7 votes

Why would a Rand 2016 end up any different than a Ron 2008 / 2012? MSM is still in full control.

Not to sound like a downer, but it's time to put on our big boy pants and look around. People aren't "waking up" at nearly the rate we would like to believe. Do you still plan on pouring your money into the msm's pockets via campaign contributions only for them to crown their agent in the end, or is there a new strategy in the works?

Personally, unlike last time, I will not be donating a dime next time around. The Internet has obsoleted msm election "reporting". The future dictates that they are not to be "worked with" or persuaded but simply to be ignored by voters AND CANDIDATES. Sadly, even most DP'ers still don't seem to recognize this paradigm shift and are more than willing to play the old game, hoping that maybe simple persistence is the magic key.

Working in any direction that doesn't preclude total msm abstinance is a losing, expensive, pointless battle. Once we can swallow that pill, maybe that can free our minds to come up with some real, clever solutions.

EDIT: A lot of wishful thinking in this thread. Scary stuff. It's just simple math, people. If your voting majority is drunk on msm, then msm's agent wins. Period. The msm can push whomever they want on their airwaves. And it ain't gonna be Larry Liberty and Carrie Constitution. So, it's everyone's burden to get the addicted off their drug. Everything else is a big waste of your precious time.

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Kissinger VOWS To China Jeb Bush Will Be Next President

It is no longer there, but I know for a fact that AJ/PP had this article because somebody gave me a printout with the address on the bottom.

This, however, still exists:


"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul


Bush vs


Rand Has a Chance

only because 1) he never ran for POTUS from the Libertarian Party 2) he's young and 3) AFAIK he never came out openly for the legalization of pot.

It's therefore fairly tough for the MSM to call him 'Crazy Old Uncle Rand'.

Rand has a chance because...

Rand has a chance because... the Republican Party is well aware they cannot win without us. They were willing to lose once because Obama = Bush. But, not so sure about that again. And, with races for the Senate and some Governor positions and House positions, we do win. So we are not 100% controlled. It will be tough, but Rand has a chance. He was on the cover of Time. 13 hour filibuster. They won't be able to smear him, he is a sly fox, and the Republicans know they threw the election by screwing the Ron Paul supporters. They could have won and Romney could be in. Rand at least will negotiate with them, Ron would not. We may have more control than you think as long as there are Republicans left who want to actually win.


But the GOP doesn't get to decide who gets on tv until the Israeli media makes it apparent who THEY ARE WILLING to put on tv and who they are willing to legitimize. That's the pickle.

as long as the GOP gets their wars

they're happy, and since obama/clinton are as neocon as them it's not a problem.

The First Step

Is to realize that they don't have control. What they have is a twisted and manipulated perception created by them and manifested in millions of Americans. Our mission must be to empower those Americans with individual control and individual perception.


How do we put your last statement into a tangible action?


Expose the false perception

Expose the media. Show them the highly sophisticated PRAVDA that we are force fed every day.



So how do we expose them to at least enough voters that it will make a difference. And what exactly is the evidence? What format?

I wouldn't say the not so

I wouldn't say the not so mainstream media is in, "full," control for they have a serious credibility problem and it's reflected in their ratings.

They like to act as if they're in control, but they're not anymore.

WE are in control. WE are the ones all along the watchtower, calling BS when we see it.

Why do you think they're kissing Rand's ass so much?

Because he's very popular, even more popular than his dad.

Rand Paul is young, attractive, very articulate, and has a soft, but commanding presence about him that the old media can't resist.

He can thank his dad for his smarts and good looks after he becomes America's next president.

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

"We are in control"

If that is true, then why is Obama president? Why is our money being used to murder innocent people on the other side of the world? Why have the 911 victims received no justice?

The first step is to admit. We are not in control.

They are disarming you by making you think they will make Rand appear legitimate only to betray you when the time comes. Glenn Beck talked a pretty tough talk about the "cancer" that is the federal reserve only to make sure their power stayed fully in tact in the end by disparaging RP. Don't let them fool you.


Unlike Ron Paul, the hope would be that he would not just turtle-up and quit like Ron, but instead -- actually stay and really fight Mitt Romney......er...but then again, on second thought Rand endorsed Romney over his own father!

So it does not look good here.


Don't worry about your down voters. I'm learning a disturbing number of DP'ers just want to be coddled.

Kathleen Gee's picture

Are you an Eeyore or a Concern Troll?

Eeyores are sincere supporters of pro-liberty candidates and causes who inadvertently demoralize potential pro-liberty voters by repeating the lies of the LSM, complaining that "we can't win because _________ so why don't we give up now," and soaking other pro-liberty folks with the black pessimistic rainclouds of doom that they carry with them wherever they go.

Eeyores are dangerous because they're insanely effective at getting people to do nothing and give up. They also waste the time of non-Eeyores, who have to waste effort countering the negativity within our ranks instead of reaching out to build the kind of coalition that it's going to take to drag this country back from the edge of the Obyss.

On the other hand, Concern Trolls are paid operatives who establish fake social media accounts for the sole purpose of demoralizing their opponents. (Read more: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-concern-trolling.htm).

The end result of both Eeyore activity and Concern Trolling is the same: our enemies win. Eeyores destroy our movement for free from the inside, whereas Concern Trolls get paid to do it.

