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Revealed: The top secret rules that allow NSA to use US data without a warrant - Greenwald

by Glenn Greenwald and James Ball
The Guardian | Thursday 20 June 2013

Fisa court submissions show broad scope of procedures governing NSA's surveillance of Americans' communication

  • Document one: procedures used by NSA to target non-US persons
  • Document two: procedures used by NSA to minimise data collected from US persons

Top secret documents submitted to the court that oversees surveillance by US intelligence agencies show the judges have signed off on broad orders which allow the NSA to make use of information "inadvertently" collected from domestic US communications without a warrant.

The Guardian is publishing in full two documents submitted to the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (known as the Fisa court), signed by Attorney General Eric Holder and stamped 29 July 2009. They detail the procedures the NSA is required to follow to target "non-US persons" under its foreign intelligence powers and what the agency does to minimize data collected on US citizens and residents in the course of that surveillance.

The documents show that even under authorities governing the collection of foreign intelligence from foreign targets, US communications can still be collected, retained and used.


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Notice how far out of the loop we are:

They quote the legal basis for gathering intelligence on US citizens as the following:

"section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 as amended".

We're 30 years out of the loop, but we've known this because echelon has been gathering dragnet type Intel on the American public since the early 1970's, under the guise of national security.

Bush made this all retroactivly legal with the patriot act. Against what the constitution demands "No EX-Post facto law" meaning you cannot make laws retroactive. The constitution spell's this out specifically.


"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon

I am laughing at what the

I am laughing at what the Guardian is doing with this material. Every time Obama opens his mouth on this subject. His foot ends up in his mouth. I think Obama needs to just be quiet and pray this goes away. I don't think that will happen. The NSA operation is criminal no matter what laws Congress creates. I am thinking they have been snooping on Judges and politicians. Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want. Right now they are looking like a genius. Some of the rulings on the supreme court the last year have me curious.

Judges, politicians,

According to CNN - Hastings was never under investigation

by the FBI - Wonder if Snowden can find something on that in his thumb drive?

God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it. – Daniel Webster

I read it... re-read it.

It's more like a 'treatise' on the reigning 'confusion' in trying to parse the degrees of separation between the 'legal' and documented..
classified or otherwise...
the ACTUAL and PRACTICED procedures.

In other words,
what Greenwald is publishing here are indeed non-disclosed and/or classified documents..
they just, if anything, show how 'loose' and superfluous any 'oversight' is... by the FISA Court.. by the broad language.. or by the very architecture (or lack of).

Simply put,
What's 'written' is one thing...
but every 'protection' we may have relies on the 'discretion'... NOT of the Courts or Officials...
of the Analysts themselves.. in the lower part of the food chain.
even THEY are 'privatized'... Booz Allen hirelings.

It's a mess. Greenwald is just peeling the onion... it's starting to stink already with just the DESIGN..
much less the IMPLEMENTATION.

And just how do people think this is ever getting reversed?

We've got the NSA running errands for whomever is holding the blackmail dirt on congress and SCOTUS... and congress is our only hope for stopping the NSA.

How do you stop a self-fulfilling catch-22?

Simple. You go after "whomever" that is behind it.

Namely, we take the money out of corruption.

Go local. Stop dealing with banks. Provide alternatives for others to do similar. Even just pushing for this one issue to take center stage above all others... I don't care but we have to take down those with the power over our entire human race.

Agreed...sort of...

I'm beginning to realize that the only thing we can do is prepare to live independently and stop giving our hard-earned money to the corporations that control the Leviathan. Those in control have already won beyond the point of no return, they control all of the power in every possible scenario. Your best bet is to move to a rural area, grow your own food, and learn to live simply. If you cut back costs you won't need to earn as much income and won't be giving your money to these corporations. Without our money they have no power.

If everyone did this then we could take down those in power, but so many people are brainwashed and easily misled/confused by the flood of information these days that is very unlikely to happen. Those in power will stay in power all the way through the mayhem of the system collapse. Rural America needs to survive this to pick up the pieces and be sure these evil people don't continue their takeover after the dust settles.

Most people aren't willing to make these lifestyle changes (or are too brainwashed/scared/ignorant to realize that they must to survive), but the ones that do will be much safer and more likely to survive when SHTF. And even if the system drags on for years you'll be much healthier and better off and that much more prepared for when it does eventually happen.

A massive solar flare?

The spiritual perspective.

That was the PRIMARY PURPOSE OF THE PROGRAM, just as all surveillance programs for normal, non-criminals are and have for ever been: CONTROL.

This is a spiritual battle, let me illustrate. Put aside your religion (atheism or other) and please consider the following objectively:

The gospel of Christ is one of FORGIVENESS and REPENTANCE with the central tenet being that it is possible for a sinner to genuinely repent and his past sins will be WIPED CLEAN for ever and ever.

The purpose of surveilling law abiding people is to gather data that will be used against them FOREVER AND EVER. There is no forgiveness. There is no repentence. It is used for POWER AND CONTROL over people. This is the polar opposite of the central tenet of Christ's message and happens to be the actual gospel of Satan, the Eternal Adversary.

Satan's plan for man is to CONTROL them. There is no forgiveness. There is no repentenance. Anything you EVER DO can and will be used against you FOR EVER AND EVER, regardless of whether you have actually grown and changed as a human being (repented), you will be PUNISHED FOREVER.

Free people do not monitor each other. It's as simple as that. Degenerate evil people do. Those who are literally asserting the gospel of Satan, of no forgiveness or repetenance, of control though BLACKMAIL of your sins for ever and ever do.

Reject control.

You make a lot of sense. Free will defeats Satan or any other buggy man. Live in light, love and be in control of yourself. Only way to go.

You don't.

In other words, Sauron now has the ring.

Even Sauron eventually met

Even Sauron eventually met his match thanks to a Hobbit at Mount Doom.

Did you miss the simple little fact here....

...that in the case we're talking about is that SAURON GOT THE EFFING RING, i.e. the hobbit FAILED and Sauron won.

So, leaving your fantasy behind. What now?

I take it you never really

I take it you never really read The Lord of the Rings?

I did. It's great.

But the parallel in real life is that it doesn't turn out like the book. In real life Sauron got the ring.

Reading now.


Here we go. More leaks from

Here we go. More leaks from Ed Snowden.