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Veterans Hold Key to 9/11 Truth-Justice

At: It's a Corporal Joke, Private

A sample from a high-traffic, middle-of-the-road political forum
board, where the hearts and minds are to be won for the 9/11 Truth-Justice

Originally Posted by Bushmaster
LMAO! You can "knowlege" from now until the end of time, but the official story will always remain the same. Lol get it? Without application your "knowlege" is worthless. Just like those schmoes who used to do cyber-sex... Without an actual woman they weren't actually having sex, right? Truth movement = same same. And 100 years from now the history books will reflect that.

Official Story: 12 (years)
Truth Movement: 0

In other words, even the disinformation artists (we have all run across them) concede that the rational debate over 9/11 truth has been won, by the truth movement, but the people are impotent in the face of enormous evil, and no action will ever be taken. Gloating that the cold-blooded murder of 3,000
Americans will never be avenged, even if what the Truth Movement says is true.

But is this true? Does diabolical evil always triumph over good?

Many regimes have held a far tighter iron grip on their country, and have fallen to rock bottom. During his 40 years in power, if you said Mubarak committed false flags to manipulate the Egyptian people, they would drag you away and pull out your fingernails. Fortunately, America has not yet come to this pass. In America, the problem is not so much people not having their freedoms, as much as people not using them, although this is gradually changing. Extraordinary rendition for American citizens, upheld by Obama, would put Americans outside the protection of all law, up to and including the threat of being murdered with impunity.

However, one man, a former Director of Studies at US Army War College, sees a road map to prosecution. Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former Marine, says that one constituency has the requisite lobbying power to force action. It is the veterans of the United States Armed Forces.

Sabrosky says the call will not come from the national command of the national veterans organizations, but from the local chapters. The local chapters are more independent and less involved in Washington politics than the national leaderships. Moreover, the call will be broadcast not by the national news
organizations, but by their local affiliates, which similarly have different agendas than their national office.

Sabrosky says it is in the power of the local veterans to shake up the logjam which prevents 9/11 Truth from becoming 9/11 Justice, and to change the political landscape forever. It is inevitably politically unpopular for a congressman to turn a deaf ear to veterans who have served their country, and fought in its wars. The plethora of preferences for veterans in jobs and education in the US Code is evidence of this.

But what to call for, exactly?

Calling for a true investigation has its merits, but can elicit its own feeling of hopelessness. What is to guarantee that a new commission will not be as compromised as the old one? Who will chose what members sit on it? There is a feeling among some 9/11 truth advocates that the public is all “commissioned out.”

But tell the Awake that you are working for a prosecution, and that might get ten minutes of his or her time. Don't tell me you're going to start another commission. We know what happens with those. Those &^%$ belong in jail, period.

Fortunately (but unfortunately for some,) there is a trail of evidence which leads to one participant, to an open-and-shut case. No great crime can succeed without destruction of the evidence, and on 9/11, this task fell to former Mayor of New York Rudy Giuliani.

Contracts for the shipping of the steel to China to be melted were signed, all under the authority of the Mayor of New York, and they are pieces of paper in black and white.

Rudy was a bag man, a low level henchman. But that is where you always start when bringing down a cabal, and that is all we are talking about. Rudy can easily be threatened with 10 years of jail time for felony destruction of evidence in a capital crime. Rudy could chose to do his time quietly, or say who gave him the order to do this, in return for easy time or a grant of immunity. Any prosecutor who has one constituent who was harmed by the crime of 9/11 can bring the case, under the “effects” doctrine of the law.

Best of all, one need not be a 9/11 Truther to find merit in the case. At the very least, this was the unprecedented collapse of three steel-framed high-rises, due to fires, never seen before or since. If only for the lost chance to learn how to make buildings safer, the destruction of 99.5% of the steel evidence was a crime.

