37 votes

A plea to everyone to allow others now waking up to give them a chance and judge them based on their future actions, not past!

I am writing this to try and get everyone to understand that at one point most of us were not awake and needed to be woken up!

Many of us at one point believed the propaganda that we were being fed, we believed that the government would never do this to us, didn't many of you at one point?

I know I was one of those people and now it seems people are starting to wake up but aren't still totally awake but are aware their is a complete un trust in government, they lied to us!

We need to not be so quick to continue to criticize people on their past actions but judge them on their future actions, I am asking for trust but verify, not blind trust. If we are to gain traction we must grow our numbers don't we? If we are going to isolate anyone that did the wrong thing in the past doesn't this go against the grain of freedom, even if their freedom doesn't agree with our freedom? Remember at one point many believed that slavery was ok and others didn't.

All I am asking is that we be more open minded and allow others in that made mistakes or didn't agree with us in the past, people can change, I am proof of that!

Let's not be so quick to judge because of the past, let's judge on their future actions, PLEASE!

If you disagree, please tell me why, I want to understand the disagreement!

Thank you!



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You must also remember

Many people will not wish to wake up.

Watch for raised aggression when you try to explain the truth, if you see tension, just stop arguing, they won't learn in a heated state.

The best way to deal with this issue, is to make it mainstream. Throw events, messages of liberty, or law, into a conversation. In time they will shift to your way of thinking, simply because they hear it constantly.

When someone does reach the "I'm awake" point, don't forget they can choose the red or blue pill, many will retreat to what makes them comfortable, not everyone will choose to wake up, even when they know the truth.

Good Point...

I just personally hope that some of my acquaintances will ACTUALLY AWAKEN!

Most of the people I know are "still stuck in the matrix."

Perfectly reasonable argument

How is it that a NEOCON who is coming around to our point of view is any worse than a DPer who mindlessly embraces a Jessie Ventura or a Kucinich, who might be on the right side of Civil liberties arguments, but who are clearly statists content with seizing private property as it suits them.

I can forgive a guy who supported Iraq just as easily as I can forgive one who supports Obamacare and a trillion dollar deficits. At least some of GOP establishment seems to be having legitimate second thoughts.

Of course, time will tell.

Yes I am Glenn Beck! Really?

Yes I am Glenn Beck! Really?

I must have missed the Beck memo, did somewhere he plea to be forgiven? wow, unbelievable!

How did this turn into a Beck discussion? Where did I ever mention Beck in my post? That is another big problem with many people, they assume to know what they are talking about but don't have the first clue. The purpose was to make everyone look in the mirror and realize they were once a sleep too and to not be so judgemental of others just waking up.

Geeze, sometimes I wonder why I even bother trying to reason with some of you.

Who are you talking about?

Are you talking about posters here on DP? If that is the case, I believe that the majority of the posts are judged on the merits of the individual posts, rather than on the person posting. Thus, most DP posts are judged based on the present actions of the poster. In this case, I agree with you, even though I do not think it is an issue.

However, if you are talking about public figures, like Glenn Beck, I disagree. Public figures need to be held accountable for promoting tyranny. There is room for forgiveness if someone is moving in the right direction, but it should not come easy. Redemption must be earned. One good deed does not wipe out ten bad deeds. It should be the other way around.

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

No thank you

If someone has done bad in the past - it is up to them - not me - to repair their damaged credibility. Bad actions have a price.

There are plenty of people who have thought wrong - and not acted wrong - and these people I would worry about. This sounds like a veiled pitch to forgive or trust people like Beck.

I do not expect most people to wake up. I don't expect a criminal political establishment to bring material change. I expect the system to stay the course until it collapses. So I spend my time identifying people who are also smart enough and accountable enough to see, understand and prepare.

That means you, the OP , can spend your time trusting the people you describe and spend your time with them. Let me know how it goes. I wish you the best of luck and hope that your pleasantly surprised at the outcomes.

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

Do unto others

as you would have had others do unto you.

This one has been nagging at me, I suspect we are duped.

We should judge people based on their future actions?

I can't believe we fell for this.

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

Trust is something that must be built

Rather than outright trusting people that have made a habit of doing bad, one should wait until those folks have established a history of doing good.

