19 votes

Maybe it's time something bad did happen

In regards to the open carry march on DC organized by Adam Kokesh. There has been a lot of detraction mostly by saying it would allow for agent provocateurs or just plain give the government a reason to use DHS tanks.

Well maybe it's time for something bad to happen. You can't plan your whole life around what might happen or what bad things could happen. If you do, you could end up living a life of constant fear. I ask, what kind of life is that? A life where we are so scared of something bad happening that we sacrifice our most innate rights to ensure it doesn't happen.

I always hear people here complaining about the majority sacrificing their liberties for security and how the majority of Americans today would rather be safe than free.

Then I look here and see those same individuals willing to sacrifice their liberties to make sure the government doesn't act out in aggression or create a incident out of a peaceful event. They are afraid of terrorists, and you are afraid of government. I ask you, how are you any different than them? Those who would sacrifice their liberties so willingly, how can you call yourself free?

Maybe it's time we stopped always thinking the worst and just did what is right.

(Just writing from the heart, sorry for bad grammar or incoherence.)



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Something already bad did

Something already bad did happen. Dr Ron Paul lost in 2008. The complete and total worldwide economic collapse is 100% guaranteed now.

some will march voluntary and maybe risk

more than others but soon we'll all march involuntary to that new
promised land called FEMA CAMP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

relish the remainder of your quasi freedoms for shortly they will be just pleasant memories of " The Good Old Days" ahhhhhhhh

ya'll remember back in 20----------------- and on and on it goes

get your ass back to work, now help him drag these dead ones outta
the bunkhouse , then get back in here cause I feel a stiffy comin on!

LOve the Revolution

I suggest everyone keep an

I suggest everyone keep an eye on Greece and what they are considering doing to those who can't pay taxes...

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/05/greece-consider...

Folks...the writing is on the wall. Bank confiscations just like Cyprus (courtesy of Dodd Frank) and forced labor camps like Greece is considering.

This is why the government is desperately trying to disarm us.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

Maybe it's time for responsible people to...

Act responsibly!!!

Provocative armed marches do not represent the sentiments of most 2A supporters. In fact, I would bet that most would be dissuaded from such a thing, knowing how it could set 2A support back for years.

But, let the squirrels gather their nuts.

=======
RON PAUL 2012

I think your premise may be that we need to reach a...

tipping point. Like the first time you ever swore in front of your parents.

Defeat the panda-industrial complex

I am dusk icon. anagram me.

Armed marches on DC and the

Armed marches on DC and the 50 state capitols has to be the most brain dead idea any libertarian has ever devised.

Adam needs to put away the cannabis for a while, and get his head straight. Join the rest of us in reality.

All it will take is one guy doing something stupid, in any one of 51 different settings, and the focus of the MSM (in all their objective glory) will be on the "newly violent" liberty movement.

March, but leave the guns at home.

I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be. Albert Einstein

There have been several armed marches on the state capitols

and nothing bad has happened.
Perhaps you should your head out of your ass.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

Yep, we would all get Hutareed

Yep, we would all get Hutareed

Is the Armed March the Right Thing? Really?

I agree with Joel Skousen that there are things that can be done in an intelligent manner that can advance freedom against tyranny even though Adam is correct that open carry should be universally allowed. Joel said it best in his World Affairs Brief (www.worldaffairsbrief.com, May 10, 2013):

Begin Text:

ARMED MARCH ON DC AN UNWISE PROVOCATION

There are smart ways to organize a demonstration at the nation’s capitol to gain public support against government tyranny and then there are moves that are really unwise. In my personal opinion, Adam Kokesh’s proposed armed march of several thousand volunteer protestors into Washington DC is not smart and potentially will get all future right wing demonstrations in favor of the Second Amendment banned as “prone to violence.” Over 3,000 have so far pledged on Kokesh’s Facebook page to attend the July 4th event.

I’ve never liked Adam Kokesh’s style—sitting before the mike in black tank top, shaved but bearded head, and always talking tough. It’s a militaristic style that attracts ex-military hot heads to the movement, and this latest gambit has that same uncareful style.

