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Why I Say No To Amnesty. Illegal Aliens Get Better Government Care While War Veteran’s Needs Are Ignored.

It is a national disgrace that are veterans are ignored by our government. Many returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan are in need of follow up care for injuries sustained in combat. Obama’s sequester cuts have further defunded the VA. That means more war veterans who were wounded in combat will not get the care they need. Many will die waiting for approval from the VA. Many Veterans are homeless in need of mental health treatment.

On the other hand,the Illegal Aliens have the red carpet rolled out to them to come here and get welfare benefits. The US government pays for advertising in Mexico to encourage people to come here to go on Food Stamps and other government handouts. Illegal Alien Children get open heart surgeries and organ transplants at tax payers expense while Veterans who answered the call to defend liberty are kicked to the curb and treated like second class people by our Government. Many Iraq and Afghanistan veteran are living on the streets while Illegal Aliens get section 8 and other housing assistance.

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My group is better than your group

As long as we keep putting ourselves in these groups, furthering tribalism, we're never going to get to the root of some of our core societal problems. These branches share the same tree as protectionism, interventionism, racism and nationalism.

Aren't we all hear to respect the individual? Not argue for more welfare for one collective over another?

race card...

Vet vs illegal? These are not arbitrary groups or tribes. One set of individuals signed individual contracts and took an oath to defend the Constitution. The other set of individuals chose to ignore the Constution and laws written under it.

A Vet served to protected liberty and an illegal eroded it.

I don't see where you get off calling people racist. Theres a difference between legal and illegal immigration. And the difference does not include race. Theres a diff between a Vet & an illegal and once again not racism.

Protectionism of constitutional laws? Interventionism of our own country? Nationalism as opposed to no nation? These are words with negative connotation but no meaning in this discussion. Protectionism is high import tariffs and/or no legal immigration. But almost everyone wants legal immigration. Interventionism most often means jumping into other countries internal affairs. We're talking about our country so it can't be interventionism. Less often used to describe regulating the economy. Legal immigration and work visas easily displace illegal immigration. There is no net effect positive or negative to the economy. Nationalism is a political ideology not the law of the land. You can individually believe in the USA or not or somewhere in the middle but you don't have a choice to ignore constitutional laws.

Keep on fighting over this

Keep on fighting over this petty issue while the elites in the States (Bushes, Cheneys, etc) and in Mexico (Slim 2nd richest man in the world) keep on playing everybody against each other.

Our 'shcool' signs are done. Let's paint some 'vetcool.'


____

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

That is a Myth

Illegal Aliens do not get better care than Veterans. True Illegals get some care, its not great though, they have to wait longer, the health care is not has thorough, illegals are not able to afford prescriptions just like many low income Americans. Its not like illegals get this 5 star health care, its a myth

fact, not a myth

I was personally told, if I was indigent i'd get a 425k procedure free. At the time I was active duty military and was denied treatment by a civilian hospital. Long story short... was overseas, medevaced to the states, special processure at private hospital, hospital had contract with stateside Tricare (active duty federal gov military insurance) but not "Tricare Overseas". Meeting was called while I was dying and they told me if I didn't have a job my procedure would be free and most people just quit their job to qualify. Of course, I was under a contract and they don't take lightly to quitting. Anyway the paperwork was fixed by the military. But point being, medical is free for poor and incentive to quit your job is strong. Total bill for my 2 year stay was about 5 million but gov insurance stiffed the Hospital and only paid about 600k. Even uppermiddle class would and do quit their careers instead of paying 5 million. The sadly only reason its 5 million is b/c gov is screwing over the hospitals via gov employees, military, medicare, medicaid, indigent, etc.. I started asking around. Hospital guys I had met in the meeting later told me its illegal for hospitals to ask about insurance and legal status when entering emergency room. So technically, they said if I was illegal with no insurance went to emergency room never voluteered my name, legal status, insurance info and didn't sign paperwork I would not be responsible for any future payments but I'd get treated. And they would be under threat of legal action if I wasn't treated or received poor treatment.

