33 votes

Alternate Universe? Illinois becomes a SHALL-Issue CCW State w/Overwhelming Majority! OMG! OMG!

Um, WOW? Does your state's CCW 'allow' you to carry at restaurant/bars? Because the traditionally anti-gun IL, does, now (even with some caveat):

"But lawmakers said the bill would allow people to carry concealed weapons in restaurants where alcohol is served but more than half of the sales are for food."


Rep. Brandon Phelps, D-Harrisburg, center left, and Sen. Gary Forby, D-Benton, center right, co-sponsors of the bill, celebrate passage of their concealed carry bill on the Senate floor at the State Capitol in Springfield, Ill. (E. Jason Wambsgans / Chicago Tribune / May 31, 2013)

Illinois lawmakers approve concealed carry gun bill

By Ray Long and Monique Garcia Clout Street
8:13 p.m. CDT, May 31, 2013

SPRINGFIELD --- State lawmakers today approved compromise legislation to set up rules on who can carry concealed guns and where they can be carried.

Illinois is the last state in the nation not to have some form of concealed carry on the books, but a federal appeals court overturned the state’s long standing ban in December and gave lawmakers until June 9 to come up with regulations to allow it.

"Don't let your constituents go off the cliff, this is a historic day for law abiding gun owners in this state," said sponsoring Rep. Brandon Phelps, D-Harrisburg.

[...]

A five-year concealed weapons permit would be issued to applicants. Law enforcement could object, and an applicant could appeal to a seven-member board designed to have people with such credentials as former judges or FBI agents. A person would have to complete 16 hours of training before getting a gun.

===============================================================

The Governor has yet to sign, but in light of SCOTUS ruling and the majority vote in the IL legislature, it's more than likely a sure thing, now.

===============================================================

Via TTAG:

BREAKING: Concealed Carry Bill Passes Illinois Senate, House

Posted on May 31, 2013 by Dan Zimmerman
By John Boch

Illinois is now poised to join the 49 other states in America by throwing its antiquated prohibition on self-defense outside the home into the dustbin of history. The Illinois Senate passed HB183 earlier today by a margin of 45-12-1 (36 votes are required to over-ride a governor’s veto). The House approved it moments ago by a vote of 89-28 (71 votes required to over-ride). It’s time for a glass of champagne. FINALLY!

John is president of Guns Save Life. This post originally appeared at gunssavelife.com and is reprinted here with permission.

===============================================================

*** Still insanely restrictive, It's heavily focused on mental capacity determination and BS state-leaning determination as to whom is what and why, and does protect CCW holders from being disclosed under FOIA, in light of NY MSM a-holes endangering gunowners. All in all, sucks, compared to say AZ, but it would be the first time IL became a shall-issue CCW state.

===============================================================

Read it for yourselves:

Actual Bill, as passed

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=183&GA...

Last Action
Date Chamber Action
5/31/2013 House Passed Both Houses

Synopsis As Introduced

Amends the Electronic Fund Transfer Act. Removes the requirement for a person operating a terminal to disclose surcharges for usage of the terminal by a sign on the terminal. Effective immediately.

Replaces everything after the enacting clause. Creates the Firearm Concealed Carry Act. Allows residents and non-residents who meet specified qualifications to apply for a license to carry a concealed firearm in this State.

The license is valid for 5 years and the license fee is $150 for a resident and $300 for a non-resident. Allows any law enforcement agency to object to a license applicant based upon a reasonable suspicion that the applicant is a danger to himself or herself or others, or a threat to public safety. Allows the Department of State Police to object to a license applicant with 5 or more arrests for any reason or 3 or more gang-related arrests within the 7 years preceding the date of application. These objections are reviewed by a Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board composed of 7 members appointed by the Governor with the advice and consent of the Senate.

The Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board determines by a preponderance of the evidence whether the applicant is eligible or ineligible for a license.

Prohibits a licensee from carrying a concealed handgun into certain specified locations.

Requires the Department of State Police to approve a 16 hour training course for new license applicants and 3 hour course for license renewal, and to certify course instructors.

