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Can you support the troops and be against the War?

Folks, I know the obvious answer to this is a resounding yes. But I wanted to get your feedback. A potential Ron Paul Vote depends upon it. See email I got when I said to an on the fencer who has a nephew in Iraq that I admire his nephew but am against the war.
Please help with your feedback.
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I do sort of have a problem with people who say they support troops, but not the
war. Sort of confusing to me. Like cheering for the Redskins but hating football?
If I was a soldier the saying of - "I support you", would mean you must support
what I am doing, how I am doing it, the reason I am doing it, and you'd want me to
meet my objectives. So I really do not understand how one can support the troops
but not the war. Both are very popular "supporting the team but not the sport".
But it is really confusing to me. Please explain.
Do you support what they are doing in Iraq and the reasons they are doing it? Many
(and I don't know about you on this so I'll leave you out), but many do not support
how they are doing it, and ceratinly do not want them to succeed at thier objectives
and downplay successes and overhype failures for political gain. While at the same
time saying "support the troops"", what kind of support is that?

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Soldiers rarely start wars. That's politicians jobs.

Soldiers know the true cost of war. I support the troops, they are being patriotic and willing to sacrifice everything to protect their country. I truly respect that. But I don't support the war. Iraq never attacked us, Congress has yet to declare a war against Iraq. We should not be taking orders from a rogue President or the United Nations. Supporting the troops and being pro-war are two completely separate things. If someone would state exactly what our goal is so we would know when "victory" was attained, I would feel a little easier in my mind. Why don't we just declare victory and come home now? We took over the country, Saddam is no more, so what else is there left to do? The Iraqi people don't want us there, the American people don't want us there, so why stay? Rhetorical question, the answer is "Black gold, Texas tea", in other words OIL. Watch a movie called "Three Days of the Condor". Old movie that explains what is happening, but the book and movie were made 30 years ago.

A Video Is Worth A Million Words

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiBI9TJ_iQs

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This may not be pretty

The whole idea behind supporting the troops is to ensure to them that there's no hatred towards them. At least, from my view. I can't say for sure that I "support" the troops because I think there can be a better word that's equally positive, yet more honest. It may sacrifice simplicity to fit on a bumper sticker, but I'm sure it exists somewhere.

I looked through a few comments and noticed an issue regarding the label "pawn". That's a word I've used to describe our troops in a nutshell for about a couple years. That word is only bothersome when you're used to glowing labels that creates pedestals as opposed to more realistic terms.

Same realism can be applied to the idea that they fight for our freedoms. They don't. Fighting for our freedoms is what WE do. They fight to defend, to protect, to preserve... or at least supposed to. Who, what and why they fight is always determined by our government who was, is and will always be our biggest threat to freedom. Currently, the enemy they're fighting has not removed one bit of freedom from us, yet the leadership they fight under has.

If they do fight for our freedoms, they're losing the fight catastrophically. But I said they don't, so this losing battle falls squarely on us. We've been failing to keep the government in check, to have them fear us instead of the other way around. If we had kept our government in check, our troops would only fight when they're supposed to. In that respect, we've been letting our troops down. They're dying for nothing noble because we allowed it to happen. Almost said dying for nothing, but that's false. Actually, dying for nothing would be better than what they ARE dying for, but I digress.

Maybe I do support the troops more than I realize. By doing my part in this fight, I'm doing what I can to ensure the troops fight the good fight. All of us here, I believe this to be so. Though I've called the troops "pawns", it's actually the highest compliment I can give. Our military cannot exist without them. Obedient and dedicated. A must for any well-oiled successful fighting machine.

backwards

"Sort of confusing to me. Like cheering for the Redskins but hating football?"

No

It's hating football but not hating the players!

"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."

Support the Troops?

The whole term 'Support the Troops' is a convenient way to demagogue the issue of the unconstitutional wars we have brokered all over the world. The question isn't really 'do you support the troops?' it's the statement 'If you speak out against what we are doing, you don't care what our troops are going through and you should feel unpatriotic about it'. The fact of the matter is if you really supported the troops then you would ask them what THEY wanted or needed. People in Washington don't give a crap what the average soldier thinks about what is going on or what he is made to do 'in the name of the republic'. You will never hear me say 'I support our troops' because, to me, even uttering that catch phrase is like buying into that whole manipulative train of thought. Our soldiers are our fellow Americans and the greatest honor we can do them is to be responsible citizens and restore our Constitution at home and bring them home. They can do their jobs a lot better if they are here protecting America and being with their families, not dying on foreign soil, in a country that couldn't harm us even if they really wanted to.
It's all rubbish!