Illegals get denied

Illegals get denied procedures all the time, most of the time there not even told about it. The only way illegals can get very expensive procedures done if its a serious emergency even then some Dr.'s hospitals rule against it. Ways illegals get procedures done is through philanthropy when people with big money donate to hospitals & say that they want the money they donated to be used for uninsured & illegals

Vets get denied too...

Illegals, Citizens w/ & w/o insurance get denied procedures. Some because they're insurance doesn't cover it or it's not required. Doctors don't hide illness or required procedures. If a doc does lie it's limited to their low moral charactor and not an institutional rule. Even with occasional bad doctors. I would bet care given here is better than their hometown.

You say serious emergency... I'm not talking about acne.

Federal tax dollars, Federal block grants to States and some States' funding don't ask legal status. Requirements are based on ability to pay ie.. income & assets. Experimental and transplant databases do have requirements. Due to medical tracking and case studies.

I haven't researched charities that specialize in illegals, but I'm sure good orgs are out there. I'm not sure if you're complaining about them? Philanthropy is great and part of volunteerism. Poeple helping people and private groups orginizing resources not government force.

Amnesty and mass immigration are as dumb as a box of rocks

Total 100% Constitution killer

Immigration: The Human Cost


http://youtu.be/fEedZJka1HQ

Potential Annualized National Debt Allowance - a look back at 40 years of PANDA diplomacy next Pandaline

So...

You listened to what really happened radio yesterday as well?

No train to Stockholm.

Always consider the solution, not the emotions...

As a libertarian one must always focus on the solution to the problem, and make sure to apply the principles of your life to solving those problems. Helping out wounded veterans will not prevent more wounded veterans. It will not prevent politicians, businessmen, and other groups from taking advantage of a problem. Instead of fighting the infection, you are advocating fighting the symptom. Whatever you think the solution is to the problem that you have stated, just try and stick to these freedom principles that are advocated on this website. And always consider the consequences of your decision; preventing people from freely crossing borders goes against the principles of libertarianism. The government should only exist to protect our natural rights through a judicial system...nothing more.

Natural rights

Does that include the right to private property?
Is the US of A private property in which shares are owned by US of A citizens?
Do I have the right to elect a politician who will make you pay more taxes for a smaller share of the US of A? At the same time give free shares away to law breakers and those who most likely will vote to continue the cycle of theft and give aways?
We already give away citizenship to about 1 mil/yr legal immigrants. And have Visa programs for worker, students and travelers. Heck we don't even require visas for many 1st world countries, just passports. Are we required to give 11-20 million in one year plus 30-50 million of their family members? This immigration bill is going to produce about 70 million new citizens in just a few years. I don't think most people understand that fact.
Long term goal of open borders is a great idea. A one world language and one currency would make things easier on paper too. Also no weapons on the planet. But I'm not giving up my gun first. I'm not willing to give up my border to bring about a one world government. I'll only give up my border for a world with NO gov. It's a big difference and as a libertian I hope you understand it.

"Is the US of A private property

in which shares are owned by US of A citizens?"

In a word, "no!" The USA is comprised of various pieces of private property owned by INDIVIDUALS, including "illegal" aliens. "Private Property" owned in common by the US government is an oxymoron. A strict respect for private property demands open borders. If you want to save money in the government budget to pay for Veterans (as I do), repeal the welfare state for everyone, including native born citizens. That will REALLY save money! (as well of course, as scaling back our imperial foreign policy and the warfare state)

We own Gov & all it's property if not by equal shares then how?