Kokesh is claiming to be taking several precautions to ensure safety and appear non-confrontational:

1. Only long guns and shotguns are going to be permitted in the march and demonstration.

2. They will be loaded weapons with safety settings “on.”

3. They will be slung across the back—no one will be holding a weapon.

On the other hand, there is much that is openly confrontational and militaristic in style:

1. They are going to “muster” in formation and march in formation to give it a quasi military appearance.

2. Kokesh says he will coordinate with DC police, and request an escort in order to ensure everyone’s safety. But, but if they refuse (guaranteed), he will do it anyway as “civil disobedience.”

3. It’s an open invitation to have government insert a provocateur among them who may fire a weapon and bring the demonstration under police fire.

Kokesh, a Marine veteran, says his purpose is to “To put government on notice that we won’t be intimidated.” He openly states on his Facebook event post that “this is an act of civil disobedience,” but stresses, “This will be a non-violent event, unless the government chooses to make it violent.”

It’s not that simple. When you openly violate a law about weapons, the police have little choice but to intervene—and they will. To make it worse, in his interview with Alex Jones, Kokesh spoke dangerous language when he said, “This is an armed revolt against the American government.”

You just can’t go around saying things like that even if the right to revolution is guaranteed by the Declaration of Independence. It is a serious step not to be taken for “light or transient” reasons and must have wide public support backed by a long list of grievances. It’s easy enough for constitutional conservatives and libertarians to produce such a list of technical violations, but they are not easily visible or provable to the common person.

The government’s current and future plans for taking away liberty are carefully masked by a myriad of executive orders, and hidden memos—sealed under the cover of National Security—hardly the stuff needed to rally the world around us. Kokesh and his brash statements show he hasn’t thought this out very well and appears to be heading for trouble.

His brash approach will guarantee that no police in Washington DC are going to cooperate with his demonstration. In fact, Metropolitan Police Chief Cathy Lanier said she will arrest Adam Kokesh and any other protesters who violate the district’s gun laws.

“Passing into the District of Columbia with loaded firearms is a violation of the law and we’ll have to treat it as such.”

I have no doubt he intends this to be a non-violent event, but the presence of loaded weapons, marching down the street where “open carry” is currently illegal is inviting a police confrontation. It appears to be Adam’s intent to merely get arrested, to make a statement, but it could turn violent if some agent provocateur decides to fire any kind of shot at all.

I too am an advocate of “open carry,” which refers to the public’s right to carry a loaded weapon openly in public as long as there is no intent to engage in a criminal act. It has always been viewed a less onerous than carrying a concealed weapon, though I’m not sure that’s really true. What is true is that when people can see a weapon openly, they have some opportunity to judge the holder and react.

Open carry is also an essential part of the Second Amendment because you can’t bear arms if you can never be seen in public with one. If every person has to have a permit to show up in public with a weapon, then a revolution against government tyranny could never get off the ground.

To ordinary people, open carry restrictions by cities or states are not viewed as a violation of the Second Amendment to “keep and bear arms” either for self-defense (which they think only takes place in the home) or for hunting (which doesn’t normally take place in cities).

Of course, more technical regulations like the registration of all weapons is not a technical violation of the right to keep and bear arms, but it violates the spirit of it. Historically, registration has always been a precursor to confiscation, and should be resisted strongly.

While I would agree that no jurisdiction should be able to ban open carry under the Second Amendment, hinting at an armed confrontation is not the way to go about getting those laws changed. My objection to this act of “civil disobedience” proposed by Kokesh is that it’s not going to help gain support for second amendment rights or motivate any official in DC to feel more comfortable about changing the law.

It may be empowering to the macho types who want to make a dramatic public statement, but most people will merely see it as a stupid violation of DC law and approve of police action to arrest them. Few will see this as standing up against something unjust, and it may assist government in further demonizing pro-gun people as extremists. It may even prompt more states to ban open carry.

We just had a great victory in stopping the latest assault rifle ban, but it’s only a first step. They’ll be back for more gun control and every misstep the movement makes which makes us look even more radical will only help the gun grabbers, so let’s be wise about carrying weapons in public. ...

-Bloatedtoad

It is gratifying to know you "get it".