The victims of manipulation,

The victims of manipulation, the people, ok

Those that knew, or the figure heads that didnt, but used their position to set back liberty, i would not trust, it is on THEM, to prove me wrong, even in the face of ridicule.....and only if they are genuine.....hence the trust issue

I would love to see someone whose been riduled prove us wrong, and be humbled enough, NOT, to say...."see, i told you so".......its not about being able to say "i told you so", if you were genuine, YOU'D KNOW THAT.....although, if they earned my trust, i would not be opposed to a goodnatured joke on it :)

Waking Up

Waking up is an epiphany. It is like walking out of Plato's Cave, but that is just the beginning of the odyssey toward understanding. We are all learning more and we are still correcting our thinking. Would any of us want to be judged on the basis of what we said or believed even a relatively short while ago? I wouldn't. We do, though, have to be careful. Regarding Glenn Beck, if he were to apologize for ambushing Debra Medina on his show, for opposing Ron Paul, and for pursuing a relentless vendetta against Ales Jones, then he'd be more credible. He may also be partially responsible for derailing the Tea Party. Twain's words should be considered, especially now,: " In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

Edgar Morgan

Yesterday

A friend text me with a photo of a couple talking dirty and Obama listening into the Convo. She claimed ignorance about politics but knew she was pissed off and wanted to express it. I asked her what pissed her off the most and she was talking about how at her job she listens to stories from women basically getting paid to have kids. I asked what she would do about it, her answer scared her....she wanted to cut government out of the picture so people wouldn't have those kinds of incentives to abuse the system. Thanks to MANY fellow DP's for allowing me to calmly listen and let someone else show me they are truly interested in politics. I waited till she was finished and sent her a link to this article.

http://lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard199.html

After reading, she said that nailed her feelings spot on....to which she said please teach me as much as possible.

People are waking up but it's slow. I have struggled with allowing people to wake up because I so desperately want to save as many people as I can that it hurts when I have to give up on someone.

"Patriotism is more closely linked to dissent than it is to conformity and a blind desire for safety and security." - Dr. Ron Paul

Agreed OP... unless you are Glenn Beck.

If you are not him OP, then don't worry you will not be judged and have a chance with all of us. There is only one person this doesn't apply to and it is the Beck-stabber of the Liberty Movement, Ron Paul, and Debra Medina. And please be advised if you read on further; that this is from a VERY patient man. (You'll see why at the end for the tone.)

Beck unlike everyone else has proven himself FUCKING untrustworthy. Heck it didn't even matter that Debra Medina was a coordinator for Beck's 9/12 project. All Beck ever does is sound great on the radio, online, TV, and get an audience that could turn the tide against statism within a few months;

HOWEVER.

EVERY.

FUCKING.

TIME.

HE WILL ATTACK OUR LIBERTY GRASSROOT MOVEMENT.

AND OUR FUCKING MEMBERS;

He does it almost on que during the primaries' election season; he funnels his efforts and followers against our hard work and efforts to get honest and small government politicians in office. People we KNOW and vetted, not simply because we are guessing they are good.

Simply because "omg.. they aren't Israel-first people?"; or "They want to be isolationist?" For Christ's sake, Debra was on the road to put a serious effort to remove Texas' Property Tax, or at LEAST sending that message loud and clear to Perry.

Just because she HYPO-FUCKING-THETICALLY didn't want to ax a 9/11 truther who may be employed on her campaign and not be using her campaign to promote his views. Just because the employee may have had 9/11 views. Lets not forget the fact Beck publicly questioned the 9/11 story. I'm not a 9/11 truther, but that is fucking Grade A Police State Bullshit.

He WILL sound great, OP. Oh man he will have you pumped up on hope that finally someone in the media has your back. You think, he has woken up! He knows what we are up against! He knows what we need to do! He knows why we need these people! Then when we advance on statism, we get BECK-STABBED.

So if you are not the traitor-in-chief know this; you may work hard for your candidate on a national even state stage because you know him.

- You may put in long hours to getting them elected even though you also have a full time job.

- You may stand in the sun and heat, wind and rain, cold and snow for hours trying to get your candidate noticed with the enthusiasm of a rocker fan at a concert seeing his idol.

- You very likely will lose money on the endeavor of getting them elected and fund rasing for them.

- Your family's patience may wear thin and strained at times, if they don't understand why you are doing what you do.

- Your voice may become weak from all the calls you made trying to reach out to voters.

- You may have been tired of running your heart out from cops putting up posters and signs where "you shouldn't be" even though you've never been in trouble with the law which is locally pretty fascist anyway.

- You may have spent countless hours trying to get the message of Liberty out online by coding, commenting, emailing, that your fingers are sore.

- You may have done a totally amazing project or one that has never done before like organizing a successful money bomb, or organizing an ad campaign with a Blimp that took tireless work.

And when you look up on TV and see the Beck; remember the countdown to the primaries knowing that it is only a matter of time before he erases all your countless hours of work, ruins any point for not spending time with your family, overrides your sheer passion; replaces your hope with fury and anger in a simple matter of minutes with his fucking opinion.

Pro-tip OP: Don't be Glenn Beck and ask the Liberty Movement for ANYTHING other than our middle fingers.

Wow! Yeah, the thing is...