Establishes training course requirements.

Creates a task force to develop a plan by March 1, 2014 to allow for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card and concealed carry license designation to appear on a person's Illinois driver's license or Illinois identification card.

Preempts home rule on the regulation, licensing, possession, registration, and transportation of concealed handguns as covered by the Act. Creates the School Administrator Reporting of Mental Health Clear and Present Danger Determinations Law.

Requires the principal of a public elementary or secondary school, or his or her designee, and the chief administrative officer of a private elementary or secondary school or a public or private community college, college, or university, or his or her designee, to report to the Department of Human Services when a student is determined to pose a clear and present danger to himself, herself, or to others within 24 hours of the determination.

Amends the Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities Code to make conforming changes and require notification to the Department of State Police Firearm Owners Identification Card Office no later than 7 days after entry of a court order for an adjudication as a mentally disabled or disabled person.

Requires reporting a developmental disability or clear and present danger determination within 24 hours of the determination to the Department of Human Services, and the Department of Human Services must notify the Department of State Police.

Firearms in the possession of a person adjudicated as a mentally disabled or disabled person must be ordered by the court to deliver the firearms to a person with a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card for safekeeping. The adjudicated person shall also be ordered to surrender his or her Firearm Owner's Identification Card. Amends the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act (FOID).

Defines "addicted to narcotics" for purposes of disqualifying a person for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card.

Changes the disqualification for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card as a "mental defective" to "mentally disabled".

Adds to the definition of "mentally disabled" an adjudication as a disabled person, a finding of guilty but mentally ill, or a determination that a person is a clear and present danger to himself, herself, or to others.

Defines "clear and present danger". Preempts home rule on the regulation, licensing, possession, registration, and transportation of concealed handguns and ammunition for concealed handguns as covered by the FOID Act.

Preempts home rule on the prohibition of possession or ownership of assault weapons unless the ordinance is enacted before, on, or within 10 days of the effective date of this Act and any amendments thereafter.

Amends The Freedom of Information Act.

Exempts from disclosure the names and information of persons who have applied for or received a concealed carry license and certain records under the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.

Amends the Open Meetings Act to close meetings and deliberations of the Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board.

Amends the Department of State Police Law of the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois and the State Finance Act.

Creates the State Police Firearm Services Fund for fee revenue from the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act and Firearm Concealed Carry Act.

The Department of State Police may use the Fund for its lawful purposes, mandates, functions, and duties under the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act and Firearm Concealed Carry Act.

Creates the Mental Health Reporting Fund for fee revenue from the Firearm Concealed Carry Act for the Department of State Police and the Department of Human Services for duties in collecting and reporting data on mental health records and ensuring firearm possession prohibitions related to mental health are enforced. Surplus money in the Fund may be used for mental health treatment programs. Amends the Criminal Code of 2012 and other Acts to make conforming changes. Effective immediately.

Senate Floor Amendment No. 6

Removes reference to "concealed" handguns in the preemption Section of the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.

Senate Floor Amendment No. 7

Changes the appointment of the member representing the National Rifle Association to the task force on consolidation of the Firearm Owner's Identification Card and the concealed carry license from appointment by the Speaker of the House of Representatives to appointment by the Secretary of State.

***********************************************************

UPDATE 1: Recent 2A-related developments in the Land of Barry Soetoro

Illinois Supreme Court Catches Up on the Second Amendment

Hans von Spakovsky
September 19, 2013 at 3:05 pm

The Illinois Supreme Court has finally joined the rest of the nation and the U.S. Supreme Court in recognizing the right of Illinois residents to exercise their Second Amendment rights.

On September 12 in Illinois v. Aguilar, the Illinois court voided a state statute that made the “aggravated unlawful use of a weapon” a felony. But the “aggravated unlawful use of a weapon” was defined so broadly that it was, for all intents and purposes, a complete ban on the concealed carry of any firearm in public.

