6 votes

Which Republic did the Founding Fathers give us?

1.In a federal republic, there is a division of powers between the national ("federal") government, and the government of the individual subdivisions. While each federal republic manages this division of powers differently, national security and defense, monetary policy, and other issues of a "national" scope are handled at the "federal" level while more local issues such as road and infrastructure maintenance and education policy are handled at the local level.

2.A unitary state is a state governed as one single unit in which the central government is supreme and any administrative divisions (subnational units) exercise only powers that their central government chooses to delegate.

Which republic do we live in?




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Good post and questions, and you answered them both well

Thank you!

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

The so called founders

The so called founders created the Federal Republic. But that republic was ended when the Southern states left the Union, resulting in a lack of quorum in Congress. Then a war was declared by a President of the dissolved Union, a president of no Constitutional authority as the Constitution cannot function without a quorum in Congress...

After the war the Union was "reconstructed" under the Reconstruction Acts. When something is destroyed and then reconstructed it may or MAY NOT be the same as the original.

In the case of the reconstrucition of the Union, it WAS NOT reconstructed same as the Original. This was a NEW Union, not the same as the old one. Under this New Union, the people were Citizens (owed allegiance to, under the jurisdiction...) of the Central government. Therefore this New Union is a Unitarian State, and a Representative Democracy not a Republic.

The real kicker is that so many think we still live under the Original Constitution, they read the Original Constitution and Bill of Rights, then they stop reading, even though the Reconstrucition FOLLOWS and changes what preceded it. And its all right there in the Constitution to be read, but you gotta read past the bill or rights...

So the answer to your question depends upon which founders you refer to, the founders in 1789 or the founders in 1868?

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

A Confederation became a Federal republic.

The moneyed elites wanted the cronyism the latter provided.

Scott Trask on junking the Articles of Confederation.
http://lewrockwell.com/trask/trask14.1.html

Free includes debt-free!

Cyril's picture

My belief is their intent was to provide you folks with

My belief** is their intent was to provide you folks with a republic for a protectorate, and neither a "government" or complete absence of delegated representation.

I understood a while ago G. Edward Griffin's interpretation of the founding events as, IMO, the most likely to be accurate:

"Which Is Best : Government, Anarchy, Or Protectorate?"

http://www.dailypaul.com/272863/which-is-best-government-ana...

Eventually, I've convinced myself with the idea that the first nail in the coffin came with an infamous fraudulent "concept" in that infamous section 4 of the 14th Amendment:

http://www.dailypaul.com/286406/the-american-people-can-star...

**(note it's just a belief)

'HTH,

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Belief in lies

Eventually the belief in lies becomes unaffordable.

If you look into the "founding" you can find the rats.

Here is a good start:

http://archive.org/stream/secretproceedin00convgoog#page/n14...

Free!

Joe

Cyril's picture

Ack'ed

Okay, thanks to Paul_S's comment and link, now I understand better why and what you pointed out to me.

Granted, I was overlooking some dots, for as early as 1787.

Very sad for 1776.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Sadder than imaginable.

I've been working on this understanding the power struggle between Liberty and Crime made Legal for decades.

The following is a new discovery for me, but it ties up a lot of loose ends.

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-90342/TS-416390.mp3

The original source is here:

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=9...

The vital questions asked are demands for accurate answers, otherwise the questions are not vital.

Joe

Cyril's picture

1788... 1868, that's still 80 years... isn't it?

Hmmm... Of course the "secret" aspect can always make one nervous, but I was mainly referring to Griffin's view on the historical context of debates of 1776, not 1788.

Besides, the 14th Amendment only came in 1868, History had plenty of opportunities to not follow the same course between 1788 and 1868. I see no evidence the founders and authors of the U.S. Constitution articles had anything even remotely ressembling to the 14A's extent in mind, by the late 1780s already. For what is to be put on account of 1868 and on, let's not lose sight that's a 80 years gap, even counting from 1788.

That looks like an entire lifetime-sized gap, to me.

Griffin's remarks, if not 100% valid, are at least still relevant and worth of interest, in that early 1780s context, IMO.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

#1 Will Inevitably Lead to #2

Read "Localism, A Philosophy of Government." You can't let the central government control monetary policy without it eventually controlling everything. In fact there are at least 13 things you can't allow to be controlled centrally without eventually everything becoming controlled centrally. That was sort of the point of the book, how to establish a decentralized Republic-type government which will stay that way.

Localism is for people who can still sleep at night even though somebody they don't know in a city they have never been is doing things differently. ("Localism, A Philosophy of Government" on Amazon for Kindle or Barnes and Noble ebook websites)

Would you be surprised to find out that

Number one is the government we had under the Articles of Confederation and number two is the government we got under the Constitution?

You are slaves of your own making.

A Country Founded by Geniuses but Run by Idiots

Attributed to Jeff Foxworthy:

If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for entering and remaining in the country illegally — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you have to get your parents’ permission to go on a field trip or to take an aspirin in school, but not to get an abortion — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you MUST show your identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor, or check out a library book and rent a video, but not to vote for who runs the government — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If the government wants to prevent stable, law-abiding citizens from owning gun magazines that hold more than ten rounds, but gives twenty F-16 fighter jets to the crazy new leaders in Egypt — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If, in the nation’s largest city, you can buy two 16-ounce sodas, but not one 24-ounce soda, because 24-ounces of a sugary drink might make you fat — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If an 80-year-old woman or a three-year-old girl who is confined to a wheelchair can be strip-searched by the TSA at the airport, but a woman in a burka or a hijab is only subject to having her neck and head searched — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If a seven-year-old boy can be thrown out of school for saying his teacher is “cute,” but hosting a sexual exploration or diversity class in grade school is perfectly acceptable — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If hard work and success are met with higher taxes and more government regulation and intrusion, while not working is rewarded with Food Stamps, WIC checks, Medicaid benefits, subsidized housing, and free cell phones — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If the government’s plan for getting people back to work is to provide incentives for not working, by granting 99 weeks of unemployment checks, without any requirement to prove that gainful employment was diligently sought, but couldn’t be found — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you pay your mortgage faithfully, denying yourself the newest big-screen TV, while your neighbor buys iPhones, time shares, a wall-sized do-it-all plasma screen TV and new cars, and the government forgives his debt when he defaults on his mortgage — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If being stripped of your Constitutional right to defend yourself makes you more “safe” according to the government — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

Cyril's picture

"A Country Founded By Geniuses, and Altered By Power-Hungry"

I'd rather put it...

"A Country Founded By Geniuses, and Altered By Power-Hungry"

... in 1868 :

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

See section 4, first sentence.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

They gave us the former,

we ended up with the latter.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

My understanding

Based on the reading I have done is a federal republic.

Ron Paul convert from the Heart of Dixie