-39 votes

Bestiality, is there a victim?

Ok, it's out there so we might as well reason it out. Bestiality. First, in a libertarian society should the government be authorized to restrict its practice? Is there a victim? If so, is it a legitimate argument for the government's restricting of homosexual marriage?

A friend of mine brings up a good point with regard to the logic of this argument. If we allow people to carry guns, should we allow gorillas to carry them too? Should Toonsis the cat really be denied the "privilege" of driving?

Sure, bestiality is disgusting, I'm not arguing that, I think homosexual sex is disgusting as well. But should the state prohibit these activities with violence?

Maybe the thing to do would be to flip the argument. If homosexual marriage was already not illegal, What if we promoted a law outlawing bestiality and inter-species marriage? Would the homosexual community argue against it because it was a slippery slope to outlawing gay relationships and marriage? Would anarchist and libertarians protest at the capital steps to protect the freedoms of animal lovers?

Rand Paul is at least attempting to validate the slippery slope argument apparently, although I think (hope) he was just placating the blue hairs...


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I would say it is a crime on

I would say it is a crime on this basis. We have consent laws regarding intoxication in which if someone, usually a female, is too drunk etc to consent to sexual intercourse the act can be deemed as rape.

In the case of an animal, the animal inherently does not possess the cognitive capacity to consent to the sexual act and would thus be a crime as well.

From a philosophical legal standpoint this is a tough one but that is the best I could come up with.

We all share this eternally evolving present moment- The past and future only exist as inconsequential mental fabrications.

sharkhearted's picture

Yes, there is a victim.

The animal...which does not most likely have the cognitive ability to give consent.

Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

I would agree. I like Temple

I would agree. I like Temple Grandin's philosophy, that while animals are property, they are also capable of experiencing pain, so in that regard we should treating them accordingly.

yes there is a victim

The animal is a victim.

The Libertarian principle generally states "two consenting adults" - In the case of pedophilia, even if the child is willing, the argument is that the child is not mature enough to know better; that the adult is taking advantage of the child.

an interesting question

How would a libertarian society view bestiality? My initial take on this is that it would depend on whether or not legal cases dealing with this topic are brought in front of the courts. I can't imagine that happening very often. Someone would have to bring suit, and since it would not be the animal, it would either be a concerned neighbor or some PETA type. How would the court rule? Perhaps one court would rule in favor of the plaintiff and another court would rule in favor of the defendant. The free market would either favor one type of decision or there wouldn't be enough of an incentive for people to choose courts only based on their bestiality stance and both types of decisions would exist.

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

How about food?

Bachmann & Perry, Dualing Corn Dogs:

"One resists the invasion of armies; one does not resist the invasion of ideas" Victor Hugo

Rand will NEVER get my vote!

As a gay Libertarian I will defend his right to speak. BUT I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR THIS FUCKING BIGOT. MAN DID RAND PUT HIS FAMILY NAME IN A BAD WAY.. I BET RON IS DISAPPOINTED IN RAND! It was bad enough the bigot back Romney.

Same here

I am also a gay libertarian and Rand has done everything possible to make sure I never vote for him.

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that this whole "gay marriage will lead to people marrying their dogs" is just a disgusting attack on gay people.

I don't flaunt my sexuality to people I just want to be left alone. I don't attack heterosexual people for wanting to love each other so I would like it if they could return the same courtesy.


When you say you are a gay libertarian. Do you mean happy or flag pole sitting kind of gay?


You don't need to voilate my free speech. Please reinstate my comment, arseholes. I need no protection.

I have always had mixed feelings about Rand also, but ...

I think calling him a "f...ing bigot" is really a bit much. You don't know him personally, and you are judging him. What we do know about Rand, is that he plays politics, and for that reason alone, you should know that whatever comes out of his mouth is not necessarily an accurate reflection of what he personally believes. In his interview with Glenn Beck, really, there is no doubt the reason he was saying this was to tell an audience what Rand believes that audience wanted to hear. Then he turned around later and stated that he felt what the Supreme Court did was appropriate.

You might be disappointed with the way that Rand plays politics, but you also have to balance that out with many good things that Rand has stood up for. Personally, Rand does not quite meet my level of standards, but I have to admit that he is better than the overwhelming majority of politicians, and I really think that he does not deserve to have his character bashed over something like the Glenn Beck interview. Rand is nothing like a Rick Santorum or a Romney.

yea you might be right.