Illinois’s law had already been found unconstitutional by a federal court in Moore v. Madigan (2012). In fact, the federal court had given the state 180 days to pass a law that allowed concealed carry, and the state implemented a new law on the final day of the deadline. Illinois was the last state in the country to drop its ban on concealed carry, but already some elected officials in Chicago “are attempting an end run around” the new state law.

[** meh: it's from the usually neoCon-ish Heritage Fdn., but this one? Good to go: it's basically a blow-by-blow 2A news update blurb]

***********************************************************

BREAKING: Illinois Becomes Sixth Constitutional Carry State?

By Dan Zimmerman on September 17, 2013

That’s what today’s court ruling seems to indicate. If you’ll remember, the Illinois supreme court ruled last week that the right to keep and bear arms as enumerated in the bill of rights extends outside the home. A radical idea to be sure. What’s the practical effect of that? It’s this: “A Cook County judge reversed herself Monday and dismissed weapons charges against a Chicago man after a recent Illinois Supreme Court ruling that called part of the state’s gun law unconstitutional.” The defendant, Deafalla Haddad, bought a .45 and began carrying it after he was attacked in his car. In Cook County. Illinois. When he was stopped for speeding in December . . .

As chicagotribune.com reports, he informed the officer that he was packing the .45 in a holster and was promptly arrested and charged with unlawful use of a weapon.

Under Illinois statutes at the time, carrying a concealed firearm was illegal. But in February 2013, the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals struck down parts of the state law, and in March Fakhoury filed a motion to dismiss the charges against Haddad.

Judge reverses herself, charges dropped in gun case after ruling

By George Houde Special to the Tribune
6:43 p.m. CDT, September 16, 2013

A Cook County judge reversed herself Monday and dismissed weapons charges against a Chicago man after a recent Illinois Supreme Court ruling that called part of the state's gun law unconstitutional.

Cook County Circuit Judge Ellen Mandeltort last week denied Deafalla Haddad's request to drop the charges.

But the Supreme Court ruled Thursday that part of the state's gun law was unconstitutional and advised prosecutors to drop charges in certain cases. That ruling fell in step with a federal court decision earlier this year declaring that the state's gun laws violated the U.S. Constitution.

Ill. Supreme Court strikes down part of gun law
Small number of weapons cases likely will be affected

By Steve Schmadeke Tribune reporter
7:29 p.m. CDT, September 14, 2013

Cook County prosecutors will drop weapons charges pending against a small number of licensed firearms owners after the Illinois Supreme Court ruled this week that part of a state gun law is unconstitutional.

The Illinois Supreme Court ruled Thursday that state prosecutors must follow a ruling from a federal appeals court last year that ended Illinois' status as the last state without a concealed carry law.

The ruling from the state's highest court affects only a portion of a law prohibiting people from carrying guns outside their homes. Cases of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon brought against people who have valid FOID cards and were carrying firearms will not be pursued, prosecutors and defense attorneys said.

***********************************************************

BREAKING: Illinois Supreme Court Rules Right to Keep and Bear Arms Extends Outside the Home

By Robert Farago on September 12, 2013

The Illinois Supreme Court has just ruled in the case of Alberto Aguilar v. The People of the State of Illinois. Click here for the brief. Click here to read the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence’s brief arguing that “the carrying of firearms in public places creates serious public safety risks.” Click here for the Illinois Supreme Court’s ruling. As follows: “The principal issue in this case is whether section 24-1.6(a)(1), (a)(3)(A) of the Illinois aggravated unlawful use of weapons (AUUW) statute (720 ILCS 5/24-1.6(a)(1), (a)(3)(A) (West 2008)) violates the right to keep and bear arms, as guaranteed by the second amendment to the United States Constitution (U.S.Const., amend. II). We hold that it does.” In other words, they’ve turfed the law against bearing weapons outside the home. As you’d expect, the court’s decision cites Heller and McDonald Supreme Court rulings and tips its proverbial hat at Moore . . .

