12 votes

Dead Horse. Die!

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1) The article makes no claim

1) The article makes no claim or even suggest that these pages are from a single student.

2) someone took a photo that cut off the bottom of the page. Poor photography stills yes, doctoring no.

3) The article makes no claim or even suggest that these pages are from a single student.

Why are you so concerned about the handwritting. The article does not pretend that this is from a single student. The test would have been downloaded from a website and printed, very possible on different printers and even different paper. You're trying to make some "conspiracy" out of nothing. Dis ain't Obammy's birth certificate.......

The test was given at a private school to a class, ie SEVERAL, more than one, students.

This test was taken from:
http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2013/05/23/t...

Scroll down to "free science quiz download" and you can see the whole test for yourself (and notice that page 1 and 2 look different even on the original copy), maybe you'd even like to print it out and take it. Then you can analyze your own hand writting from start to finish and check to see if you're the same person or if you've committed a fraud.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

The original story isn't

The original story isn't believable, so the answer to why fake the two different pages lies somewhere in there - although I suspect someone just downloaded them from an online site and filled them in, and the rest of the story is made up and filled in in inaccurate ways. Or the original site is trying to drum up business. Without knowing more, there can be any number of stories - but the two pages themselves are faked for the reasons stated.

Ie: The 'original story' so far as to where these two pages came from.

A friend of the family supposedly photographed the first page and photo shopped it and posted it online to an atheist site, without telling the family. Question: Who has such a friend around their young children, who goes and posts something like this without telling the father to a site presumably dynamically opposed to their viewpoint?

Then the father supposedly finds out about it from reading about it on said site. The father reads an obscure site that is against his own views? This isn't very believable.

The father then, anonymously, contacts snoopes and claims he is father, and sends the second page, which snoopes then accepts, despite all the differences between the two pages, including color, composition, and handwriting. There is no indication that the whole thing isn't completely fake. The father is outraged! Outraged! that he didn't know about this quiz the *private* school (sic) gave.

And I'm outraged! Outraged! That a family friend knew more about the child's quizzes than the father did. The whole thing is faked.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

nice trolling by someone, aka

nice trolling by someone, aka fake and gay until corroborated.

Unfortunately

This is unfortunately a true story.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/sciencetest.asp

Ugh.

Eric Hoffer

Oh No it is true

unfortunatly Freedom to send your kids where you want is not true .. Ugh!!

Uhhh...

Yes you can, you can choose to send them to private schools just fine.

The example in question occurred because a mother found out they were teaching her kids this and she wasn't happy. If you want your kids to be taught crap like this, that's your right, but don't expect to not get laughed at or thrown out of discussions with logical people.

WERE YOU THERE?!

Eric Hoffer

So

You believe it is fine for the government to use force to steal my money via property taxes to support public indoctrination ... I am trying to find the sellout "Libertarians in name only" like you .. you don't believe in freedom you are a collectivist hack

Uhhh...

Man, you are really awesome at claiming other people believe things they don't. I can imagine you working in food service at my local McDonalds.

You: "Welcome to McDonalds, how can I help you?"
Me: "Hey I'd like to order..."
You: "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DON'T WANT ONIONS ON YOUR CHEESEBURGER YOU PIECE OF DIRT!"
Me: "Actually I just wanted a co-"
You: "I can't believe you would make me make a special order right now, we're slammed! You work creating hack!"
Me: "Please... god... just a coffee... all I want is coffee..."
You: "You'll never take me alive you liberal pig!!"

You seem to be having some sort of fight with some non-existent person. No I don't want you to have to pay for public schools, I think public schools are a big problem. However, I also reserve the right to call out private schools on teaching stupid things to students. I've seen PLENTY, and I mean PLENTY of terrible school curriculums at private schools.

Just because a school is private and you pay cash for it doesn't make the school any good.

And go deal with your issues somewhere. Seriously, seek some help. Just because someone calls you out on being an idiot doesn't mean they hold the exact opposite opinions on anything or that they hold some silly straw man position that you want them to hold. Even Ayn Rand would balk at how you leap to conclusions talking with people.

Eric Hoffer

WTH?

gay? a paper?
fake? were you there?
end.

Jury Nullification is a power of the last resort against tyranny.

And that is how the last

And that is how the last alleged answer on the quiz ends.

