24 votes

Only Civil Disobedience Will Win Our Liberty Back!

Only violence will win our liberty back.

You don't think so? Who are we kidding?

I write post on Facebook about the intrusions of the NSA and other government programs. I tell them to write their representatives as I have. Write their senators. I tell them not to let these transgressions against US, the people by way of destroying our Constitution, simply fade into yesterday's news without incident, without there being a vote forced on this issue.

I disseminate the truth to the men in my Infantry company and watch the truth spread like wildfire through the ranks. They say they will uphold their oaths...most of them...and most of the senior NCOs and officers. I think many of them understand it now. But what are they suppose to do? Spread the word?

Once that happens, they'll do what I do. Tell everyone they know the truth. But then what? Once THAT happens? They can start to demand change...but how? How does one without power and authority "demand" change? These are things I catch myself saying all the time. "DEMAND CHANGE!!!"

Writing your representatives won't demand change. Neither will writing your senators. HA! That's IF they even really read it for themselves, and IF they are the one's that even email you back.

The game is over and the media controls the character of our people. The people are lazy, worse, they are complacent. In the military there is a popular phrase...complacency kills. This is in reference to IEDs. Come on though, wake up! Our government is dropping tyrannical bombs on us left and right and the news only fades to darkness.

The only way we can demand change is through violence. Until there is blood spilled, there will be no change. Until we show them WE have the authority and the POWER to DEMAND change...nothing will. Until we are ready to give up what we love, to get what we need to strive as humans, LIBERTY, then we will continue to wither and suffocate under the oppression that is being unleashed against us daily! Don't be confused, there are many veterans that stand with you. Ironically, we as Americans love to praise our troops (although less so here) if not for their effort to fight wars, for the bravery to stand and DIE for what they believe. There are many veterans, including me who don't believe in these wars, who get the system, who understand the Federal Reserve, petrodollar, and more. It doesn't mean we understood when we joined, but that doesn't take away from the point that we served for the right reasons, which is for the LIBERTY that we THOUGHT we had.

So let me ask you this. If we want to give all this credit to our military for being brave to keep us "free", then why is there no credit to be given to the citizen who is brave enough to actually stand up to be free? Like Snowden? The soldiers can't do it all. The backbone of our country is the citizen. It's you and me. I may be a soldier, but I am a citizen FIRST. America needs context in which to judge their "heroes". We need to be willing to die for our liberty. Rather, die for our son's and daughter's liberty. We all know they will have none in their lives with the progression of government today.

Bottom line. We need to push our limits to show we have power as people. We need to find a way to fire up America as a whole and stand up and make a change. Not by writing, by ACTING OUT. Americans are the weapons we need to win the war for our liberty. Like a sword, this weapon cannot be made when the "steel" is cold. It must be hot and the fire and passion for liberty must be ignited to make a change. It is on us, the informed to make this change. It is on us to initiate the movement. WE must ignite the flame in which this weapon can even be forged.

Although the violence I call for may be that of our own government acting against us, we must show civil disobedience. We must. Change will NOT happen without it. We can't let people like Adam Kokesh stand alone. That march on DC is exactly what we needed. No one wants violence. I don't. But the change we so desperately need must be demanded. The only proven way to do that, is by civil disobedience. We did not strike first, they have. And we haven't even gone as far as civil disobedience.

I'll leave you with what is surely one of our all time favorites.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

Sincerely. With love, and for liberty.

PL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xHr4vAEROc&feature=player_d...

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So, in other words, you have no ideas.

If you have specifics, why not share them. I am open.

How does a debt slave fight back and bring the system to its knees?

I mean, you are the "Sovereign Human" ! You have already carved out your own independence somehow. I was asking if you had a specific action plan that you could share, so that we might join you in your sovereignty. I'm sorry if that offended you.

Your response is sufficiently vague that you must really know a lot. At least share with me who this single "entity that owns all and controls all" really is. Is he a Jew? I'll bet he is.

SEDM.org

Check out this highly researched site. The site starts with an outlined path to freedom. You may learn who you truly are in the realm of governance.

methinks someone didn't read his Etienne de la Boetie

Here ya go:
http://mises.org/document/1218

Violence is not the answer, my friend. Peace be with you.