As the Seventh Circuit correctly noted, neither Heller nor McDonald expressly limits the second amendment’s protections to the home. On the contrary both decisions contain language strongly suggesting if not outright confirming that the second amendment right to keep and bear arms extends beyond the home. Moreover, if Heller means what it says, and “individual self-defense” is indeed “the central component” of the second amendment right to keep and bear arms (Heller, 554 U.S. at 599), then it would make little sense to restrict that right to the home, as “[c]onfrontations are not limited to the home.” Moore, 702 F.3d at 935-36. Indeed, Heller itself recognizes as much when it states that “the right to have arms *** was by the time of the founding understood to be an individual right protecting against both public and private violence.” (Emphasis added.) Heller, 554 U.S. at 593-94

The only fly in the ointment: the Illinois justices did NOT quash Mr. Aguilar’s conviction for underage possession. Once again, that Heller bit about “reasonable restrictions” has come home to roost.

BREAKING: Illinois Concealed Carry Amendatory Veto Overridden

By Dan Zimmerman on July 9, 2013

On the last day before a federal court order to enact a workable concealed carry law would have, by default, allowed constitutional carry in the Land of Lincoln, the House and Senate took Governor Sockpuppet’s Pat Quinn’s amendatory veto and wished him a hearty ba fungul. And with that, Illinois joins the rest of the nation by, at long last, recognizing the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and putting in place at least some form of concealed carry. Is it all it could be? Of course not. This is Illinois, we’re talking about. The most corrupt state in the nation. And with competition from locales like New Jersey, New York and California, that really means something. But it’s a huge step forward, particularly for the downstate population who’s chafed under the iron-fisted control of Chicago for decades. It’s been a long time coming. Click here for the details of the approved legislation.

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updated

UPDATE 1: Recent 2A-related developments in the Land of Barry Soetoro

Illinois Supreme Court Catches Up on the Second Amendment

Hans von Spakovsky
September 19, 2013 at 3:05 pm

The Illinois Supreme Court has finally joined the rest of the nation and the U.S. Supreme Court in recognizing the right of Illinois residents to exercise their Second Amendment rights.

On September 12 in Illinois v. Aguilar, the Illinois court voided a state statute that made the “aggravated unlawful use of a weapon” a felony. But the “aggravated unlawful use of a weapon” was defined so broadly that it was, for all intents and purposes, a complete ban on the concealed carry of any firearm in public.

Illinois’s law had already been found unconstitutional by a federal court in Moore v. Madigan (2012). In fact, the federal court had given the state 180 days to pass a law that allowed concealed carry, and the state implemented a new law on the final day of the deadline. Illinois was the last state in the country to drop its ban on concealed carry, but already some elected officials in Chicago “are attempting an end run around” the new state law.

[** meh: it's from the usually neoCon-ish Heritage Fdn., but this one? Good to go: it's basically a blow-by-blow 2A news update blurb]

***********************************************************

BREAKING: Illinois Becomes Sixth Constitutional Carry State?

By Dan Zimmerman on September 17, 2013

That’s what today’s court ruling seems to indicate. If you’ll remember, the Illinois supreme court ruled last week that the right to keep and bear arms as enumerated in the bill of rights extends outside the home. A radical idea to be sure. What’s the practical effect of that? It’s this: “A Cook County judge reversed herself Monday and dismissed weapons charges against a Chicago man after a recent Illinois Supreme Court ruling that called part of the state’s gun law unconstitutional.” The defendant, Deafalla Haddad, bought a .45 and began carrying it after he was attacked in his car. In Cook County. Illinois. When he was stopped for speeding in December . . .

As chicagotribune.com reports, he informed the officer that he was packing the .45 in a holster and was promptly arrested and charged with unlawful use of a weapon.

Under Illinois statutes at the time, carrying a concealed firearm was illegal. But in February 2013, the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals struck down parts of the state law, and in March Fakhoury filed a motion to dismiss the charges against Haddad.

