76 votes

Cicero 54 B.C.

"We are taxed in our bread and our wine, in our incomes and our investments, on our land and on our property not only for base creatures who do not deserve the name of men, but for foreign nations, complaisant nations who will bow to us and accept our largesse and promise us to assist in the keeping of the peace - these mendicant nations who will destroy us when we show a moment of weakness or our treasury is bare, and surely it is becoming bare! We are taxed to maintain legions on their soil, in the name of law and order and the Pax Romana, a document which will fall into dust when it pleases our allies and our vassals. We keep them in precarious balance only with our gold. Is the heartblood of our nation worth these? Were they bound to us with ties of love, they would not ask our gold. They take our very flesh, and they hate and despise us. And who shall say we are worthy of more? ... When a government becomes powerful it is destructive, extravagant and violent; it is an usurer which takes bread from innocent mouths and deprives honorable men of their substance, for votes with which to perpetuate itself."



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Has it been figured out?

Has anyone confirmed that he said or wrote this? It doesn't sound like a Latin translation. It just doesn't have that Latin bastardness to it. (dunno how else to say it! lol)

Cyril's picture

While I had been exposed to a few french translations

While I had been exposed to a few french translations of Cicero thanks to a friend of my father 25+ years ago (forget our public highschools), I never suspected until now this ancient author had been vulgarized so much by scholars or anonymous folks.

I looked up more last night and couldn't find it anywhere in the resources I mentioned below. Although it is nice to read and indeed close to Cicero's style and spirit, it does seem it was likely made up. Indeed, I don't recall ever reading it before, in the late 80s :/

I still warmly recommend re-reading Cicero's essays, and speeches in defense or accusation cases he made before Senate in his time between 80 BC and 44 BC. His eloquence won't disappoint, anyway.

(Links below)

'HTH,

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

well, whether he said it or not . . .

it is true.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

A Libertarian Legacy

" I who if I speak as I ought on public matters am thought mad," he wrote Atticus, "if I say what expediency demands, appear a slave, and if I am silent, seem oppressed and crushed. . . . What if I choose to give up and take refuge in a life of leisure? Impossible. I have to take part in the fight. He added: I am sustained and strengthened by literature, and prefer to sit in your little chair under the bust of Aristotle, than in our consuls’ chairs of office."

http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/marcus-tullius-cicero-...

Cyril's picture

Sorry to disappoint,

Sorry to disappoint, but "... the traitor is the plague" quote (mentioned below) was probably not written by Cicero. After looking at the comprehensive traductions latin to english and latin to french, it is nowhere to be found.

It was frequent that past scholars would interpret ancient texts like Cicero's and make up their own versions, more palatable to the general public, simpler, often shortened, with a style resembling to the authors'.

However, one very likely source of inspiration for that "... the traitor is the plague" is "Cicero, Against Catiline" (Catiline: Cicero's enemy, that Cicero would accuse, before Senate, with his bombastic eloquence)

Enjoy Cicero, accusing not only Catiline, but also a broader corruption of the state, from mark [Cic. Catil. 4.8] and on - I find the original Cicero even tastier in the eloquence, in fact:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0019%3Atext%3DCatil.%3Aspeech%3D4%3Asection%3D10

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Speech

Awesome source for the online student of Cicero!

'cyril'. Thanks! It practically gives the transcript of Cisero's landmark case which instituted the legal concept of 'Cui bono', dramatized in this video I've watched over and over -- highly recommend -- because in those days, Cis could have lost his life as horrendously as his client/defendant had he lost the case...the mother of the accused did not even want him to take her son's case! Them were high stakes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUcDdUG22JU

"If you want something you've never had before, you have to do something you've never done before." Debra Medina

That was great

Thanks!

Not Cicero

From Wikiquote (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Cicero):

The quote is not from Cicero's actual writing, but from a speech entitled Cicero's Prognosis delivered by Justice Millard Caldwell of the Florida Supreme Court to the 22nd Annual Meeting of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc. see http://www.aapsonline.org/brochures/cicero.htm

True dat.

True dat.

Religious Ethics & U$ury.

quoting Cicero's conclusion, in the last line above = " it is an usurer which takes bread from innocent mouths and deprives honorable men of their substance,"

Please read a well researched article on this subject, -
"Whether it is a sin to take usury for money lent? "
http://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ECON30...