“Although it was the middle of winter, I finally realized that, within me, summer was inextinguishable.” — Albert Camus

Or Post

I'm not advocating violence

I am totally against any talk of violence or lawlessness

for many reasons. chiefly among them is it would never ever work. I really would hate to see anyone go down such a futile path. This isn't 1776, and King George was a harmless buffoon compared to the cold blooded techno-facists one would be combating,

First, they would crush you before you ever got started and you would be sharing a prison cell with a car jacker somewhere, watching John Stossel on Fox call you a traitor. Thanks to the blessings of modern technology, there is no longer any way to even peaceably assemble and exchange ideas with likeminded people without the Feds building a dossier on your ass. Even local police forces are equipped like military units with their armored cars and drones and facial recognition. Anyone who tried anything would simply be throwing their life away.

And civil disobedience? That means a criminal record, right? For me that means losing my job and not being able to find another, Who is going to risk that?

Maybe some super organized mass boycotts might have some measure of success. Hit the bastards in their wallet. Punish the corporations who flood the capital with 30,000 lobbyists. But what a monumental task it would be to organize something like that. We are too divided for such things anyway.

That being said, the premise is correct. Political action will never work. Even though I can dream, in my heart of hearts, I don't think a Rand Paul Presidency would make much of a difference. If he really tried to take radical steps, he wouldn't even live through his first term. And if he tried to unravel the socialist state and monetary mess, the people would never accept the short term economic pain that would surely result.

The media is all establishment now. The congress is corrupt. The Supreme Court is impotent. We are on a high speed train to hell, and ain't nothing going to slow it.

The only thing that might bring about radical change is poverty and depression, which is certainly coming. Once people's cable TV goes dark, they will be pissed. But it won't bring the change you and I want. It will bring total Fascism, with the blessings of the people. The politicians and the media will channel all the anger and frustration toward destroying the last vestiges of freedom.

Don't fool yourself. The people are ignorant, disinterested and uninformed. They will not have your backs. People with 60'"Plasma's never take to the streets.

As a theoretical exercise, the only possibility of a fundamental change that you speak of would be some form of a coup d'état at the highest levels, led by some major major players. But Billie Joe Bob and his hunting rifle would play no role at all.

So the only thing to do, sadly, is read through the constitution one last time, for old times sake, mumble some curses at the dirty rotten traitorous scoundrels who destroyed our Republic, and then pack it up in the closet and forget about it.

Then go join a survivalist forum somewhere and start storing dried beans.

We are toast. Take care of your family as best you can. Pray to the Lord, if you have one... and take it one day at a time. Nothing lasts forever.

COURAGE

That's what we need. This proves my point. Very good, very valid post.

But if we, even us, the informed are unwilling to act out civil disobedience...then there IS no hope. It is exactly as you have said, a train straight to hell, no stops.

Are we really that comfortable? I suppose we are, I don't want to lose my job, I don't want a record. But you know, Rosa Parks has been awarded medals since she got a criminal record...

But, I do feel ya. I think you put your thoughts into words MUCH better than 90% of people who commented, bravo.

I respect your passion and i understand your frustration.

Perhaps there are possibilities we can't yet see. Maybe there is some hope. I try to persuade people. I post on non-political message boards and talk to friends, I haven't given up.

But I wish someone could organize us in a way that made sense; something akin to the civil rights movement of the 60's or the Indian Freedom movement; something involving boycotts or a letter wring campaign. Something!

Voting every four years just aint getting it.

Exactly

I agree

You're completely correct

History proves that free societies only pop up every several hundred years. Not everyone is cut out for freedom. Since national freedom is likely over for the next several centuries or millennia, one has to consider other possibilities. Personal freedom may be attainable reigning and ruling over the slaves. It's not really in the interest of the elites to kill every last human being, and there is a vast enough majority that wants slavery that the elite can thin the crowded neighborhood without harming you. Or we all find a suitable country for a mass exodus from America. We need to work with Mexican coyotes to secure safe passage out for the latter plan.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Patriot Charged With Murder

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/26/aaron-hernandez-taken-...

Please don't make that headline refer to more than just Aaron Hernandez, of the NFL Patriots.

I understand (I think) where you are coming from. Civil disobedience leads to violence against the perpetrators, which is unacceptable to the public, which then rises up to put pressure back on an unjust government.

But I caution you to be careful with your words. Not everyone will read everything you wrote. Furthermore, not everyone will understand it. Many people only read headlines and jump to their own conclusions.

I don't think civil disobedience has to lead to violence. So far it hasn't with Snowden, and that story is not yet written.

I do not condone violence, and I don't like this headline on the Daily Paul. Please change it, or I'll do it for you.

Words have consequences - much further than you will ever realize. So be careful what you wish for.

To be mean is never excusable, but there is some merit in knowing that one is; the most irreparable of vices is to do evil out of stupidity. - C.B.

Kent State

That's a good example. I would certainly hope, and I feel like the Daily Paul crowd would be wise enough to extrapolate the meaning of this post. It calls for civil disobedience, as you stated, NOT a violent revolution.