So, OP, which are you...a Concern Troll or an Eeyore?

"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid." - Ronald Reagan

Public Relations Consulting


Soooo persistence it is then. Well at least that gets you out of having to think out of the box.

In your long winded, colorful response you forgot to address one tiny little thing - truth. I don't want you or anyone else to waste their time on a trick puzzle that can't be solved.

So, what's your answer to the question, Oh Verbose One?

Kathleen Gee's picture

Soooo, Concern Troll, then.

The personal insults make it kind of obvious.

"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid." - Ronald Reagan

Public Relations Consulting

Let's try to not focus on me. I'm boring. Questions...

Some wisenheimer once said, "If you want different, do different." So what are we going to DO different that justifies expecting different results in 2016? Why on earth would our Israeli media ever take a chance on RP's son when there are countless candidates who are more than willing to sell America down the river for a few shillings?

The controllers of electronic "voting" are in control.


What would the Founders do?

In 2012, I was policing 6

In 2012, I was policing 6 tables around me at the caucus trying to stop the neocons from cheating and writing in their Romney buddies instead of having delegate elections. I failed in most cases. One asshole actually took his delegation into a back room and threw off all the Paul delegates and wrote in his buddies. This same asshole ran for chairman of our party. We destroyed him and put our own guys into power.

In 2016, the Neocons will be surrounded in Ron Paul repubs watching them like hawks. We control the party here with 70% of the PCOs and 2 out of 3 of the board (we left them 1 to be nice). We are doing this across huge swarths of America now. THIS is what is changed. Elections are won and lost right there by the useful idiots who believe the MSM lies and write in Romney delegates because "he's the only one who can win and save America from Obombya". Those days are over.

Not only that. Ron Paul killed Romney's election. He would have won if not for the 600,000 registered republicans who voted Johnson, wrote in Paul, or stayed home in the swing states.

The establishment repubes KNOW they will never win another election unless they put up a candidate that WE will vote for. There are some idiot holdouts here and there, but for the most part, WE have become the party at the precinct level. Rand will destroy whatever idiot they put up against him.

The reason

is momentum.

You're right the MSM is a powerful tool and people are not waking up as fast as we'd like, but you forget the very powerful tools we have too.

One is the Internet. That allowed us to find each other, actually Ron Paul to find us. He said he "didn't know we were out there." But the Internet levels the playing filed for spreading information, allowing anyone to get info right into people's homes. Remember, Ron Paul first ran for president in 1988 (before any Internet) and I sure hadn't heard of him until the 07/08 run.

The next thing we have going is truth and answers. We know we have the right position and why things are so messed up, and how to fix things. Nobody else can say that, and the so called economic "experts" that have been have clearly been wrong.

When you put these together you understand why the liberty movement has been growing and gaining momentum. We couldn't gain enough in time to get Dr. Paul the presidency in 2012, but we came VERY close. Why? It's because even though we don't represent the majority of the country our people ARE the most passionate. How passionate were people in voting for either Obama or Romney in 2012? That election actually had extremely low voter turn out as nobody seemed particularly enthusiastic about either choice.

On the other hand our people worked since the last election (and some before then) on getting Dr. Paul elected, even taking time to learn and become delegates.

So you put all that together and I say we have a tremendous head start and advantage on 2016, because we only get bigger and stronger over time. Anyone that's been around since 07/08 can clearly see the difference. Rand Paul is not Ron Paul, but he's a lot closer to Ron than Obama, Romney, or any other of the usual puppets we could expect. I'd say 2016 looks pretty great for Rand Paul actually, because he can harness the momentum Ron Paul successfully started.

You've Got it Wrong

The media may have played a factor in 2008, but not so in 2012. We had the votes and Ron won the Republican nomination. The Republican Party cheated him. That's where we need to make more progress! We have to ensure open vote counting and we have to undo the rule changes made in Tampa in 2011 that would allow the party to pick the nominee. That's where the focus should be. We can get around the MSM, whose credibility has been seriously waning for some time now.

okay but...

I don't disagree that Ron Paul had more "real" supporters, but if you think those out numbered the tv sheep, then you're not really being honest with yourself.

We could completely control both the Democratic and Republican parties, but in the end, how would that even put a dent in the msm's control over the majority of voters? And voting is about quantity, not quality.

They can put on their airwaves whomever they please. And it ain't going to be Larry Liberty and Carrie Constitution. What will the plan be then?

I agree

we definitely have to work to undo those rule changes enacted clearly to give only the establishment power.


is where your focus should be.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

It's still a primitive money contest.

Local media and the party ptb decide who voters get to choose from. Although, anyone can just simply go online, see who's running and what they stand for. No money needed. No party endorsement necessary. That's the paradigm shift I'm talking about. We don't get our milk delivered to our doorstep anymore. Why do we need this middleman to tell us who is running and what their positions are and what the score is? Why do candidates need to spend one cent on signs, bumper stickers, travel. All of the necessary info can be made available for free online. We just have to shift our brains to proactively GO GET IT like we now GO GET the milk. (And for any candidate that did opt to take the traditional, corporate media route, it would just be understood that they're committing political suicide and they'd be eliminated from consideration.)

This solution kills many birds, including the biggest birds - msm mediocracy and money in politics.