Judge reverses herself, charges dropped in gun case after ruling

By George Houde Special to the Tribune
6:43 p.m. CDT, September 16, 2013

A Cook County judge reversed herself Monday and dismissed weapons charges against a Chicago man after a recent Illinois Supreme Court ruling that called part of the state's gun law unconstitutional.

Cook County Circuit Judge Ellen Mandeltort last week denied Deafalla Haddad's request to drop the charges.

But the Supreme Court ruled Thursday that part of the state's gun law was unconstitutional and advised prosecutors to drop charges in certain cases. That ruling fell in step with a federal court decision earlier this year declaring that the state's gun laws violated the U.S. Constitution.

Ill. Supreme Court strikes down part of gun law
Small number of weapons cases likely will be affected

By Steve Schmadeke Tribune reporter
7:29 p.m. CDT, September 14, 2013

Cook County prosecutors will drop weapons charges pending against a small number of licensed firearms owners after the Illinois Supreme Court ruled this week that part of a state gun law is unconstitutional.

The Illinois Supreme Court ruled Thursday that state prosecutors must follow a ruling from a federal appeals court last year that ended Illinois' status as the last state without a concealed carry law.

The ruling from the state's highest court affects only a portion of a law prohibiting people from carrying guns outside their homes. Cases of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon brought against people who have valid FOID cards and were carrying firearms will not be pursued, prosecutors and defense attorneys said.

***********************************************************

BREAKING: Illinois Supreme Court Rules Right to Keep and Bear Arms Extends Outside the Home

By Robert Farago on September 12, 2013

The Illinois Supreme Court has just ruled in the case of Alberto Aguilar v. The People of the State of Illinois. Click here for the brief. Click here to read the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence’s brief arguing that “the carrying of firearms in public places creates serious public safety risks.” Click here for the Illinois Supreme Court’s ruling. As follows: “The principal issue in this case is whether section 24-1.6(a)(1), (a)(3)(A) of the Illinois aggravated unlawful use of weapons (AUUW) statute (720 ILCS 5/24-1.6(a)(1), (a)(3)(A) (West 2008)) violates the right to keep and bear arms, as guaranteed by the second amendment to the United States Constitution (U.S.Const., amend. II). We hold that it does.” In other words, they’ve turfed the law against bearing weapons outside the home. As you’d expect, the court’s decision cites Heller and McDonald Supreme Court rulings and tips its proverbial hat at Moore . . .

As the Seventh Circuit correctly noted, neither Heller nor McDonald expressly limits the second amendment’s protections to the home. On the contrary both decisions contain language strongly suggesting if not outright confirming that the second amendment right to keep and bear arms extends beyond the home. Moreover, if Heller means what it says, and “individual self-defense” is indeed “the central component” of the second amendment right to keep and bear arms (Heller, 554 U.S. at 599), then it would make little sense to restrict that right to the home, as “[c]onfrontations are not limited to the home.” Moore, 702 F.3d at 935-36. Indeed, Heller itself recognizes as much when it states that “the right to have arms *** was by the time of the founding understood to be an individual right protecting against both public and private violence.” (Emphasis added.) Heller, 554 U.S. at 593-94

The only fly in the ointment: the Illinois justices did NOT quash Mr. Aguilar’s conviction for underage possession. Once again, that Heller bit about “reasonable restrictions” has come home to roost.

BREAKING: Illinois Concealed Carry Amendatory Veto Overridden

By Dan Zimmerman on July 9, 2013

On the last day before a federal court order to enact a workable concealed carry law would have, by default, allowed constitutional carry in the Land of Lincoln, the House and Senate took Governor Sockpuppet’s Pat Quinn’s amendatory veto and wished him a hearty ba fungul. And with that, Illinois joins the rest of the nation by, at long last, recognizing the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and putting in place at least some form of concealed carry. Is it all it could be? Of course not. This is Illinois, we’re talking about. The most corrupt state in the nation. And with competition from locales like New Jersey, New York and California, that really means something. But it’s a huge step forward, particularly for the downstate population who’s chafed under the iron-fisted control of Chicago for decades. It’s been a long time coming. Click here for the details of the approved legislation.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

Step across the border into Indiana

You don't need government permission to open/conceal carry anywhere except court houses and most other government buildings. At one of the last open carry rally at the state house in downtown Indianapolis (there's been more than 3 this year) there were around 300 open carriers, maybe 4 police officers that were all openly favour of the 2nd amendment.