The post is two fold. First, a call for civil disobedience because NOTHING is being done about any of this news that we have endured. If the NSA wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back, I don't know what will be. The assassination of U.S. citizens certainly wasn't. The implications are ENDLESS when we are talking about unprecedented massive data collection. The entire issue is being glossed over by the "treasonous" "traitor" Snowden. What solutions are there left other than civil disobedience?

Second, it was to show that it will end in violence. It's not a happy thought, and it's not my wish. It's not even a solution that I see anyone taking against this government. However, when there is civil disobedience on a scale that will be required to actually change this country, there will be, exactly as you said, violence against the perpetrators.

I don't see any other solution to our problems other than civil disobedience at this point. I'd love to hear ideas so I could spread them. Because that idea would probably take a lot less courage.

Deck of Cards

I agree voting is 100% waste of time. Most discussion of non-violence is born of fear of death, but timing is everything. Food shortages and martyrdom are needed to turn popular opinion toward violence, and you need the numbers on your side. Throwing the first punch will lose favor in the public's eye. Offing figureheads wouldn't change anything either. Their peers will play the martyr card, and they are easily replaced by other figureheads. If any violence is to be done, it is to be done discreetly without planning (which can be intercepted) and against the backroom string pullers whom the public won't recognize or care about and whom actually matter - Evelyn Rothschild and the like. A deck of playing cards should have the faces of the international banking cartel lords as targets of opportunity.

Also, consider that the American Revolution was not won so much by patriots but by France using America as a proxy war against the British. Once the current world war is in its third act, America's puppet government will be overextended and vulnerable. Foreign funding and military hardware could support our troops in repelling DHS and TSA militants. Leading up to this, it would be wise to maintain redundant, public maps pinpointing domestic weapon caches, so they can be overrun after DHS begins their hollow point killing spree and the public supports such action, and to teach the public how to communicate secretly and hijack control of predator drones. Ultimately, tyranny or freedom both require public support. If public support never turns in favor of freedom, in my mind it makes most sense to join the tyrants and help them slay the people who indirectly ask to be slain. Why impose freedom on those who don't want it?

WTF?

"If public support never turns in favor of freedom, in my mind it makes most sense to join the tyrants and help them slay the people who indirectly ask to be slain. Why impose freedom on those who don't want it?"

Perhaps you should spend some time thinking about this statement.

It's just a bare knuckle thought exercise

If the people of a nation want freedom, then it is worthwhile and possible to stand for freedom. But if the people of a nation want to be subjects, national freedom is impossible. I am not an advocate for slavery no more than I am an advocate for smoking pot, but if somebody wants it, that's their choice. I cannot impose it on them. There are currently no free nations on Earth, so moving doesn't give me personal freedom. History proves that totalitarianism is the normal social order of mankind with brief, regional interludes of free societies. And at no time in history has there ever been such absolute totalitarian power as there is in the United States right now (surveillance=totalitarianism). If totalitarianism is at this point irreversible and exodus is not an option and the masses desire totalitarianism, then the only option to be personally free is to join the ruling class. It would only be selling out if the people actually wanted to be free, but they don't.

Let's say 2% of Americans desire liberty, 1% are slave masters and 97% want to be slaves. With those demographics, the 2% cannot force a society that 98% don't want, but they can join the 1% to experience personal liberty and rule over the 97% and quit bugging the 1%. Within the Liberty Movement, there is a egocentric view that other people are not happy unless they are free. You and I would rather be dead than enslaved, but we are demographic oddities. People in North Korea eat dirt to fill their bellies, but they genuinely adore their Dear Leader. If freedom were imposed on them, they would be miserable. It's not if you can't beat them, join them, but rather give the market what it wants.

Or am I growing too cynical?

Civil Disobedience.

I'm wearing those keys OUT.

Was it non-violence or violence...

...which brought about the changes during the civil right era?

Answer: BOTH.

the non-violent movement of MLK Jr. with the stark contrast of the government violence they were received with played on the morality of the nation, and forced people to look deeper.

There were also the Black Panthers, some might say they had a hand too in being the counter point to MLK's non-violent movement - something frightful which made many want to embrace MLK all the more.

One thing which is for certain, it wasn't an act of congress passing a bill which forced America to desegregate, it was activism.

EXACTLY

I'm glad someone caught what I was saying.

WE may have to endure the violence via CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE before we get any change. I am advocating that we stand up and take the lead on this. NOT push for violence. I'm also not saying to get slaughtered. If people die, and that starts a revolution then it was obviously a much needed one.