Merely bringing the case has multiple benefits. If one falls on the side of 9/11 Truth-Justice, it serves as a warning to future bag men that there will be a price to pay, therefore making the planning of false flag attacks more difficult. That makes us safer. No one wants to be the one to go to jail. If one is merely interested in making the job safer for our brave firefighters, it would serve warning that such forensic evidence is not to be destroyed.

If Rudy decides not to do his time nicely, all bets are off. All senior ranking members of the Bush administration, including Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Dov Zakheim, and Douglas Feith, would need to be immediately ordered not to leave the country. For the time being.

It's a win-win, and then win some more. Veterans should want to get to the bottom of the event which provided the impetus for two wars - wars that killed so many of their brothers.


James Madison writes under this pseudonym, in the tradition of the American Revolution's Publius, in order that arguments must be judged solely on the merits. He is a graduate of an Ivy League college and a well-known writer.


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its terrible that

I think that the expectation that veterans have any desire to raise the fraud flag around the 911 tomb is courting a bizarre pathos .. it will never happen .. why should it ??? what gives .. These are symbols of desperate minds looking to take vengeance or exact satisfaction for their own self satisfaction and not that of another abused >> a certain dagger in the aftermath >> and who are unable to think that it was and is and that is that .. who the hell is going to lead the way after all .. is time waiting for the right moment .. tragically, thousands are dead and none of those left behind want to fight and show the bluster to bring it on ?? why ..

Because there are people everywhere who know the truth but

...don't have a clear road map for exerting meaningful political pressure, and Sabrosky provides one. His idea could work. Also courage is contagious as Ed Snowden told us when he said he was inspired by Bradley Manning. Knowing the kind of life he would have, knowing the cost to him and his family, he made a decision that our short time on this earth should actually mean something, not just be spent running from the closest bully. We breath more freely already for what he has done. He has nailed his name in the pages of history forever as a patriot. 200 years from now people will be speaking his name. His life meant something, no matter what happens next.

Release the Sandy Hook video.

"Terror" is an intangible

"Terror" is an intangible invisible abstract concept of the human imagination pertaining to thoughts of manifestations of violent acts. Everyone has the capability of having terroristic thoughts. And you're gonna spend trillions of dollars waging a war on it. How pathetic.

Too many conned assholes out there.

I noticed that early. "War on terror" a very deliberate choice

of words.

Release the Sandy Hook video.

fireant's picture

Here are the hoops you'll have to jump through to make your case

1. It would have been impossible to conduct search and rescue without removing debris immediately.
2. Investigators from FBI, ATF, FEMA, NYPD, FDNY were on-site asap, viewing all material removed.
3. All debris was stored and inspected at the three landfills by teams from FEMA and ASCE. Nothing was released until signed off by those teams. Nothing left those sites for six months.
4. All of the above investigators will testify there was no sign of foul play in the debris.
5. Hundreds of first responders will testify there was no sign of foul play in the debris. First responders include volunteers from FD and EMS all over the country.
6. Hundreds of hours of video and thousands of photos will be produced to show there was no sign of foul play in the debris.
That's just a start. If you are going to try and convince veteran groups to take up this cause, you need to be busy finding structural evidence of foul play. I can save you the effort. I have spent untold hours combing the structural debris, talking to first responders, officials, and can find nothing but evidence of the buildings being ripped apart at their connectors. Not one sign of CD in the structural members.
I still have a very difficult time understanding why this tack is taken, when the hard evidence shows the Bush Adm obstructed both commissions regarding the planning and financing of the operation. That would be the path of least resistance to uncover whoever the perps were.

Undo what Wilson did

This One's for you, fireant


O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

fireant's picture

And that helps your case how?


Undo what Wilson did

I'm getting the sense

more and more lately, our Favorite Trolls here on the DP are not local boys and girls... I doubt very seriously if they are US citizens. Then where might they be tuning in from???

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

fireant's picture

Who are "they"???

Speak your mind. Stop beating around the bush. Are you calling me a troll? If so, hope you've got something to back it up.