Illinois has some work to do. But in the mean time.. if your looking for 2nd amendment friendly territory.

Government permission?

This is just the beginning of How it starts
To get permission to have a gun
They are going to make it so costly
A normal low income citizens will not be able to afford it
This is how they separate a % of normal people
IT IS STILL GUN CONTROL!

Cacama

It's the same idea as the 1934 NFA act

better than previous ideas in Illinois but still unconstitutional.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

Its a great step but.....

I'm appalled that we have to have politicians say who can and who can't when the second amendment is clear on this!

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves." William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783
"I know major allies who fund them" Gen. Dempsey

permission?

>asking the government for permission
>freedom&liberty

.ro

great news for the people of Illinois.

Now get the governor to sign off and watch the criminals get scared of pulling a gun on anyone walking down the street not knowing if they're carrying or not.

I can see the paid picketers now from mayors against illegal guns doing barrel rolls of disdain.

I'm crossing my fingers here hoping that the people of Chicago embrace this and can finally really legally (persay) defend themselves.

Michel Moore and Bloomberg are sitting at home crying over a bucket of Ben and Jerry's ice cream.

Homeland security statement: patriotism is now considered terrorism.
I love www.isidewith.com shared it with everyone I know. If anything they realize its not just a red and blue idiot running for reelection.

Now we can watch the

Now we can watch the difference in homicide rates before and after concealed carry. That will be a powerful study.

Alternate Universe?

Um, like, wow dude. One of the most corrupt places on the planet allows concealed weapons in restaurants and bars. But at what cost to liberty?

The Law establishes review boards, training programs, task forces, creates a School Administrator Reporting blah blah blah Law, amends the Open Meetings Act to close meetings of the Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board, creates a Human Services snitch society targeting those the State deems dangerous, funds the State Police ID program for gun owners, and much, much more. OMG! OMG! It's an anarcho-fascist wet dream come true. I can see why the new law has brought AnCapMercenary to the brink of orgasm.

As usual, ancaps reveal themselves as the big government fascists they claim to oppose. Oops! For legitimate libertarian info on the second amendment, click on the link below to "Resist Gun Control".

http://www.dailypaul.com/277342 (Rand Paul: One person can make a difference)
http://www.StandUpForYourRights.me/?p=1264 (Fast and Furious hearing)

aw...

Awwwwww, Marky Mark, <3

you mean...you mean...nothing I say matters to you? .o/

*** Still insanely restrictive, It's heavily focused on mental capacity determination and BS state-leaning determination as to whom is what and why, and does protect CCW holders from being disclosed under FOIA, in light of NY MSM a-holes endangering gunowners. All in all, sucks, compared to say AZ, but it would be the first time IL became a shall-issue CCW state.

Well, suppose seeing as how you're someone who pretends to have read the Hammurabic Code, worse lecture others about it, it's not surprising: of COURSE, you'd be so daft as to confuse sarcastic "OMG! OMG!" exclamation, as being serious.

xD

Awww, you never fail to please my funnybones; just when I think you can't get any more delusionally daft, you throw me this gold:

OMG! OMG! It's an anarcho-fascist wet dream come true. I can see why the new law has brought AnCapMercenary to the brink of orgasm.

As usual, ancaps reveal themselves as the big government fascists they claim to oppose. Oops! For legitimate libertarian info on the second amendment, click on the link below to "Resist Gun Control".

As usual, hilarity ensues whenever you qwerty: typical, utterly delusional conflation of erroneous word definitions, but what the heck, you're so invested in it right now, why not continue with your statist claptrap, eh? But really, I'm still just not that into you MH. xD

Do, get back to me, WHEN you actually finish reading the Hammurabic Code, then I'll entertain your noggin juice spills, okie doke?