Thank you for picking that up, even though I don't think you extrapolated that from my post.

Regrettably, I believe the violence you speak of will come

so I say don't work actively for it.
I also think it a terrible strategy that you let your intentions be known. The enemy always goes for the leaders first. Never make announcements - just look at Brietbart. Snowden did the smart thing - had all the documentation in place and scattered, and it's a shame that Hastings didn't do the same thing.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

If we don't lead this movement

of civil disobedience, it will all work out just as it has last time. We have been the intellectual awakening of this movement. WE have started this change. Ron Paul won, and we all know it.

We have to not only stay the intellectual leaders, but we have to be brave in strongly speaking out against this via civil disobedience as well. We need to secure a position in this R3VOLUTION.

I don't want open warfare, I just feel like if we did anything to show our force, our numbers, our authority, it would be quelled harshly and with violence. Hence, it's the only way to win our liberty back.

Much as I would like to see Lindsay Graham

Hung and swinging by the neck from the tallest tree for treason or better yet:

Abducted and locked in a room with some vials of sodium pentothal and a good cam and mic with a long list of questions;

I'd have to reject the violence solution generally.

Ah, CONTEXT. LOL

You must read the entire post, I appreciate your torture sarcasm though. haha.

Don't need torture

Hence the sodium pentothal. ;)

Election fraud will continue

to be the one thing that blocks us. Election fraud and theft is what kept Ron Paul from being president, and it will continue. If we don't gain ground or do something about our elections being rigged, then no amount of "peaceful" revolution will save us.

Agree. Counting on elections "to change" things won't work...

For RP supporters, that's a jelly-roll-laugh. Given what NSA whistleblowers, maestros of algorithms, have told us...

Oath-breakers need to be dealt with. Starting LOCALLY.

State to state.

Local. State. Federal. . . Regardless of election cycles.

Not USING the Bill of Rights is exactly what causes the LOSS of the Bill of Rights.

With my parents, a handshake was good 'nuf. Then, thru-out my life, it got real bad. You needed a solid contract: signed, sealed, delivered.

And then it became, so what? Got property that goes back 2/3/4 generations, in Texas? Koch Brothers can fuck you with a phone call to 'your representative'.

I think Comptroller, Debra Medina, could be our next whistleblower.

"If you want something you've never had before, you have to do something you've never done before." Debra Medina

Hence

Civil disobedience, which will NOT end peacefully I am sure. But it's the only way to change ANYTHING. We are not going to get paper ballots again.

We probably won't stop the NSA right now, which by all accounts will only continue their collection of data, and if they aren't already, they will use it to blackmail compliance of all officials.

The problem

The problem starts when they take the boxes of ballets and say "we need to take these to this quiet room back here and count them, but you can't come in". We need to have layers and "real" officers there who share are love for liberty, which will take some recruiting. I guess I'm just thinking we need to have a solid plan for next election. Civil disobedience will most likely happen, but I want to make sure there is no other way.

In Canada

the ballots are counted right at the ballot box in front of everyone and anyone who's willing to stay and watch. Anyone can challenge any single ballot that doesn't meet the criteria of a clear selection. They are also allowed to see a copy of the voter list. So you can't sneak in dead people or have a person vote twice anywhere. The vote totals have to match the number of votes caste, so there can't be any prestuffing of the box (which the scrutineers are allowed to check before the first vote) and then the amounts get pooled and the whole polling station's totals get phoned in. If you were at the polling station after the count you would be able to verify that the numbers called in are actually reported as such. The best part is that after the election, the votes for each ballot box still exist. It doesn't take long, but I don't think we vote for as many representatives as you guys at the same time because municipal, provincial and federal elections are held separately. The point is, you'd have to have a lot of people cheating to move the numbers by any considerable amount and it would be very difficult to do as long as their was at least one scrutineer watching.

Perhaps that's the civil disobedience

we need. Hijack the polling stations, destroy the voting machines first thing and print enough paper ballots for people to have a vote that counts. A clear message, no violence, and it's the type of disobedience that inspires without dividing. People want it and there wouldn't be enough police to stop it from happening everywhere. A dozen polling stations this election cycle may turn into a few thousand for the next.

Love it

I love it! This is the PERFECT start. You would have to be the first in line and start the breaking early. Expect a good tasing too. I love this though. Hey, we paid for the damn cheat machines anyway. lol. AWESOME. I like the thought even, people criticized kokesh without any alternatives. this is nice. I bet there is a hefty penalty attached to this. If you bring enough ballots, and break it before anyone votes, you should be good. I'm sure there is a way to break them without walking in with a bat too...we need some good magnets