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin

The Powder Magazine

I don't think we ought to assemble on the village green over those troops who are marching on our powder magazine. Something bad might happen. Besides, they outnumber us greatly and are real soldiers. We're just farmers. Better to stay home and farm.

But what if they...!!

What if they have agents of crown there who will shoot at the soldiers. What if they come for our swords and daggers and search our homes because of this? What if they print in the newspapers that we started this? What if they call us terrorists?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

You're both being coy

You want to start the tempestuous sea? You want to take responsibility for it, even though the other guy was the criminal, and can still be prosecuted, should men and women with proper legal authority stand up to their responsibilities? If you start it, recognize that the storm may very well take innocent people you love, and many others, unrelated to your intent. Ron Paul went on NBC with the argument that our civil war was avoidable, we could have bought slaves. He was ridiculed. People here, ought to be arguing ways to prevent armed conflict, as opposed to inviting it.

if a peaceful assembly

Is an invitation for conflict than how are we the violent ones? How are we the ones who are inviting it? The COLD hard fact is you see a difference between this and an unarmed march. Guns don't make you violent contrary to popular authoritarian belief. You support the the 2nd amendment equivalent of free speech zones.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

No I don't

I just recognize that the environment is volatile. I think Adam Kokesh sometimes exercises poor judgement. He smoked a bong on his tv show. He protested for dancing at national monuments. For many people, that's a little bit out there.

Equating carrying firearms to

Equating carrying firearms to smoking a bowl on a tv show. Yeah, ok you're totally are making your case... You want to deny it but you think possession of a firearm makes you violent or at least symbolically violent. It does not, anyone who considers it to be violent should take a long hard look at their perspective.

FYI, Jefferson's favorite thing to do was dance, it was shameful and ironic that it was outlawed at his monument. That protest was just, the response was a ridiculous example of the police state.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

The Tempestuous Sea

The sea is all around us and we didn't start it. Some people are more enveloped by it than others but the time will come when none will escape. If those that can still stand now do not, then there will be no time to make such a stand in the future. Maybe if I lived in Texas rather than New York, I'd be feeling more calm about the state of my personal liberties at the moment. Fact is THEY have already criminalized me and now I either have to flee or stand for my rights.

During this exact time of year in 1775 there were still plenty of patriots living in the colonies who had not experienced the tempestuous sea while others had. The same debate raged then. It raged on for over a year, ending only on 4 July 1776, after the Continental Congress received a response to their latest petition which. Said response declared them all criminals and outside the law. At that point, it kind of becomes a no-brainer, does it not?

That's a good point

I would be 100% behind a march by New Yorkers in their home state.

Maybe it's time for something

Maybe it's time for something bad to happen, as if something bad hasn't happened in a while.

What, seriously? We've been consumed by the badness.

Maybe it's time for something good to happen too.

Haven't we already had enough of the bad things?

That is all we hear about...The bad and the ugly.

Whatever happened to the good?

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

How Long

Are you willing to be stomped on until you finally get it? I agree, we want positive things to happen. I've had enough. I am tired of living like a slave.

What a terrible argument

You don't need to display firearms to declare the right. You have the right. Sheriff Mack took a case to the Supreme Court to prove a local Sheriff trumps federal officials acting unconstitutionally. Afterwards he felt it was unnecessary, because all he did was affirm what was already the law.

If you've seen the interviews with Californians who don't even know what Memorial Day is, this is what's out there. Make a stand when it matters. Let the courts and the states and natural events take their course. Civil disobedience is a very specific citizen action, when all other avenues are exhausted. Imo, they aren't. It's definitely not an action to take up because you are impatient. It only works if the moment is so ripe, that people can not in good conscience reasonably oppose you. Do you believe that's now, and this march has the moral authority to overwhelm the gun grabbers? The 2nd amendment just held in Congress, in the wake of Sandy Hook. Why now?

Are you completely daft?

We have the right to assemble and the right to keep and bear arms.

"You don't need to display firearms to declare the right."

You do when "displaying" a firearm and assembling with others who have firearms are constitutionally recognized natural rights.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

Yeah, but your's isn't an innocent "assembly"

You're not marching because it's what you do every 4th of July.

You're saying, "We've had enough. FU."

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but that's reaction, or at best action. They're criminals. Why should you, as a citizen need to act?