Rand dances the dance says what that Nazi party wants him To say or do. I am Libertarian my standards are WAY TOO HIGH FOR THESE SCUMBAGS! Comparing bestality to gay marriages is sick! SORRY I will Not back Rands slimy politics if he runs for President.

hey matt

What does sperm taste like?

Grow up

The childish comment of the year.

You had to go there?

I would like to think we had some respect for each other. Sure sometimes we get mad but this was uncalled for.

He probably won't answer you, but I will..

Go ask your dad.

I get it, dormouse

Rump roasters gots to stick together. Maybe you would prefer to answer the question; spermbank or starbucks?

Wow, you really seem to be out spoken against homosexuals

Usually that means you are gay yourself. That's ok, someday you'll step out of that closet and really come to grips with your homosexuality, and then you'll realize what you've been missing all these years. I'm sorry you are so hateful. :)

Oh no.

I am being called hateful by the perverted. What ever will I do? So much for free speech.

You can heal yourself. You do

You can heal yourself. You do not have to follow a sick lifestyle. Regardless of how this happenned - peer pressure, abusive parents, hormones not working correctly - you have a choice and tools to heal yourself.

If you don't want to that's fine, you are free to do what you want.

you're the bigot

Ron, Rand stand for human rights.. it's not a matter if you're gay, what race, what, sex.. it's about being a HUMAN.

how am i the bigot?

I did not compare straight marriage to Bestiality. Rand compared gay marriage in saying does it have to be human. He is the one who is sick not me.

I know Ron Paul is for human rights. He son is nothing but a gop Nazi bigot.. Rand is Not Ron at all. Ron was to GOOD. for that Nazi bigot party Rand belongs there

Ron says

he agrees with Rand 99%.

Ron was good as a messanger, but Rand is better politically.

Ron is a Republican, Rand is a Republican, I am a Republican and so is Justin Raimondo of antiwar.com who is homosexual.

When you identify yourself by your sexual orientation, and expect special rights, that institutions change to accomodate you, you become the bigot.


I am a Libertarian who happens to be gay. I think this is an insult to all that Referred gay marriages to bestiality.. Yes Rand dance. The dance to the gop music. Ron would Not dance to that Nazi music!

I really don't mean to be disrespectful

I frankly don't give a damn what your sexual oreintation is. That's your business. To me, when I see, "I am gay".. it means.. "MY SEXUAL ORIENTATION IS WHO I AM". I hope there's more to you than your sexual orientation.

As a Catholic, you will not be married in my Church. Marriage is a SACREMENT, not a secular ceremony. The state issues marriage licenses to homosexuals and Preists have couples sign state provided licenses, and they register the marriage with the Church. So Rand is saying, "You are not going to be married to a partner who you can not procreate with". You can "make LOVE", but you can not make babies, and marrriage is all about making babies in the Church. Ron dances the same dance as Rand on this issue.

The worst part is how we both get played by government. There are Churches desperate for money and would marry anyone in the name of love.. I have no problem with that. And that includes people marrying animals.. it's not my business unless it comes to MY Church. Catholic Church has plenty of homosexuals who have accepted that they will NEVER be married in the Church. So this isn't about homophobia or anyone wanting to control YOUR life, anymore than it's anti-religion or you trying to control my life, or the life of the religious.

We both have a common enemy, and that is the Muslim religion that burns our Churches and decapitates homosexuals.. so I hope that we can find a way to end terrorism together rather than fight each other while Muslims have 8 kids to Catholics 1.6 and you having none.

If I was a senator on glen

If I was a senator on glen beck show, and said some Catholics have too many kids and compared their marriage to bestiality. Would you be upset with me? I think you would. I know if I said something like that my boyfriend and my mom would slap me upside down the head. Ron Paul done dance the same dance as Rand. Ron never referred gay marriage to bestiality. Don't slander Ron.

I don't need to explain too you about my sexuality. I will say very little of my life is gay. I am too busy working for liberty. I ran for state rep twice and i am currently running for school director and township supervisor. I am endorsed by Liberty Candidates I don't care if the catholic church would marry me or not. The catholic church has no room to Jude me about being gay. At least i don't rape kids or protect the rapists like the catholic church.

