10 votes

Rand Paul: I'm Not My Dad

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/29/rand-paul-i...

"Yet the undertones of Paul's full 23-minute speech to GOP activists at the state farmers' market were unmistakable: Rest assured, I'm not my father.

Paul is well-aware of his dad's reputation in the Palmetto State. Former Rep. Ron Paul barely competed in the 2012 primary here largely because his isolationist worldview was deemed a non-starter in a place home to eight military bases. In order to be competitive here three years from now, Rand knows he needs to vanquish Ron's long shadow."

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Michael Nystrom's picture

Bump

for discussion.

The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. - Alan Watts

I think rand is, for the most part, a waste of time

I don't think we will flip the script by out politicking them, I think the only way to do it is to get people to change their minds about politics.

I always think of this quote by Ron:
“Ideas are very important to the shaping of society. In fact, they are more powerful than bombings or armies or guns. And this is because ideas are capable of spreading without limit. They are behind all the choices we make. They can transform the world in a way that governments and armies cannot. Fighting for liberty with ideas makes more sense to me than fighting with guns or politics or political power. With ideas, we can make real change that lasts.”

Ron would take his time to educate people (effective IMO), Rand panders and tries to fight for liberty with politics and political power (ineffective IMO).

Rand has a big stage, I think he wastes his time.

Gilligan's picture

It's not "either-or", its "both-and"

Yes, the ideas are essential. But the politics are also necessary in our system to get the word out.

Google is government.

I can agree with that,

but rand doesn't "get the word out". He panders and himms and haws and in the end doesn't do a good job of spreading the idea's.

We don't gain ground by telling people they are right and reinforcing their flawed beliefs, we gain ground by explaining to them what is right - spreading the idea's.

tell me

Does the guy screaming about the banks on the street with a cardboard sign hold more power, or the guy who runs the fed?

Truth doesn't matter in our society, it's the position of society that delivers it. That's a sad truth lost on to many people here. Rand can do much more for the message as president than he could ever do as a senator, congressman, or businessman. That's just the reality of our situation.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

the guy who runs the fed...

but I don't think that justifies lying, and if you believe the truth doesn't matter, then we will have to agree to disagree because I think that the truth is the only thing that matters.

It's like this: give a man fish (pander) and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish (explain the idea) and he will eat for a lifetime.

I just think rand would be more effective, and what we need right now, isn't a politician. I try to explain it here:

http://www.dailypaul.com/239544/dear-rand-please-help-with-t...

Ok please don't even try to straw man me

or this conversation will be over.

I never said the truth didn't matter; don't put words in my mouth. I said the truth doesn't matter in our society. If it did Ron Paul would be the President. If it really mattered, Edward Snowden would be getting the Medal of Freedom, and the NSA, CIA, ATF, DHS would all be dismantled.

I think your delusion is that if we just teach enough people from the ground up things will change. Well history tells us otherwise and that fight is much longer, much harder, and much more laden with challenge than trying to influence people from the top down like the totalitarians have been successful in doing for thousands of years. Both can work, but with the way people are you will never have success with one and not the other.

It's like this: give a man fish (pander) and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish (explain the idea) and he will eat for a lifetime.

More like:

If you give a man to fish he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime, become the lead fisherman and teach all men to fish and you create a community free of hunger.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

I think you are making a mistake

on the definition of society.

I often hear "our society needs a safety net" when I object to SS, or "our society needs to take care of x" when I speak out against gov agency x. I am always quick to point out that there is a difference between "society" and "government". Government isn't society. (not implying that you believe this)

Had you said truth doesn't matter in government, I'd agree with you. In fact I'd reinforce that statement by pointing out that the very essence of government is theft (a very un-truthful act).

But you said that the truth doesn't matter in our society. I believe the truth matters, I believe you believe the truth matters, and your examples of Ron Paul and Edward Snowden, IMO, prove that the truth actually does matter. Are we not all part of society?

--

"become the lead fisherman and teach all men to fish"

it seems you are implying, assuming the "lead fisherman" you are referring to is the president, that the government is going to somehow teach us all and fix our problems. This, I think, is a plan that won't work. Our solutions won't come from government, our solutions come from changing ourselves, and changing peoples minds. The Jesus/Gandhi/RP model is much more effective than the totalitarian/rand model for actually making the changes we want.