And why would you choose DC metro cops as your flashpoint?

The 2nd amendment, the right of individuals to bear arms, has been affirmed by the Supreme Court, and Congress, in the wake of Sandy Hook. Is it the right time to test the District of Columbia on gun regulations?

My point in recent threads is Adam Kokesh doesn't think these events through. Dancing at monuments?

The gun grabbing nuts should be defeated by the citizens of New York and Colorado.

Should you save your affirmative, trained capability for the moment when all legal remedy has been exhausted?

TwelveOhOne's picture

"And why would you choose DC metro cops as your flashpoint?"

Perhaps they're very scared. They might be thinking that he's arranging this armed group, not to just walk in and walk out, but to walk in, then change their plans to arrest Obama, and continue walking.

"Dancing at monuments?"

You say that with sarcasm and disdain. Why should moving one's body purposefully be an illegal act, anywhere?

I'd say it has gone far enough. 3% agreed when we became a nation -- the rest wanted to remain subjects of England.

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
http://jsjinc.net - Jin Shin Jyutsu (energy healing)

I don't plan my whole life

I don't plan my whole life around what might happen or what bad things could happen. My plans are guided by the principle of making good things happen.

Something bad...

Something bad is what I fear. I have a feeling that a lot of people who support this march just simply have nothing to lose. I also fear they think the reason they have nothing is that they're victims.

I don't want to get drawn into a domestic guerrilla war. This march may not lead there. It could go just swimmingly. However, the attitude of its supporters, including Adam, are such that they seem to be looking for a fight.

Remember what Ron Paul just reminded us of. "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword." -Jesus

I'll fight if 'they' start it. I wont fight necessarily if Adam starts it.

They started it a long time

They started it a long time ago when they began subverting the constitution and kicked it into high gear with 911 false flag killing 3000 Americans... all these false wars have killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and millions of foreigners. But hey we should wait till tyranny grows even stronger before we put a stop to it... Sigh!

Typical American attitude if it ain't knocking on my door at the moment it's not my problems...

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

What fucking idiot cowards

What fucking idiot cowards voted this truth down?

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

dunno who downvoted but it

dunno who downvoted but it wasn't true. Hundreds of thousands of Americans haven't died in the last decade of war.

nice try but no cigar at

nice try but no cigar at trying to make a false argument. nowhere did I say "decade" I said all these false wars:

Korean War 1950–1953 33,686 2,830 36,516 92,134 128,650 4,759 Note: 4,759 MIA-See Note E below
U.S.S.R. Cold War 1947–1991 32 12 44 [51]
China Cold War 1950–1972 16 16 [51]
Vietnam War 1955–1975 47,424 10,785 58,209 153,303 211,454 2,489[60] [21][61]
1958 Lebanon crisis 1958 1[62] 5[62][63] 6 1+[64] 7+ [65]
Bay of Pigs Invasion 1961 4 4 4 [66]
Dominican Republic 1965–1966 27 20 47 283 330 [58][51][67]
Iran 1980 0 8 8 4 12 0 [68]
El Salvador Civil War 1980–1992 22 15 37 35 [69][70][71][72]
Beirut deployment 1982–1984 256 266 169 [73]
Persian Gulf escorts 1987–1988 39 0 39 31
Invasion of Grenada 1983 18 1 19 119 [73]
1986 Bombing of Libya 1986 2 0 2 0 2 [74]
Invasion of Panama 1989 23 40 324 [73]
Gulf War 1990–1991 149 145 294 849 1,143 0[75] [76]
Operation Provide Comfort 1991-1996 1 18 19 4 23 [77][78]
Somalia 1992–1993 29 14 43 153 [73]
Haiti 1994–1995 1 4 3 [73]
Colombia 1994–present 0 8[79][80] 8 [81]
Bosnia-Herzegovina 1995–2004 7 5 12 6 [82]
NATO bombing of Yugoslavia 1999 1 19 20 2+ 22+ 0 [83]
Afghanistan 2001–present 1,435 368 2,031 9,971 12,035 1 [84][f][85]
Iraq War 2003–2011 3,542 935 4,487 31,965 36,395 2 [84]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualti...

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!