23 votes

What if Snowden's leak is a trick to make the data legal, and then use it against us?

Snowden in an interview with Greenwald:

...this is something that's not our place to decide, the public needs to decide whether these programs and policies are right or wrong.

...eventually you realize that these things need to be determined by the public and not by somebody who was simply hired by the government.

From Economic Policy Journal:

Are the Data Collection Leaks Just a Set Up by the Government? ... I suspect what may be going on is that the USG may be wanting to use in court cases some of the data they are collecting. BUT in order to do this, they have to acknowledge they have the data in the first place, which may be what the leak is all about.

Now that the public is aware this data is collected, Congress will hold hearings, not resulting in the end of the practice, but to ultimately set "guidelines" on when it can be used.

[N]ow that this data collection is being made public, to me the real danger is that the government is now going to be able to openly use it against its subjects--which may have been the purpose of the leaks in the first place.



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This is Bullsh*t


You're an idiot.

Our entire Government hated the leaks, tried lying about it (to deny the content), then canceled Snowden's passport and aggressively pressured other governments to kill him or turn him over to the U.S. be jailed/tortured. And they would have killed him had he ever tried to get on a damn plane.

They all regard him as a traitor, and a Terrorist. They even arrested Glen Greenwald's partner and classified him too as a "terrorist", simply for being in possession of some Snowden materials.

Snowden would be dead already (killed by our government/CIA) had it not been for the Russian government intervening on his behalf, and providing him with an safe asylum option.

Obama had a hissy fit after Russia decided to protect him, and like a spoiled child, refused to even meet with Vladimir Putin or acknowledge him at the G20 summit.

It's all a game to them.

Don't forget this.

Maybe you grossly over-estimate their capabilities

Like the 'public service' everywhere, the bureaucrats are running amoke with their interpretation of the power they have been given to administer; the rank and file are rubber stamping in their own disinterested, apathetic and inept manner; and those at the top have no clue what's going on around them, too busy enjoying the privilege and power of their appointments to be fussed with the attached responsibility of office.

"Hell is empty, and all the devils are here" (Shakespeare)
RP 2012~ Intellectual Revolution.

Edward Snowden is, no doubt -

Ed Snowden is, without a doubt, authentic. I would not argue whether or not he was, in some form or other, an "asset" - or whether he was being controlled - but his actions are authentic. However, there is also no doubt that he was allowed to leave with the information he did. The fact that all of this highly secretive information not only passed through the hands of someone of questionable state loyalty but was allowed to become exposed is far beyond a blunder.

I can remember joking with a friend of mine over the phone back in 2004 - "'Assassinate president' . . . alright, say something else for the benefit of the NSA guy listening to our conversation now . . ." So, now the world knows it? What's going to happen about it? What are Germany or Chile going to do about this? Mexico? Brazil? I'm laughing!

You may be right in questioning things, though I do not think this is a specific question of using data mined by the NSA in court. It's psychological control - obviously, since it has not stopped, since it shows no signs of stopping, since it seems there is nothing we can do about it, and since US officials aren't even showing any guilt or remorse about it . . . this will continue regardless of whatever new puppet gets the White House in 2016.

As Yuri Bezmenov would say...

Disclosure and Normalization

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Hits the nail on the head

With this post!

Psychological conditioning for total surveillance police state.

____

"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon

.

They've already been caught handing information purloined in this fashion to law enforcement. They'll make up a lie about how they got it and then it's on you to prove they're lying and how they got it.. which is impossible.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intel...

There's nothing to codify or normalize. Their systems are already integrated. They are sharing anything they want and lying the whole time.

No reason to believe Snowden is anything other than what he seems at the moment.

It seems to me that the

It seems to me that the attempt to codify these powers by Feinstein and others is damage control. It's the best of the worst for them in that while it can achieve temporary statutory legitimacy, codification is a huge chink in their armor against legitimate Supreme Court challenges over these overreaching, secret powers.

egapele's picture

This is the stuff that gives conspiracy theorists

a bad name.

I'm with what bigmikedude & ecorob said.

Quite Possible

The right hand holds up Snowden for all to see and vilify while the left hand normalizes the existence snd use of our own stolen data against us. From s govt perspective it makes perfect sense.

=======
RON PAUL 2012

Exactly... I saw this and argued it from the get-go...

Not saying Snowden is bad, certainly not his actions...

But in the big picture this is NORMALIZATION & DISCLOSURE.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

I'll give you credit for breaking the truth

I think you're right on.

Calling Israel on line #1

Could The Grangspam get an upvote on a comment anywhere please?