"A strict respect for private property demands open borders." I don't agree with your statement. Could you explain.
here's where I'm coming from...
I'm glad you caught the oxymoron. But this idea of public being different than private is misleading. Both are owned and exercised by owners. Your house is property owned by you. Federal property (including tax money) is owned by 300 million citizens. USA is a corporation. 1 share per citizen and exercised via voting. Federal property is not in limbo. Its managed by officials and restricted by a constitution. You would need to amend our Constitution in order to have open borders. This type of act would dissolve the shares and therefore your vote. Because we can't open borders and denie new people a vote (unless we went back to only land owners could vote, which is ok with me). An open border would end the USA. Equal to open property line at your personal home.
Kansas–Nebraska Act of 1854 implemented the concept of popular sovereignty. Kansas would vote to decide if territory from Kanasas to Montana would be free or slave. Bleeding Kansas border war broke out to control the vote. 6,000 votes but only 1,500 people really lived in Kansas. Thats what would happen today if we had a legal open border (and therefore legal open vote).
I'm not sure how I would restructure the federal debt or budget. You're right, cutting overseas spending is a great idea. Plus, I think our current safety net disincentivizes work. So I'd probably switch current welfare state to a negative income tax (NIT) plan. I think true median is around ~60k (gov says taxable ~40k, real ~50k). For every dollar below 60k you get 20% NIT. Every dollar above you pay 20% flat (positive) income tax. NIT would be bimonthly direct deposit tax returns and income tax would be flat tax taken from paycheck. Convert all federal social welfare programs to non-profits. The NIT of current welfare recipients would have deposits divided to each respective non-profit. They would have an option to sign a waiver and switch to cash. Without congressional approval these new non-profits could accept private donations and merge or divide. They could restructure more quickly to meet needs. Without work limits hopefully people could literally work their way off NIT and into positive side of the tax system. If it worked and budget started to balance. Install strick monitary policy to stop all artificial gov caused inflation. And SS&MC could be changed to a similar system. End all payroll taxes for SS&MC and take funds from general tax revenue. Under new SS you'd get 20% for each dollar under median (for a total of 40% max). If that worked. Switch new military recruits' VA benefits to the 20% style system. I think this system would provide a safety net without crushing liberty.

more on NIT

I'm not a libertarian

Im a Constitutionalist

I could care less about open borders and globalism, the hallmark of Libertarianism.

It's called the United States of America not the United Nations of the world.

And California was called Mexico...

The problem I have with this post is how the blame seems to shift from our government to a group of people who are simply trying to better themselves within a broken system which two governments have a hand in. Maybe that wasn't the intent and I just inserted it myself?

Government is the problem, we have the wealth (or we did) to treat our service men and women with the respect and care they deserve, and solve the problem of illegal immigration too - If we were willing to.

I find it hilarious that the average American complains about a trip to the DMV and how complicated income tax is, but blames the illegal immigrant for doing the human thing: Going around an overly complicated, broken, bloated government system.

I consider it civil disobedience, and I don't consider hard working family people a threat, even if they do come from one of those "brown countries"

its not so simple as just blaming the illegal immigrants

The illegal immigrants have been getting more and more for doing nothing though and it only takes a few minutes of research to find this out. No I'm not talking about some blog posts either I mean news articles. It's there if you look. Sure it sounds innocuous the way you described it but it's not that simple either.

Homeland security statement: patriotism is now considered terrorism.
I love www.isidewith.com shared it with everyone I know. If anything they realize its not just a red and blue idiot running for reelection.

You're blaming the recipient

of the government service for the existence of the service? It's quite simple really -- Abolish the welfare state! For everyone, immigrant and native born citizen alike!

Cyril's picture

I agree.

I agree.

We ought to strike at THE ROOTS of evil, not at the branches.

We are all corruptible or potential free riders.

This is normal. We are humans. Some will use only if they need. Others, always, will try to abuse. Let us blame THE FLAWED, UNJUST SYSTEM, then. Not those coincidental abusers of it.

Peter Schiff, himself, HAS BEEN a free rider, as he recalled HIMSELF :

http://youtu.be/npJ0CUT8d_Y

(fast forward at minute 41)

GET RID of the incentives for takers or free riders.

Let the people WORK and TRADE the way they wish.

Let the people SPEND the way they wish.

Let the people BUY from WHOM they wish. This won't have to be from big corporate FORCED ON THEM.

Let the people NOT EVEN USE BANKS if they so wish.

Let the people TAKE THEIR OWN RISKS.

Let the people PAY FOR THEIR OWN INSURANCE when, if and only if they so wish.

For all that:

Let the people KEEP ALL THEIR INCOME so they can SAVE for THEIR OWN retirement, and not for other's.

And I regard it as orthogonal to any and all immigration issues, otherwise. Because this ought to be the same fair principles for citizens already.