"The casualty of partisanship is objectivity."

What is more suportive of

What is more suportive of the troops then wanting them back home where they can be with their familys and loved ones as well as being safe and sound. Now that is suport.

*sigh*

I hate the phrase, support the troops. It's so empty and meaningless, like the pledge of allegiance.

I honestly feel that many of our young men signed up for the military because they either were in a situation where they needed structure for their lives and rescued themselves from going down the wrong path, or they signed up because they felt they want to protect our country.

Now we should know that fighting a civil war in Iraq isn't fighting for our country... so the people that spout nonsense such as, "They're over there fighting for our freedom." really show that they can regurgiate a politicial agenda. They're not fighting for our freedom, they're invading a soverign nation... but at the end of they day, their structure demands that they follow orders. They are simply doing what they are told. The blame lies with the President and the Congress.

So, yes, it is possible to be proud of the intentions of our military. And it's possible to despise what they were ordered to do. They're not mutually exclusive.

your right

As an ex U.S. Marine who served during the 91 gulf war i can tell you that your 100% correct about why people join the military. Its basically the 2 reasons you mentioned.

#1 to build discipline in their lives and turn them into men so they can have a better future later in life (thats why i joined so i would grow up) and to basically escape the bad economics of their upbringing.

#2 to fight for our country although many don't have a clue what that really means until they are in that situation and then most regret their ill informed and ignorant decision.

I can also tell you that most who join the military are from middle to lower middle class families. Some from very very lower class families who just had no hope or prospects in life for anything better.

One more thing

If you really support the troops you would be in favor of taking better care of our veterans. The care we provide to those that sacrificed their life, limbs, and sanity for us is disgusting.

I wish I would hear more from RP about refocusing some of the defense budget on taking care of our own. I know he supports it, but people need to hear it.

I feel this is an easy answer.

Yes because Dr. Paul gets more donations from The Military than any other candidate. So he is obviously who the troops want in office. Did I mention he is against the war. Oh yeah don't forget all other illegal wars that the military men and women are against as well. Just a little sarcasm in there. But seriously there is your answer.

Let's keep the freedom train rolling.

Let's keep the freedom train rolling.

of course its not their fault we have a jackass neocon

in the whitehouse. i didnt sign up for that when i voted for bush the first time. you support them because they are pawns in this chess game for oil.

I support the troops now as

I support the troops now as I did years ago when I voted for Bush.
I learned real quick I was a fool to support this so called War. if it was really a war we would have cleared out the area but it's just like many have said here, an action or a test to see how easily they can pull the wool over our eyes while securing contracts for security companies over here, and excuse to make the Dept. of Homeland security and for the central bank to fund the lush Cheney resorts over there.

Then I was fooled that these terrorists wanted us dead and now that that's just a NWO plan and they openly admit it, at least I now see clearly that we need to support the troops because their training and endurance will be needed here when Americans are moved into internment camps once all projects are set in place.
The 17 year olds going over there have no idea what's going on and their parents are too busy with the football game to be involved in this survival game... If they dont have their families they will need our support.
Anybody follow me???

I support Police but I don't support Crime

Soldiers do their jobs and have no say as to the wars they fight. I support soldiers for the role they play but I do not support the war they face.

Police fight crimes.
Soldiers fight wars.
But that doesn't mean you have to support crime or war in order to support police or soldiers.

One more?

I support Firefighters, even when they are called out on false alarms.

"I don't endorse anything they say"
~Ron Paul On the 911 Truth movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGyhlNY0y1k

Thank You

For all of the great feedback!

Supporting troops?

I am really tired of all this support the troops crap! I am an ex U.S. Marine who served during the 91 gulf war so i feel i have a right to say this. What does it really mean to support the troops? Think about it. Were basically sending them to their DEATH for nothing, but to make ourselves feel better we say things like "we support the troops"!! What a bunch of crap! If people really cared about those troops they would be getting them the hell out of there. Also those troops are human beings with free wills and minds of their own and many of them are waking up and realizing that this war is for nothing! Many of them are speaking out against it and some even refuse to go. When you join the U.S. military you take an oath to defend our country from all enemies both foreign and domestic. So which enemy are they fighting? The enemy that we just invaded and bombed the crap out of and massacred for no reason at all? And exactly why are they the enemy? Because our government lied to us and said they were our enemy? Anybody? Only Ron Paul supporters seem to have a clue about any of this and I am truly honored to be a part of this movement. Wake up America!