The irony.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

GoStateIndoctrination

I guess this guy wants the State NOT the parents to decide what to teach our kids .. Go Collectivist Authoritarian ASSHATS wooo hooo

I rather enjoyed this comment

I rather enjoyed this comment by a reader on the Washington Post article covering the subject:

When I was asked that question by a intellectually abused but very bright child, I replied that I was there. She was incredulous, but she had to admit that she wasn't there and could not, therefore, affirm that I wasn't either. I, on the other hand, had to affirm nothing, and my assertion, therefore, was irrefutable. She was an honest child, eager to know the truth. I urged her to tell her teacher that she had talked with someone who was there. I hope she is okay.

Cheers.

Go213mph

Now was he born an asshat or did he evolve into one ..Hmmmmm

I wish you wouldn't talk like that about one of my Friends.

It makes me feel bad. And it makes me wonder why you would do that. Are you trying to make him feel bad? Why?

Hey friend of asshat

So why does he post this, obviously to start trouble. Is he really trying to debate that he is in favor of state sponsered indoctrination ... That we should be forced to send our children to state schools, that we as parents shouldn't decide where to send our kids .. Is That what this asshat and you are trying to say .. then fuckin just say it

"So why does he post this, obviously to start trouble"

you ask.

Well, I don't know. But I do know that Jesus said this:

Mark 2:17 KJV
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

I don't want Go to trip over me. should Jesus call.

So it seems to me that it is possible to kindly discuss the topic that has started this trouble worth calling people names over while tossing f-bombs at the same time.

...

So tell me then

What topic does this asshat want to discuss .. because he says nothing just throws out BS and sees what happens so in my book this guy is a 10th degree asshat

I don't know what Go wants to discuss, but whatever it is can it

not be done with civility? Maybe things are tossed into the ring to see what rises to the top? In the book I read every person is to be treated with love and goodness, even so-called "enemies."

Matthew 5:44 KJV
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makethhis sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It seems to me that Followers of the Lord Jesus Christ have a hard time following His instructions. I know I do. But what if we were able to do so perfectly? What kind of world would we live in if just those who follow the Lord Jesus Christ could be perfect like our Father who is in Heaven? It seems to me that we are given opportunities to try. There is a scripture that says Love covers a multitude of sins. There is another scripture that says to overcome evil with good. I find that sometimes that is the exact opposite of what I want to do, or feel like doing. Especially when feelings (mine) are hurt. So why would I want to hurt the feelings of someone else? Is it not human nature? Is it not that nature that the Lord Jesus Christ gives us victory over?

...

Wow, this must've really hit a nerve

for you do keep responding the way you do.

But hey, keep on calling the OP "asshat", because doing that is somehow going to make it all better.

Much like many so-called "liberals", many "Christians" also claim to be tolerant...until someone disagrees with them. That's when the non-stop insults come in.

Zealots like you, PUG, and 1controversalchick are more of a hindrance than a help to your belief systems with the way you three act. At least bear tries to be civil with people who disagree.

Talk about "throwing out BS"!

A signature used to be here!

I don't care what u think

Is this guy go213mph tolerant? is he tolerant of me sending my children to schools i belive in .. or is go213mph an INTOLERANT Authoritarian ASSHAT who wants the COLLECTIVE to decide where i send my kid .. so hell yeah it hit a nerve ... so who is the ZEALOT .. big government authoritarian ASSHATS like you and GO213mph thats who

Another point ... disagrement is fine but for him to suggest i be forced to pay for public indoctrination and NOT be able to send my kid where i want is beyond being disagreeable .. do you understand i am forced to rent my land via property tax .. and this asshat obviously endorses it

Bloody sacrifices of human beings to appease the gods

Religion has made a virtue of cruelty. Bloody sacrifices of human beings to appease the gods fill the pages of history. Let us note that while the Old Testament prohibits the ancient Oriental sacrifice of the first-born, it does not deny its efficacy in the case of the King of Moab (II Kings 3:1) nor is there any revulsion at the readiness with which Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son Isaac.