Thus far, the socialists, and their fascists chiefs, all over the place on this planet, are still "winning" the argument and shoving their plunder in everybody's throats.

Until we won't be able to take it any longer.

'HTH,

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

To stop the madness,

we need state-based, single-payer healthcare like in Canada.

And Mexicans needs to stay in Mexico, Chinese need to stay in China, etc. If millions of Americans set up camp in Mexico at the expense of Mexican taxpayers, and were taking millions of jobs, you can bet the Mexicans would be up in arms about it. We, on the other hand, just let ourselves be walked on by immigrants and politicians alike. Enough. The rule of law must return, and strict, sensible laws must prevail. No amnesty. They just need to leave us in peace in our country and go back to theirs.

In the new immigation bill the aliens will be given preference

Will be given preference over Americans with affirmative action and during a 13 year interim and Obamacare. Obamacare will not be given to aliens in transition of getting citizenship until the 13 year interim is up, but will get all the other benefits like welfare. The problem is, that businesses will be fined 3,000. per person that's employed without benefits, that needs to get obamacare, and that are citizens. The business incentives are, that Aliens will be given preference over Americans because aliens will not be susceptible to this fine because of their status, thus making it cheaper for businesses to hire aliens over Americans along with Affirmative action incentives. Aliens will be given work permits until the 13 year interim is up. Anyone else know more on this? I see this as HUGE!!! These actions being allowed WILL KILL THE AMERICAN WORKER ALTOGETHER FOR THE NEXT 13 YEARS!!!

SteveMT's picture

There would be few war veterans if wars were corrected declared

There would be few war veterans if wars were corrected declared by the Constitution, and there would be no illegal aliens if existing laws were followed and enforced. Imagine that.

Cyril's picture

^^^ BUMP. Best comment I can read thus far.

^^^ BUMP. Best comment I can read thus far.

As a non-citizen, alien, immigrant, here is my view on immigration:

http://www.dailypaul.com/281025#comment-3037541

It is sound AND rightful, IMO, for american citizens TO DEMAND, AS NON-NEGOTIABLE, that immigrants respect the country they immigrate to, starting with LAWS AND SELF-RELIANCE, and NOT think they can IMMIGRATE TO IT AS TAKERS.

Nothing positive, IMO, can follow from not understanding or trying (for whatever "agenda"... usually a socialist one) to work around this simple and fair principle.

Ask France how that worked for them, BY NOT RESPECTING it.

Anyone curious: yes, just go ahead. Ask them.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

No more amnesty for pilgrims and their anchor babies!

What does one have to do with the other? It's not like any money saved from immigrant healthcare would go to the Vets instead of a corporate bailou. Also many illegals pay social security but are not entitle to benefits. Stop blaming the another oppressed group and look at the money we are spending on the military industrial complex in the first place.

How

does not giving illegal immigrants special benefits from the government make them oppressed?

Until such time as the government stops stealing from me to give to other people whom they believe are "oppressed", I won't support letting more people come here. That's just rational self interest.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

I have a couple family members who deal with this

One has to go under the knife of a surgeon who almost killed him with incompetence once. They are surgeries he could still get without insurance because they are life-saving and those get scheduled one way or another. But because he's a vet, the hospitals say he has other options and he has to go to that hack. And everything that hack does leaves him with scar tissue that a better surgeon would be ashamed of, which means he has to get the surgery over and over again.

Another needed an urgent brain scan and was turned away from a local hospital because he was a vet and had other options. Again, it would have been provided out of mercy had he not been a vet. He had to go on a waiting list to get it through the VA, worsening the whole time and risking sudden death.

This isn't saying anything about who should or shouldn't provide what. This is just a description of the way vets get filtered in our society so their medical treatment ends up worse than if they weren't vets.

Defend Liberty!

Vet Perspective

Personally I don't understand anyone advocating this article yet claiming to understand Liberty. Government care programs should not even function period. Aside from that, nationalism is something a free nation shouldn't even need to recognize. If government subsidy ceased to exist, then no one would give a damn about citizenship/non citizenship. If we want to tackle this issue, let us focus on the real problem, government subsidy. The person who posted this should read more from Doctor Paul.