Thank You Sir!!

I would follow you, or any other military leader to the death, to fight for our Nation and it's citizens. What possible good can come from the present mess in Iraq? And I never thought it would degrade to this level, but Afghanistan is being allowed to slide into a no-win situation as well. We had that conflict wrapped up two years ago(except for getting Ossama B.)
Our guys are canon fodder for corporate warmongers. KBR and Haliburton have raped us so bad, we should be walking sideways.
Out of all the candidates, Ron Paul is by far the only one really concerned about the troops. And yet the Republican elite cast
aspertions on, and jeer his very exsistance.
Who then is the real patriot?

Anyone who has ever spent 3

Anyone who has ever spent 3 seconds in combat knows that the reason you fight, is for your buddies and not so much for the country. You become an Isolationist real quick too. The are over there fighting for each other, not Bush's stupid ass foreign policies. So next time someone talks about supporting the war, tell them to support it directly and go fight or shut the freak up. Still amazed that all the anti-isolationist speeches in MSM are given by non-Vets. I guess I'd be a supporter of this war if I had not seen it first hand and knew damn well I wouldn't ever have to..

Semper Fi , RON PAUL (The New Chesty Puller)

Former Army 77W

Sure you can support the troops by being appreciative of what they do and by making sure their families get good education and they have good houses. I've lonf since supported our troops because I think they are heavily underpaid. It makes not sense that these private contracts go over there and make 40K a month meanwhile most soldiers make crap..

Having said that I DO NOT think that you have to blindly support War, Warfare, and the killing of other people. We live in an era where people somehow take offense to the military if you speak out against the war. The policies put into place by politicians and ruling governments are not reflected by the individuals that make up the military.

The military is as diverse as you or I, when I was in the Army I met some people who were cool as hell and I will always respect, and at the same token I've met some real assholes who were really bad selfish people. I think respect is something that goes both ways, I do not think we should blindly put someone up on a pedistal and call them a "Hero" just because they wear a uniform.
Maybe this goes back to the independant in me, but I DO NOT ever just generalize people good or bad just because of their job, religion, or rthe uniform they wear.

The one thing that pisses me off more than anything is when I talk about the war and my views I always have some person say "my daddy was in the marines" or something to that nature as if I am directly attacking their heritage or family. I could give a shit really, My grandfather was in both the Army and the Navy, my father was a Marine, my sister was in the Army, my other sister is in the Coast Guard, and I was in the Army, anyone can kiss my ass if I am not able to speak out against this war or any other war...

Support our Troops has become a NeoCon statment that translates to "Shut up and don't ask questions, anyone who does is anti-american.."...

I wish I could say my views have changed and in a way since 9/11 and Iraq they have, but the views I expressed above are pretty much in line with what I thought and felt when I first went into the service and I still feel that way tofday. I am just more anti-war than ever due to this Neo Con movement of invading other countries...

Regards,
David F
www.myspace.com/asymptote

Regards,
David F
www.myspace.com/asymptote

Former Marine

As a former Marine, I took an oath to defend my country from all enemies, foreign and domestic. The war in Iraq is against neither. This was a calculated, strategic move to make money for company's on the tail of the patriotism displayed after 9/11. That day we saw that we weren't invulnerable. We could be hit. And all it took was a few colorful words and a proclamation that Saddam Hussein could make the next hit be even worse.... we fell for it. We were united as a country in a way not seen since Pearl Harbor. I'm not going to get into the conspiracy theories of whether or not we caused the WTCs to collapse. My personal belief is we KNEW it was going to happen. The same allegations were made about Pearl Harbor. Countries like going to war because they make money. Plain and simple. During WWI, England made a deal with Germany (their enemy) to trade rubber for sniper scopes so that they could continue fighting. But, back to my point. Even though I am no longer active, I will fight and give my life, if need be, to protect my country and the citizens of it. But Dr. Paul hit the nail on the head when he said that the reason we have been bombing them for 10 years (11 now, started in '97 under Clinton) is because we knew they couldn't retaliate. So we were under no threat from them. Period. I support my brothers in uniform to my dying breath. I support them so much, that there had better be a damn good reason should any of their lives be put in danger. I support them enough to believe (as does Dr. Paul) that they need to have better pay and the benefits Clinton took from them to save money restored. I think, if you support the troops, you HAVE to be opposed to this war.