I think Marriage is a private contract between two people, and the government needs TO STAY OUT OF IT.
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. I think it is funny how you lump All Muslims as terrorists. Would it be fair of me to say the Catholic church are terrorist to gays because did nothing to stop their priest raping little kids??

No, I would not be upset with you

I would believe that you don't have the facts straight if you were a Senator on TV saying the Catholic Church has too many kids (we are not having enough kids to sustain the Church past 2040 at the rate we are procreating) and have an agenda to destroy the Church, which many have tried, and they all fail (and that includes the gay lobby within MY Church) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQonsj2JzCA

I could care less about your sexuality. You want your sexuality to be my business. It's a bigger deal to you than me.

Your mistake is personalizing Rand's statement. Rand's point is YOU CAN NOT PROCREATE with your sexual partner anymore than a beastialitist, so to have a Chruch Marriage, which performs SACRAMENTS for the sake of heirs, is not understanding or respecting the Church. Why isn't a civil union that provides legal rights for you and your partner enough? Why do you think you need to come to my Church, FORCE us to change our belief system to accomodate you and your partner in the name of equality or freedom?

The Catholic Church could care less if you are homosexual. The Catholic Church performs marriage for sacrament and heirs, which you and your partner are unqualified by the Ctechism of the Catholic Church. Why not try getting married in a Mosque?

The Catholic Church was too slow to admit, and take action, on the rape of children (by homosexual pediophiles). It is a great SHAME on the Church no doubt. The Catholic Church has now paid hundreds of millions to the victims, many who remain in the Church, and changed it's policies to make repremandations. Anyone who works or volunteers with the Church MUST BE registered with the police and the diocese, NO EXCEPTIONS. A preist who is ACCUSED, not proven, not tried, just accused of impropriately touching anyone is grounds for them to be defrocked, and if there is a crime, it must be immediately reported and the Church will press charges. We have learned from our mistake, and rather than condemn those who who continue to damn us for past mistakes, have no respect for the actions we have made to correct our faults, we appreciate them for making us stronger in FAITH and safer for everyone.

To have a legal marriage, it is registered with the state, Catholic or not. Marriage is the business of the state, even for Catholics, whose marriage is a SECRAMENT for procreation.

I do not lump all Muslims as terrorists. There are radical Muslims and these are the terrorists even to other Muslims, one need look no further than Syria to see this.

No, it would not be fair for you to say the Catholic Church committed terrorism on gays by doing nothing to stop priests raping children. It would be more appropriate to say the Catholic Church was rightfully found quilty of abetting, condoning, and protecting homosexual pedophiles that criminally committed henious violent acts against children, parishioners and the moral values of the Church, and the hundreds of millions of dollars, the new laws, the defrocking, the criminal charges that were deserved, will NEVER be forgiven or forgotten by those who hate the Church. I don't know of any preist that blew themselves up in an act to murder innocents.

If you think homosexual pediphelia is limited to the Catholic Church, you would be grossly mistaken. I suggest that if this is a topic that interests you, you come to Church, or seek to expose the homosexual pediophiles in your own community.

no i don't want to get married period.

I said marriage is a private contract between 2 people and government should NOT have a say. You are the one who is taking it personally. I never said i want to get married in your church or any other. I don't hate the church but lets ask if the church preaches i am going to helll but with their priest were banging little boys and the church was protecting them for many years. No I don't hate the Catholic church but I don't have any respect for it either. Guess what my partner and i don't believe in gay marriage but you were too busy accusing me wanting to force my marriage on you and your rotten kid raping church to ask my opinion marriage vs civil unions. I hope you find peace and i don't need any church to bless me because i know the love of Christ.



Do what you want

The Catholic Church does not preach that you are going to hell. The Cathoic Church says your sexual orientation does not procreate thus you are unable to receive a sacrament for a marriage, IF you chose to marry.

You seem to be stuck on the "banging little boys". That's not very respectful of the little boys who were raped and VICIOUSLY HURT by the homosexual pediophiles that defiled the entire Church for their sins.

We can respect you and not expect you to return that respect. Such is those of the world.

I'm not accusing you of anything. I don't know you or your partner and hope you both find happiness and are good to each other.

I have found peace. Thank you.

As for your Libertarian announcement// I joined the LP in 76.. left in 92 and I'm not going back, not even as an infiltraitor.

DO WHAT YOU WANT. I'm happily standing with Rand.