Undo what Wilson did

Tuned in all the way from Beersheva; or TA; or Hertzilya;

I doubt very seriously whether or not any American Citizen here on the DP would speak the way you do

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

fireant's picture

You should do some research before jumping to conclusions.

Is that how you make your decisions about 911 too? No wonder you are confused. I'd suggest you research my posting history here on DP prior to attempting slander. You only make yourself look foolish.

Undo what Wilson did

2 yrs

I've been quietly affronted by your nonsense here for 2 years.
I'm just simply not going to let you get a free pass anymore

I don't think you are a citizen, and yes, this is based on experience, and yes, I stand behind this assertion. No US citizen would behave the way you have over the 2 yrs I've observed your posts

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

fireant's picture

Is it the way I behave or what I say?

And you can't possibly back up 2 years. It wasn't even a year ago that go213mph posted a thread about the Pentagon which caused me to delve deeper into the 911 issue, and from there I began to change. So you have no clue of what you speak.
I think it's because you don't like what I say. I'm not on the "truther" plantation. Sorry I don't qualify for your club.
I think you are being duped. Either that, or you are the troll, keeping everyone on the plantation so as to distract from finding the truth.

Undo what Wilson did

Yes if you deny a conspiracy

Yes if you deny a conspiracy theory with facts and leave those arguing with you on here unable to intelligently respond, then you obviously are a troll or gov't agent. I mean they've totally went away from discussing the issue at hand to personally attacking you, tells me they can't refute your argument or they would. I see this time and time again on here in conspiracy threads. And I'm not anti-conspiracy theory either, but guess what people, not all (or most that I've seen) are correct. Your first comment was spot on in my opinion.

fireant's picture

Thanks mrbengal

It does get lonely and tiresome battling the personal attacks. Appreciate your comments.
I am not anti-conspiracy either. I just want it to have some veracity, and after a very long study, I have found controlled demolition has none. What mystifies me is the obvious obstruction by the Bush adm, and the CD faithful won't touch it. Makes no sense.

Undo what Wilson did

why do you come to the DP?

I've noticed some groups of people are much more comfortable with duplicity than are others.

I for one will stand for Liberty, Love, and will always speak my mind and my heart freely. And I will fear no man. So I ask again, why do you continue to return to the DP?

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

fireant's picture

I don't appreciate the tone of your question.

Research my posting history if you are so concerned. There you will find your answer.

Undo what Wilson did

Thanks for the belly laugh. I stuck my head out the window,

...and the fox said the chickens are doing just fine, all is well. That's how funny it is, you saying FEMA signed off on nothing suspicious before the evidence was destroyed.

Additionally, clearly no one is challenging the necessity of clearing the debris from ground zero, we are talking about the next step of shipping it to China and India to be melted. So you reveal yourself as a standard, boring run of he mill disinfo, deliberately misrepresenting the question.

The only thing you said which was true as "the buildings ripped apart at their connectors." Hey funny how that happened! The towers standing there for all those years without this happening, then suddenly a few small fires which firefighters said they could put out with "two lines" (hoses) causes the buildings to rip themselves apart. Then in the same breath you say there was "not one sign of a CD." Do you know how retarded that is?

That's like saying "all we found was some holes in the victim, but there was no evidence of a shooting."

In the below capture of the south tower, ten to 30 foot lengths of steel beam can be seen spinning away at explosive speeds like tooth picks. How does that happen if the steel "got soft" and "collapsed?"


Following clearly shows the arcing streamers of debris in the China demolition, very similar to those seen coming off the twin towers. The "top-down" style of demolition is rarer than traditional bottom-up implosion, and is used for taller buildings where cutting it from the bottom to the top introduces a tipping danger.

"Banana peel" demolition in China, same type as the towers:


Release the Sandy Hook video.

fireant's picture

Cut to the chase...

either produce structural evidence of CD or you have no case. The evidence is there for you to view, same as I have done.

Undo what Wilson did

ok what would you consider structural evidence of a CD?