Great answer!

You have summed it all up very nicely. Not only do the military industrial complex companies (Halliburton, Carlyle Group, Lockheed, GE, Raytheon,...) make obscene amounts of money on war, the Central Bankers do so as well. They have manipulated most (all?) of the wars throughout recent history, then they lend money to both sides and charge them interest (of course.) War is a way for THEM (the elite) to funnel taxpayer money right into their own coffers. If the American people would only realize this, they would support Ron Paul and there would be no more wars unless we were directly attacked. As two time medal of honor winner U.S. Marine Major General Smedley Darlington Butler wrote, War is a Racket.

In this case, if THEY really thought certain people "attacked" us on 9/11, they should have gone out and hunted them down with Special Forces or CIA hit men. To destroy entire countries and cultures and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people who did nothing to us is a war crime and a crime against humanity and should be treated as such.

BTW, the Bushes and bin Laden's have been business partners over the years, in the Carlyle Group and other ventures. Coincidence? I think not.

Depends

As a 22-year veteran of the Air Force, I was one of the "troops" until the summer of 2006. In my opinion, the question is fundamentally flawed because you don't explain what it means to "support the troops."

Do I support the troops?

If you are really asking whether I want every one of them to return safely and soon, then yes, I do.

If you are really asking whether I support the mission they are performing, then no, I do not.

I have a little more on this topic at http://www.russianracehorse.com/troops.htm.

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Don't blame me! I voted for Ron Paul!

I was a soldier

I am a vet with several combat tours. I would like to say to all of you that the question of supporting the troops and not supporting the war are apple and oranges. Two seperate questions, the first are you in support of the war? The second are you in support of the troops? Two totally different meanings and they deserve different answers.

I am in support of the troops, either in combat or not, they do a bang up job, and deserve our admiration.

The war however is illegal, and has no purpose, If we had gone after the terrorists and got them I would support the combat but what we have done is far from the objective. We went to combat without authorization, this action is not even a war. A war must be declared by congress, and this was not, the president went alone on this and did so even against the U.N. thus being illegal.

As a soldier I followed the orders of those appointed above me, and swore an oath to defend the constitution from enemies both foriegn and domestic. Which enemy are we fighting? The people of Iraq never attacked us, and neither did the people of Afghanistan.

We should have gone after the real enemy, and we should have attack the real enemy with all our might. We should not have displaced governments nor should we have forced democracy at gun point.

The actions of congress has further damaged us as a nation, they should have directed the president to come home by unfunding this action. They should have prevented the invasion of our constitution, we should replace everyone of them and start over.

michael

The actions of congress has

The actions of congress has further damaged us as a nation, they should have directed the president to come home by unfunding this action.

they tried this with Ronald Regan and then we got Iran/Contra => i.e. the CIA sold cocaine to our kids to fund Regan's war.

by now, the military probably has a large stash of money hidden someplace to keep the war going for several years after it's done w/o having an official budget, my hunch.

Good statement and so TRUE.

Good statement and so TRUE.

The troops didn't decide to

The troops didn't decide to go to Iraq on their own, policies in Washington sent them there. It's the evil spin that puts them in the middle. Being against the war is being against the policy. Supporting the troops means keeping them alive, and making Americans more safe, by being non-interventionists.

It is a paradox for small government conservatives to tout small government at home, and start wars abroad.

why not supporting them, by

why not supporting them, by not having them killed ???

I never see the people supporting the war, actually fighting it!!!!!!!!!!!
they seem to all stay home.......

Why dont we ask the troops?

Didnt they give the most money to Ron Paul than everyone else combined. Please tell him this and let us know what he says

I support them

I support the troops by not blaming them. I can't even imagine some of the "orders" they must deal with, and the suffering most will endure because of it.

I support them completely.
And I completely support bringing them home.

Gwen Kraft
"Personal Liberty & Personal Responsibility" -- Dr. Ron Paul

Gwen Kraft

"Personal Liberty & Personal Responsibility" -- Dr. Ron Paul

"A hero is someone who understands the responsibility that comes with his freedom." -- Bob Dylan

I don't see how anyone can

I don't see how anyone can "support the troops'" and be FOR the war.