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

baby steps

Can't take the bottle filled with numbing socialism all at once. Let's hope that the people get their taste of liberty and demand amendments to repeal the bs. For their sake and others.

Homeland security statement: patriotism is now considered terrorism.
I love www.isidewith.com shared it with everyone I know. If anything they realize its not just a red and blue idiot running for reelection.

Hope is an opiate...

distributed by big government anarcho-fascists masquerading as libertarians. You can save your hopium laced baby bottle for all the thumb sucking socialists who are dumb enough buy your baby step to hell theory.

http://www.dailypaul.com/277342 (Rand Paul: One person can make a difference)
http://www.StandUpForYourRights.me/?p=1264 (Fast and Furious hearing)

there is a lot of important

there is a lot of important nonsensical jargon in what you just said

lawrence

in AZ we can conceal carry almost anywhere WITHOUT a permit :)

in AZ we can conceal carry almost anywhere WITHOUT a permit for the last 2 years :)

and crime is dropping like a rock

Tools of war are not always obvious. The worst weapon is an idea planted in the mind of man. Prejudices can kill, suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has an everlasting fallout all of its own.

Yup

Bars, restaurants, everywhere. As long as the establishment doesn't have a sign saying not to, you get to tuck your equalizer under your shirt and go in. But it's still not constitutional. It's better than most places here but making a law for something which is a natural right is just wrong!

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

"mental capacity determination"

and people in government are going to determine "mental capacity"?
do you think it will be an ink blot test? like this?

nice work

By the way, Illinois' future drop in violent crime will somehow be credited to former NY mayor Guiliani, I'm sure.

well, reading this headline, Benito Ghouliani's gonna

have to wait:

Gun Violence Rocks Chicago as 8 are Shot in One Day
A 15-year-old boy was killed in Chicago as gun violence continues to take a toll on the nation’s third largest city.

By Jonathan P. Hicks
Posted: 05/31/2013 02:28 PM EDT

The level of gun violence in Chicago, which has caused shock waves nationally, is continuing with eight people having been shot in the nation’s third largest city in a 24-hour period that ended Friday morning, including one that ended with the death of a 15-year-old boy.

Chicago police said that the teenager, Patrick Sykes, was shot several times early Thursday afternoon. They said that witnesses offered conflicting versions of what occurred, with the shooters having been either on bicycles or on foot.

Two people were taken into custody for questioning, but they were released without any charges being filed, police said.

I read awhile back, either jokingly anecdotaly or FBI crime-stat derived generalized conclusion that stated that about 70% of ALL crimes committed in America happen in ONE state, by virtue of population and population density alone: California.

So if you want to get rid of majority of crime in America? Get rid of Califa! LOL!

Okay, no. But obviously it goes to point out that high concentration of violent crimes always repeatedly occur in the same isolated pockets of America, and just to prove a point: Chicago.

Hesus Cristos: The Powers That Be's eugenicist social engineering or not, it is awesomely tragic what goes on there everyday; truly, my heart goes out to those unfortunate souls who have to live in the fascist occupied territory aka Illinois, but especially, Chi-town.

while freeing up 2A is one path, ending drug war is another, along with privateer solutions to economic strife is definitely another, but truly, it's the generational dependency bred into the 'welfare' class, along with numerously incalculable socio-economic variables, that perpetuate the disastrous status quo.

I cannot imagine living in a city with such ridiculously high frequency of violence occurring in a relatively singularly concentrated isolated area, the Southside Chicago, with literally one of the most wealthiest strips of land in America just 5-10min drive from there.

I suppose that can be said of most metropolitan areas.

Regardless, something is so screwed up in this world...

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

let's talk secession

I don't think I would shed a tear for the USSCA (Union of Sorry Socialists of California) if they seceded and had their own little playground.

Let them take it and all of the sane Californians can trade places with the socialists from new york and Illinois. They can take the fed with them too in exchange for all of their gold and silver, since they don't think it is money and all.