- uniform length core and perimeter beams cut cleanly at the ends, blown out for up to 3 football fields away from the towers

- presence of explosives residue

- molten steel which can be caused only by a high-energy exothermic reaction, like the thermitic reaction

Well whaddya know. We got em all.

Release the Sandy Hook video.

fireant's picture

You contradict the premise of your thread.

I thought all the evidence was destroyed. How could you possibly have found any cleanly cut beams if the evidence was all destroyed?
There are no "cut" beams. They all have their factory lengths and ends. All of their connectors show stretching and shearing. Besides, how is it some 60+ floors of both cores were still standing, though briefly, after everything else had collapsed, if they were cut apart in order to bring the building down?

Undo what Wilson did

No, they are straight as arrows showing no heat deformity

lol your circular logic, a demand for evidence when the topic is about the destruction of that evidence.

Fear not. You guys made a big mistake. You forgot about the satellite photo taken 10 days after the attacks. It shows a carpet of arrow-straight, cut steel beams up to 3 football fields away. Geez I always thought gravity pulled downward. And I thought the steel got all soft and bendy.

Aerial Photo Shows 9/11 Towers Exploded Out, Did Not Collapse Down

Release the Sandy Hook video.

fireant's picture

Did you ever ask yourself why those core beams are on top of the

piles? Hint: they were the LAST to fall.
Please explain how, if they were cut apart to bring the building down, they ended up on top of the piles. Wouldn't everything else have fallen on top of them, covering them up?
Yes, they are arrow straight for the most part. That's because they were still standing after everything else collapse around them. It was only in the impact and fire zones where we find deformed structural members, with a few exceptions where collapsing weight bent lower beams.

Undo what Wilson did

You are tying yourself in knots. The official story is that

the steel got soft and collapsed. The question isn't why are there some core beams on top (there are other smaller beams on top too) but what are they doing flung out all the way to Church St., two football fields away from the nearest tower. Here you can see the cut beams being blown out at 80PMH (it has been calculated):

And here is the explanation (which I have shown you but you conveniently ignored.) It was a "banana peel" style demo, top-down rather than bottom to top. they are used for taller buildings where tipping might be a danger from a more common bottom to top implosion.

You aren't very good at this are you?

Release the Sandy Hook video.

fireant's picture

Structural evidence Sue4theBillofrights, like this:

This type evidence is prolific in the debris.
Show us some evidence of cut up beams. Show us some demo timers. Find some first responders who saw any of the above.

Undo what Wilson did

Once again you have not answered why the cut beams in the photo

are arrow-straight, uniform lengths, and how they are exploded laterally at speeds of 80mph. The evidence I have shown you is in context and from an official source. You post some Mickey Mouse picture that could be anything from anywhere, and proves nothing.

How stupid do you think the people at this site are, hasbarat?

Release the Sandy Hook video.

Btw I was not talking about

Btw I was not talking about you above Sue, I respect that you argue the issues and do not just resort to personal insults.

Cut beams

fireant's picture

Why do you call them cut?

Show some evidence they were cut. They are factory lengths, some still joined. You have shown no evidence of any cut beams. I don't care about the rest of it at this point. Cut to the chase. Produce some evidence the members were cut with thermate or cutter charges.
Here is video from Fresh Kills landfill, showing similar parts of my previous post, which is the butt end of side wall from one of the Towers:

Undo what Wilson did

Um, well, usually when something that was one continuous

welded and cross-braced member is sitting on the ground in a 100 straight pieces, that pretty much means it was cut. You know, chop chop. English not your first language? I think the dude in above comment is right.

If they were not cut they would be continuous, long twisted beams, as the official story suggested we would find. They got "soft like clay" remember? You guys can't even remember your own lies.

This is also the fourth time you have ignored how they come to be blown out laterally at speeds of 80mph. You are very poor at this game, but we'll take the free bumps to keep the article rotation interesting.

Release the Sandy Hook video.