...just this week, Beck was twisting Ron Paul's stance on ear marks as they childishly mocked him. He only mentions Ron Paul to bash him. So, it's not a matter of past events at all; this continues.

Beck will help wake people up, and those people will still find the voices that Beck insists on insulting, but if liberty is truly his goal it would be wise to stop mocking those who have been awake a long time.

*double post*

.

For all the media morons that

Pushed so hard to promote the Bush doctrine, the Neo-Con agenda and viciously attack anyone who dared oppose it such as our own Ron Paul...

Here's a fitting quote:
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."
George W. Bush - 2002

How many times are we willing to let these clowns run the circus?
-Anne Coulter-Charles Krauthammer-Glenn Beck-Bill Kristol-Michael Savage

“Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.” - Albert Einstein

Every time you link to their articles, you are enabling them

Promote our own guys; Lew Rockwell, Judge Nap, Ben Swann come to mind, there are plenty of others as well

The original insanity quote was from Ben Franklin.

Maybe Einstein said a different version of it.

yo

Go

Defeat the panda-industrial complex

I am dusk icon. anagram me.

wolfe's picture

You have properly addressed,,,

One of the main reasons for lack of traction in the libertarian movement.

Once awake, it is shameful to believe you were ever asleep and therefore try to forget you were once like the other sleepers. You will do this by criticizing, unduly, those who are coming around to around to understanding.

I will try to keep this brief, but a very long time ago, I was asked a very tough question by a fellow libertarian. I believed myself to have fully understood, and so when my response was "for her (my daughter) own good", and their response was, "how is that for her own good", I argued.

In time, I came to understand and agree with their statements, and I look back at my gut reaction as a failure on my part.

However, on the flip side, you have to understand that most libertarians do not like the mirror of our past selves held up in the form of current statists transforming into libertarians.

Tolerance on both sides is required.

P.S. But Beck and his ilk are douche bags and not, I hope, who you are talking about.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

This makes me think of Glenn Beck

I have a third bombshell, I am releasing it tomorrow.

You just got PAULED!

Beck seems to have

An unlimited amount of imaginary bombshells.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Agreed.

Everyone deserves a second chance. Even a third.

But don't let a drowning man bring you down.

Patience is a virtue. Love is the universal energy of the Universe.

But just as when the plane is going down and you're instructed to put your own oxygen mask on first, don't forget to love yourself first.

Over and out. Good thread.

He's the man.
SteveMT's picture

There is not much further to go before all is lost.

Patience is a virtue, but we're almost out of time. Is it better to try and wake-up those totally asleep, their never having heard the truth, versus those who already have heard the message, but do not totally accept it? With which person is the more profitable way to use the time that we have left? There is at least a positive shock value with those who don't know the Liberty message. The half awake people can many times elicit a frustration factor from me. No way is the right way; it's a case by case kind of thing. Patience is a virtue, but time's almost up. You have to know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em.

Charity in spirit

Charity doesn't just mean a monetary hand out. It is doing as this post suggests; give people a chance to discern the truth and to act accordingly.

Phxarcher87's picture

but

what if you are perfect?

THE CLASS OF CITIZENS WHO PROVIDE AT ONCE THEIR OWN FOOD AND THEIR OWN RAIMENT, MAY BE VIEWED AS THE MOST TRULY INDEPENDENT AND HAPPY.
James Madison

Then you are perfectly charming.

And perfectly kind.
And perfectly patient.

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

I Agree

I too was an apathetic sheep. It was Hank Paulson ripping us off for a trillion that got my attention.

I will never be the same.

Frankenstein Government

Michael Nystrom's picture

Welcome!

I always love to hear what it was that caused the awakening.

It is like those old zen stories. Here is one of my favorites:

The Moon Cannot Be Stolen

Ryokan, a Zen master, lived the simplest kind of life in a little hut at the foot of a mountain. One evening a thief visited the hut only to discover there was nothing in it to steal.

Ryokan returned and caught him. "You may have come a long way to visit me," he told the prowler, "and you shoud not return emptyhanded. Please take my clothes as a gift."

The thief was bewildered. He took the clothes and slunk away.

Ryokan sat naked, watching the moon. "Poor fellow, " he mused, "I wish I could give him this beautiful moon."

From:
www.101zenstories.com

He's the man.

Actually, Beck is a GREAT example

because so many people are totally unwilling to forgive him for how he treated Ron Paul and his supporters in 2007 and 2011. He was rude, nasty, condescending and sarcastic. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't nice. So if remember that then we should be sure that we are not doing the exact same thing.

"When I say liberty I do not simply mean what is referred to as 'free enterprise.' I mean liberty of the individual to think his own thoughts and live his own life as he desires to think and to live..." - Robert A. Taft

Beck is probably controlled opposition

He doesn't count. It's about the people. You can't convince a shill.