Bruce Willis just put his house up for sale there so he seems like he wants to get the hell out of dodge. One of the few sane Hollywood elites that isn't head over heels for the "tax me I'm rich" crowd.

Homeland security statement: patriotism is now considered terrorism.
I love www.isidewith.com shared it with everyone I know. If anything they realize its not just a red and blue idiot running for reelection.

How many rounds would you need to complete that

16 hours of training? And why would the police be able to block a lawful firearm owner from getting a CCL? I mean, if they can lawfully own a firearm, why can't they carry it? Questions that make you go Hmmm...

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

I did CC training in Massachusetts

I think it was prob 12 hours. Maybe 6 2 hour classes?
Two range days and 4 classroom days?
We studied the NRA pistol safety book, took tests. Fired revolvers, semiauto pistols, rifles, shotguns.
range safety.
A lecture day on legal gun use and ownership from a deputy.
Interviewed with my local sheriff.
I think it cost about $200 then licensing took $100/2 yrs and then I joined a 24hr club $40/mo.

excuse me if anyone objects

But I would support a state law that required something like that and only that. Albeit that most gun owners are responsible but it's not like it would be something that you wouldn't be doing anyways. One time deal, and it goes on your concealed carry permit. Keeping it only at the state level keeps a bit of a stop-gap buffer between state residents, state officials, and the federal government to prevent them from from their grubby hands on records for a national database. Tack on privacy and reciprocity measures between states and I think that would keep everyone for the most part happy.

Yes it is not exactly entirely non infringing and liberty friendly but I would hope that something like that would shut up the gun grabbers. State level only though. Like drivers-education is for most states. I know it's not very libertarian thing to say but.. can't we have something to put down on the table and say "shut the heck up and listen to some logic gun grabbers. You can't keep running away from logic with your arguments forever."

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I love www.isidewith.com shared it with everyone I know. If anything they realize its not just a red and blue idiot running for reelection.

Do you remember how many

rounds you spent at the range during the training? $200 sounds like a fair price for a 12 hour course.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

indeed, I suppose to be more accurate,

they should call it "Shall Issue-ish."

lol.

yeah, it's one of the most heaviest 'mental-screening'-leaning state gun legislation I've seen/read. as if crazy politicians and various state-actors determining who are/are not 'crazy' or 'mentally competent' is reassuring.

Seeing as how history has proven that ALL state-actors are corrupt, degenerate, and their positions attract the most sociopathic among any given populace, one would absolutely be correct to assume them to be illegal and guilty until proven 100% otherwise...of something, and/or everything! LOL

Thus, if I had my druthers, ANYONE seeking a public office will have to sign a 100% real 2-way contract with stipulations and enumerated punishment for violating their pledges and Const. Oath, with their constituency. Number one condition being: ALL seeking public office MUST put 51% of their entire personal assets (trusts, hidden trust and all) in a publicly held escrow, with the condition that should they break their pledge and Constitutional Oath? They forfeit it all to their constituency.

Hey, that's the only kind of 're-distribution of wealth' I'd support! Redistributing public SERVANTS'. LOLOLOL!!!

One other stipulation in that contract, if I had my druthers? I'd mandate EVERY public office holder to clean the dirtiest public bathrooms for a full workday, at least once every month, though twice is more preferable, and work twice a month in their local soup kitchens or victim shelters, also for a full workday: just to remind them what the most unfortunate among their constituencies must face, and to biotchsmack them back to earth, off their high horses.

in my 'fair unicorn' universe, that is... lol.

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul

TwelveOhOne's picture

I support your second point, but not your first

Working alongside the underprivileged will give politicians information.

However, forcing them to put 51% of their assets in escrow seems to require a police state, so that the government would know specifically what "100% of their assets" amounted to.

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http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
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this makes me nervous...

Nervous like if Obama were impeached and everyone that had ever violated the Constitution was tried for treason nervous..

http://i.imgur.com/ftRGHbN.jpg

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

lol

!!!

Predictions in due Time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy." - Dr. Ronald Ernest Paul