I call it like I see it

never let someone who stoops to name calling stop me, because in the long run, I win.. I always win and I'm going to win and you may or may not remember me, but one day you're gonna say.. "Wow that person I called names on DP) was right". Been happening my entire life..

First the ignor me
then they laugh at me
then they call me names and try to hurt me
then I win, just for callin it like I see it, and no, I don't see like you or anyone else, and I'm happy for that, though I do try to see things your/their way, just all the name calling gets in the way, makes you look like you have nothing intelligent to say.

That might make sense

If our government gave even one iota of an inkling of a fraction of a shit about the rule of law.

What if

Ed's disclosures are 100% for the purposes he stated from the start. Notice how there is no question mark.

Anything is possible

and I think your question is valid, considering how so many events in the past have lead a down a path different than expected.

Keep an open mind so your eyes see and your ears hear, eventually a picture develops and it may be different than what we expected.

"We can see with our eyes, hear with our ears and feel with our touch, but we understand with our hearts."

Stop attacking allies.

Go after the powers that be.

Critical thinking dictates that what is easy to see in media

even alternative media is suspect.

Money/power is what makes speech heard, and distributes information. Snowden and Manning both have links to Equador that are not well understood.

Do you know how many nazis ended up in south America? Does the name prescott bush mean anything?

This is very healthy speculation.

Can we stop doing all the things we are doing that we do not want to do while still doing what we need to do?

Brave and prescient of epj to raise this question.

I would counter that lawful does not mean legal. Might does not make right...

Defeat the panda-industrial complex

I am dusk icon. anagram me.

Goofy Specualtion Based on Nothing

1. Snowden hasn't leaked anything but proof of the illegal policies, the abuses, and the Constitutional limits being broken. I may be mistaken, but as far as I know, the contents of conversations have not been leaked, only the proof that they have been overheard, and with whom. He turned all that stuff over, months ago, and has nothing left in his possession--I suspect if there were juicy conversations with public figures, this would have been hinted at by now. As it is, just the fact that they were tapped is more than sufficient news.

2. Illegally obtained evidence is not useable in court. Anyone convicted over the last couple of years should really be having their case re-opened to look for illegally obtained evidence. As for leaking transcripts of conversations, imagine what happens when a Madam's little black book is up for grabs--the powers-that-be usually close ranks to stand up for the privacy and due process rights of everyone. Nobody wants to open that can of worms.

There are clearly many patriots in the NSA and CIA who take their oaths seriously enough to be glad the policy abuses have come to light (several other whistle-blowers are in trouble with the Establishment, already). I'm sure they're feeding more data to their journalist contacts, just as eager as we are to purge the bad apples.

No way does anything Snowden leaked aid those in this shadow government. They want the story to go away, and using the data won't help that happen.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

Problem is that the defendant does not know how the government

obtained the evidence. Remember the government is saying that what the nsa does is legal. There have always been ways for the police to hide how they obtained evidence. There is a post today about Solicitor General Verrilli and the first defendant to receive notice of warrantless wiretapping. His case may actually go to the supreme court if the evidence is not thrown out.

bigmikedude's picture

But what if this is a trick to make Snowden's leak look

like a trick to trick people into making the data legal, but is actually only a trick to trick people into not trusting the treat Snowden gave us?

Trick or Treat? my friends, that is the question in the day at hand.

But I don't think anyone has denied the validity of his leaks...

The issue is the big picture result... Disclosure, Normalization...

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Your wordplay might be confusing to those with less than 100 IQ

But I thank you for your great comment. You're correct. :)

Cyril's picture

Indeed. I would bet on a trick that tries to debase the treat,

Indeed. I would bet on a trick that tries to debase the treat, for that matter.

Either that, or the effect of some over-speculative bias, candid or not. (But that's just IMO.)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

When the People wake up

and read and defend the Constitution which is the law of the land, there will be absolutely no need for clarification or addition to the law.

Any law or statute repugnant to the Constitution is null and void. It is up to us to ENFORCE that.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

ecorob's picture

BS!

The revelations released today, that the NSA (nut sucking assholes) of OURS, spied on Merkel of Germany and 60 million Spanish communications, is not a trick.

It makes the ENTIRE US government AND past government look like Nazi stazi.

If it were a trick it has backfired horribly and the spying apparatus embedded in American government is EXPOSED for what it is...Naziism 2.0.

PREPARE!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Moreover..

What's to keep government from completely fabricating data?

Couldn't they just lie about having collected data on you "proving" you to be guilty of a crime?