealth redistribution is just and ethical, so why aren't there calls for tissue redistribution? Aren't healthy people exploiting the sick, by eating the best foods and taking the best medicines just as the wealthy are exploiting the poor?

Just as taxes are collected annually, shouldn't the government also harvest tissue? The healthiest people could be audited and evaluated and to see how much they could afford to "donate," but everyone could pay their fair share. Isn't this how progressive redistribution of wealth works? Human beings only need one lung, kidney, cornea, hand, and various other organs to live. Isn't it selfish to keep extra organs and appendages when other people could benefit from them? Those who can't afford to lose an appendage could still be forced to donate tissue such as bone marrow and skin, that way everyone is contributing their fair share back to society.

Isn't government organ and tissue harvesting the next step for our compassionate progressive government?

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To reiterate what Chessienut

To reiterate what Chessienut at said below, think hard about that donor card. If you read about the procedure, they sometimes keep people on life support for hours. They harvest the organs while people are still hooked up on life support, My brother had a massive brain stem stroke; his chances of recovering to full function was small and he had specifically said that he did not want to be on life support. However, there are cases of "locked in syndrome" were comatose people can hear and think. If there was only one in a million chance of my brother being aware while sitting in a hallway somewhere waiting to be carved up - hell no! So his wife and I stood our ground and did not let him be wheeled away even though he had signed the donor card,

Most people are not aware of the procedure, And as Chessie's story proves, doctor can be wrong and supposedly hopeless people do recover.

Vickie

Prophecy much?

They'll get here soon enough I think, based upon present evidence.

But socialism is proof that Darwin's theory can not be true, for if it was these weak minded types would have been evolved out a very long time ago. In fact socialism works directly AGAINST Darwin, in that they have repeatedly killed those who are superior in mind, strength, and spirit to themselves in order to perpetuate socialism.
But, but, but, isn't Darwin the patron saint of socialism? Yea, it's all about the oxymorons in socialism when you look close.

God Bless
Stēkō

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

What the hell are you talking about?

Darwin is not the patron saint of socialism. The main principles of socialism are as ancient as civilization, long preceding Darwin.

If Darwin never existed, mankind still would have still figured out evolution, as it is an observable phenomenon. In fact, other scientists were making similar, independent hypotheses. Darwin just got the credit.

Socialism is a political philosophy. Evolution is a biological process.

Also, Darwin was a very religious man and did not view the theory of evolution as conflicting with Christianity.

Adding to that

Darwin was far from the first to come up with a theory on evolution. There were Christian monks who wrote about it centuries ago, and even centuries before *that* in the Middle East by Muslim scientists.

The idea has been tossed around for at least a thousand years, probably longer.

A signature used to be here!

Plato: five steps to a good place

The first known thesis on " social justice and governance " written. But, historically one can look towards Babylon in scripture to see the " collectivization of all working towards commonality " which precedes Plato by centuries as an example of the base of theory upon socialization/ socialism in both written and oral traditions.

The fact that Darwinism was touted and supported while Christianity was persecuted under various Socialist tyrannies is historical fact and I'll not bother to restabilish it, it is already a universal truth and need no defense in my offering it as I did.
I wonder whether your just taking offense because of bias, or if your being disingenuous ? I favor the former as your reasoning, it typical and I anticipated such a response when I posted the above.

I spoke in general, not feeling the need to expound; believing again in the foreknowledge of universally established facts.
I note you made no attempt to address the facilcy of Darwinism I pointed too: that socialists should not now exist as they are the least common denominator of survivability of the strongest.

I'm not trying however to change whatever your belief systems are, nor can you effectually change mine.
Let's therefor focus upon Liberty, that which we have in common and leave off of bias altogether, shall we?

God Bless
Stēkō Parrēsia

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

Communists also used Newton's laws for space travel

If the communists believed the theories of a scientist, that must prove the scientist wrong, right?! How about that for a logical fallacy?

You will never, ever, ever, ever convince me that the fables in the Bible are scientific fact. You are starting with the premise that your religion, one of thousands and thousands, is the one true religion, and that the fables are true, and you are denying easily observable scientific evidence to prove it what you already believe to be true.

If the every bit of human knowledge was erased from the Earth, humans starting fresh would rediscover evolution. Religions would form again, as people manipulate each other and invent stories to explain what they do not understand, but Christianity as it is known now would be gone forever.

I already recognized your intransigence

And said " let's leave it and stick to what we have in common", did I not?
I can do this.
Can you?

God Bless
Stēkō

Drew, by the very grace of GOD through the blood of Christ Jesus.
"there shall come after us men whom shall garner great wealth using our system, and having done so shall seek to slam the door of prosperity behind them." George Washington

STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS!

Seriously man shut up! Don't think they won't actually consider that.

The Chicoms are already harvesting the organs of prisoners

And a few socialist European countries are, to put it mildly, reckless with organ harvesting.

You better believe that people in the US have already thought of this. I have brought this up in arguments before, and a few progressives explicitly admitted to me about supporting this type of practice.