[I answer that,
To take usury for money lent is unjust in itself, because this is to
sell what does not exist, and this evidently leads to inequality which is contrary to justice.] ~ read on, ~

I don't think he actually said this

Can you source it? I googled it and apparently it is fake.

No train to Stockholm.

Cyril's picture

This was quoted seemingly by Honorable Millard F. Caldwell

This was quoted seemingly by Honorable Millard F. Caldwell, Justice - Supreme Court, Tallahassee, Florida, in 1965, I guess from some printed copy or microfilm he had access to (no web at the time... ;) :

http://www.aapsonline.org/brochures/cicero.htm

Now, I wasn't able to find the quote in context of definitive reference materials online, by what's indexed via search engines alone anyway, however it may not be impossible to dig it up from more comprehensive resources, such as:

http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=s...

Millard F. Caldwell :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millard_F._Caldwell

'HTH,

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture

('Told you we can still learn an awful lot from Rome the fallen)

(I told you, we can still learn an awful lot from Rome, the fallen)

Cicero also wrote this short, punching piece, IMO:

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/marcus_cicero_quote_1c29

Do not blame Caesar, blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom and danced in his path and given him triumphal processions. Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of the new wonderful good society which shall now be Rome's, interpreted to mean more money, more ease, more security, and more living fatly at the expense of the industrious.

...

"Ouch." :/

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Gilligan's picture

Hey AverageJoe, what is this from?

And how can I find it? I think Cicero might be worth reading. THANKS!

Google is government.

Cyril's picture

Couple links

This quote in the OP can also be found here:

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/cicero

For more of Cicero, one can check out Project Gutenberg:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?query=cicero

Cicero's writings/speeches are likely popular on many Latin resources.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Sounds like our "Special Relationship" with Israel

is not without precedent:

"Is the heartblood of our nation worth these? Were they bound to us with ties of love, they would not ask our gold. They take our very flesh, and they hate and despise us..."

http://youtu.be/ilbHSuhywYU


http://youtu.be/ilbHSuhywYU

Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
https://www.youtube.com/user/dasruda

Dead on

I sometimes imagine if some Catholic psycho lobbyists got the US to call Ireland (I'm of Irish heritage) the "Catholic state" and started supporting apartheid and cleansing of non-Catholics... makes me sick.
Zionism is the plague of the world. Zionists have our politicians and media terrified. They despise individual liberty. How many have to die for them?

Judaism above Democracy.

Israeli bill would elevate Judaism above democracy -
http://rt.com/news/judaism-democracy-religion-state-855/

while zion'(s agencies, UN, etc.) preach demon-cracy, sign'T'fick secularism & gay-rights world-wide.

Judaism of the Talmud is blatant racism, with license of usury.

Cyril's picture

^^^ Watch and HEAR.

^^^ Watch and HEAR.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture

A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But...

A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I'll bump

to that.

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

Could

Could be written today. Liberty will win.

History repeats itself....

it's deja vu all over again.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Cyril's picture

History actually stutters, also.

History actually stutters, also.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture

Huge BUMP. Great find.

Huge BUMP.

Great find.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture

Ah! Folks, I don't mean to brag (okay, a lil bit) but I told you

Ah! Folks, I don't mean to brag (okay, a lil bit), but I told you it would be a good idea to re-read the Romans; right there:

http://www.dailypaul.com/286406/the-american-people-can-star...

Keep up with the efforts, folks.

Same for Jefferson, Thoreau, Pascal, Bastiat, Jean Baptiste Say, etc, too.

Now is the time. More than EVER.

Make sure you can shut up TODAY's statists in SECONDS, any time.

The lib-killers. The progre-thieves. The neo-criminals.

It's time to shut them up, by them going completely DRY:

Confronted with History. And the stubborn FACTS. Our best allies for truth.

For liberty.

Enough with their piles of lies and inhumane nonsense, already!

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

What a splendid find

indeed!

Nice! Proof some things never

Nice! Proof some things never change and government is the very seed of destruction of a nation! Its been going on for thousands of years when will humanity grow up and finally outgrow the nonsense of government? It is simply a haven for psychopaths and criminals!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!