The Inquisition is fortunately now a matter of the past. Let us not forget however, that the Church has not abandoned its right and duty to exterminate heretics; and it will doubtless perform its duty when conditions permit it. Spanish and Portuguese saints have expressed deep religious ardor in burning heretics. Ingenuity in inventing means of torture was the outcome of religious zeal on the part of the pious clergy who belonged to the Office of the Holy Inquisition. Cruel persecution and intolerance are not accidents but flow out of the very essence of religion, namely, its absolute claims. So long as each religion claims to have absolute revealed truth, all other religions are sinful errors. Even in our own day, a common religion of Christian love does not prevent war between Christian nations. Rather the churches encourage the warlike spirit and pray for victory.

Uhhh

When did he say that you shouldn't be able to send your kids whatever you want?

What he's said is that people who believe this sort of thing, or who teach it to children, are inexcusably dumb if not vindictive.

I don't see anywhere in this thread where he's saying you should be forced to send your kids to public school and have the matter decided by a collective. You're putting words in his mouth and then calling him names for the words you're claiming he's said... which he never said.

Bottom line, take your meds and calm down. People who think like you are the reason we have warning labels.

Eric Hoffer

Excuse me

So you support public indoctrination via forced taxation thats collectivist crap .. so i am forced by gunpoint to fund public BS .. you know do you understand Freedom of religion or are you just a trollstick

I tell you what tell me to be nice then insult me in the same breath .. you know blow me

So tell me what is go213mph trying to tell me with his post??? Please tell me cuz you say i should be tolerant .. look in the mirror

May I just suggest something?

Look, I was raised in a religious home and was shown creationist films, but as an adult I've chosen to think differently...

I understand why people don't like having their children taught by someone else that their point of view or world view is foolish and wrong....

But think about it, the reason we are even having arguments about this subject is for 2 silly reasons:

1)

While no one is threatening to do away with Christianity, many people believe that creationism is a foolish belief which goes against all the "facts" - and no one likes to be called STUPID...

But here's the thing, no one has to pat you on the back for thinking the way you do. It just seems like the real fight for christian conservatives is for social acceptance. Well sorry, your ideas are not popular, doesn't mean you have to stop having them, but it does mean you shouldn't place your happiness in what other people think.

2)

Christians don't like it when "authority figures" known as teachers, present ideas to their children as fact, especially when they contradict what they believe.

Well I think christians have a valid point here, but if science is taught not as a faith system or as facts, but as the latest and best conclusions from leading minds who have considered the evidence we currently have.... You know as SCIENCE, then I don't see the harm is giving anyone's kids access to these notions. You know, for educational purposes, so they know about the modern world.

Scientific opinions should not be set in stone, but highly influenced by new information, and if that is the case then it is much less offensive. The truth is NO ONE KNOWS THE EXACT TRUTH OF ANYTHING.

So if you are offended that someone challenges you on a notion or two, then you are missing the point. It would be far more disrespectful for others to give up on you and let you think anything you want unchallenged. At least people think enough of you to engage you in debate, it means they'd like to have you on their side...

So everyone play nice ok?

I think this is faked in an effort to discredit Christians

The giveaway to me is the title "4th Grade Science Quiz". I think both the students and teacher realize they are in 4th grade and wouldn't feel the need to label it as such.

That would make the original

That would make the original site responsible, and the reason for the fake story to drum up business.

I considered that possibility. But the story of where the pages came from and how they were filled out and where they were uploaded is not believable.

It could be playing two sides against the middle, fake opposition, or just drumming up business by multiple parties, but it *is* fake, and petty. Not really worth the effort to look at.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

If there's one thing that will get hits, it's a religious debate

I agree with you fully.

Were you there?

LOL

Jury Nullification is a power of the last resort against tyranny.

Its not something done in

Its not something done in public school.
http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2013/05/23/t...

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Think, know, believe....

My first instinct was also that this test couldn't be real. But I don't know, I couldn't possibly have all the facts just yet... Therefore I don't believe or think of it as absolutely fake or real.

I make this silly point because I think it is a good parallel for discussion.

You present evidence: Title- "4th Grade Sicence Quiz"

this seems to support your claim that the test is a fake, but we haven't looked at other test to know if your claim can be supported by a large enough sample of 4th grade tests...

The problem is that people use logic which supports their bias and ignore the logic used to support the opposite bias. This alone is just not going to reveal any "truth".

If you go in search of truth, you MUST begin with the idea: "I may be wrong about EVERYTHING"

How much more exciting it is to live your life this way!!!!!!