It won't happen in the US anytime soon because of the influence of religion. Fortunately there is still a large percentage of medical authorities who abide by traditional ethics like THE PRINCIPLE OF AUTONOMY. Unfortunately there are extremist utilitarians trying their damn hardest undermine individual rights and orthodox bioethics (even the Hippocratic Oath itself was even perverted to sound more socialistic), but they haven't won yet.

double post

.

Or why don't we make like

Or why don't we make like 'Harrison Bergeron' and handicap everyone down to the lowest denominator so no one will ever be offended?

Southern Agrarian

Good one Delysid!

I have one exception:
The Progressives only want to take large chunks from those with lots of skin and organ tissue. It's the Neo-cons that would like to take a little bit from everybody to give to the fat cats that already have too much skin and organ tissue.

While the subject of organ donation

is an of honorable intentions it must be viewed in a somewhat sinister framework. I've had two personal experiences with it, the first being a friend in his twenties who was in a horrific auto accident. The doctors were adamant about his chances of survival being nil and were quite persistent in attempting to persuade his dad to turn off life support. Thankfully he refused and within a week his son had regained consciousness. At first he was a bit disabled but eventually almost made a full recovery. The second incident did not turn out as well.
My wife of 26 years suffered a total cardiac arrest on a Friday afternoon at our home which is in a rather rural area and is located near the county line. As I was preforming CPR with one hand I was calling 911 with my cell phone. Being as close to the county line as we were, I was routed to the next county which necessitated them having to transfer my call to my counties 911 center. To make a long story short after this delay, and the incompetence of the ambulance crew, it took an hour and a half to get her to a medical center.
Upon arrival, and much to my relief, I was told they had gotten her heart beating, that relief was very short lived. The next day the Neurologist told me that there was absolutely no brain activity and that if she were a few years older they would "pull the plug". Your concept of time in such a situation is totally suspended as your mind races through all the possibilities. Try as I might I could not get any of the physicians to transfer her to a university hospital in nearby Philadelphia. It soon became obvious that they were looking upon her as an organ doner. After they removed her from the respirator she began to breathe on her own. I had her transferred to a rehabilitation center where there was a thirty day limit allocated to see of there was any chance of recovery.
After her time was up and with no sign of recovery I was approached by a member of a organ harvest organization. Until then I was considering this option however once they explained that the harvest would be done before she had expired I found myself absolutely appalled and repulsed. I then had her transferred to a hospice unit and was persuaded by friends and family to remove her feeding tube which was a decision which will haunt me until the day I die. It took over a month for her to pass away and then I gladly allowed them to harvest her eyes and a few ligaments which were acceptable.
The point I am trying to make in this rather long story is that if any of you find yourself in any of the circumstances I have described, from the bungling ambulance crew to the unresponsive doctors, get your loved one out of their hands as soon as possible, don't be cowed by the "stand back and let the professional do his job" mentality which is so prevalent in much of our society. To this day I feel that if I had just tossed my wife in the car and drove to the hospital myself, she would have stood a much better chance of survival and not be treated as a potential organ doner.

There are no politicians or bankers in foxholes.

thank you

Thank you for telling your story. I have heard about and experienced the truth of the organ donor system

Vickie

Not to belittle your experience

But you and your wife would have been better off if you had just let her die as she should have in the first place. That is what you should be haunted by. I just hope it's true that she had zero brain activity so she wasn't aware of the horror that her body was put through.

I suppose they

should outlaw CPR. I sincerely hope there is no one close to you who you might be called upon to assist in such a situation. Many people are resuscitated and go on to a full recovery. In my situation it was a governmental screw up along with a bungled rescue which I can honestly blame for this situation. When I handed my wife off she was not hypoxic so the fact of me second guessing my reflexive action of administering CPR is not the fact of the matter here. The crux of the matter, and it has apparently eluded, you is to not place your faith or loved ones lives in anyone or anything else hands when the stakes are so high especially when an industry has sprung up to capitalize upon individuals deaths.

There are no politicians or bankers in foxholes.

I stand by what I said.

You are right about not putting yours or a loved ones life in someone elses hands and that is exactly my point.

"Many people are resuscitated and go on to a full recovery." I don't think true. Although some may be resuscitated, if tended too in time, full recovery doesn't happen. They will be medical money cows for the rest of their lives which is exactly what the medical establishment wants.

Don't wish guilt on others.

Don't wish guilt on others. Life is hard enough without horrible things happening.

I didn't

I didn't wish guilt on anyone. I merely suggested that the guilt already felt was misplaced.

That's awful, Chessie.

I am terribly sorry you had to experience that.

Don't

give them any ideas.

Reformed neocon

You always say that.

amazingly people with no teeth are able to keep living for an awfully awfully awfully long time...

Don't feed the pandas. Ever.

oops - sorry. wrong m-guy.

:)

Don't feed the pandas. Ever.

Those damn m-guys

are everywhere.

;)

Oops.

You are that damn c-guy. You got me again, Chris.