This is my final reply to you

All you can do is misrepresent what I say, that's downright cowardly.

def.
"Society"- a group of people involved with each other through persistent relations.

Society does not care about the damn truth. Stop going off on wild tangents and address my points. If society cared about the truth, Edward Snowden would have the medal of freedom, and not be in exile. We would not be in this holy shit storm of a mess, if even HALF of the people in the country cared enough about the truth. People don't care, they don't care! They're happy as long as they can get by with their TV's and iPads. It's how totalitarianism forms, it's how republics die.

government is going to somehow teach us all and fix our problems.

That's a bullshit misrepresentation, that's tantamount to calling non interventionism, isolationism. If you can't counter argue my points than don't even bother to reply. You know damn well I was insinuating that the mass ignorance of the people in the world listen to "leaders" and the only way to change enough of their minds quickly is to remove the bad "leaders" and install people who can teach them.

For god sakes, the majority of libertarianism would still be a scattered mess if it wasn't for Ron Paul. That's the real reflection we all need to make, is WE the individualists needed a leader to help us. So how on Earth can you expect the ignorant sheep to move in the right direction without SOME top down influence?

The Jesus/Gandhi/RP model is much more effective than the totalitarian/rand model for actually making the changes we want.

Wow, I won't even address that.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

It's not a bullshit

It's not a bullshit representation. your saying (now correct me if i'm wrong), that Rand Paul is going to pander his way to presidency, and then decide to teach the ignorant masses, whom wouldn't have listened to him had he not been elected a "leader", about liberty and self-government... without being compromised or assassinated... this is what I am gathering...

This is dumb as shit. The only way this could work out to save the republic is if Rand continues his fall fully to the dark side and gains, along with his sith lord, almost total control of the galaxy, but then his son, whom has been smuggled away and raised in secrecy, learns the sacred art of jedi and returns to try to save lord rand and destroy the emperor siths tyrannical rule... but rands son is no match for the emperor and is about to be jedi electrocuted to death, when rand suddenly see's the light and realizes that pandering will never cause any meaningful change, then throw's evelyn rothschild into outerspace, and starts speaking the truth...

that just sounds like the work of fiction...

PS. If people don't care about the truth, why is there so much effort to keep us from it? Why do they marginalize anyone who comes close to speaking it? I believe people do care, but they are deceived and lied to prevent them from it. I don't blame the people, I blame the deceivers.

The Palmetto State

voted for Gingrich.

THAT alone...well, I just can't give words to it.

Whoever wrote the article should get his facts straight...Ron Paul is not an isolationist. Oh, wait, I forgot facts are a lost necessity when writing "news" in this day and age.

Never mind.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

Rand Paul 2016!

Rand Paul 2016!

“It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds”
-Sam Adams

RON PAUL 2016!!

RON PAUL 2016!!

I think Ron retired.

I think Ron retired.

Rand != Ron

The son is inferior to the father. The father wasn't great to begin with.

Ron was for me simply the best of a bad bunch.

Yah he sure isnt his dad

Ron Paul never endorsed the opposition against his beliefs, his father and his fathers supporters.

He sure is no Ron Paul. This aint no kingdom. So Rand HUGE FAIL!

Ron Paul never got in bed with Mitt Romney, or Mitch McConnel even tho hey had spys and traitors in his camp, including his own son, Rand.

sovereign

Ron Paul Supported GOP Incumbents In His Home State (Texas)

Rand is doing no different with McConnell in Kentucky. See this thread:
http://www.dailypaul.com/121785/ron-paul-promises-to-support...

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

Look I live in Galveston TX

I am a decades long Ron Paul supporter, How can you equate Ran Paul's endorsment of Mitt Romney against his own father, his fathers's votter base, and his father's principles to Ron Paul's endorsments throught the years.

Tricky and typical of skunks. McConnel is the same as NAME ONE OF THE PEOPLE Ron Paul endorsed that is the same, just one?

Discusting trickery, nonsense, and typical of somone who is moraly bankrupt. The only card you can play to defend you immoral position is to pretend its all good.

At least Rand Paul was bold enough to betray me to my face. Not with lies and trickery like you.

sovereign

I Wasn't Speaking To The Romney Endorsement

I was pointing out that the GOP, as a condition for continued membership in the party, requires elected representatives to endorse incumbents running for office in their home state.

That is what Ron Paul did with Lamar Smith, and what Rand Paul is doing with McConnell.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

I was speaking to

The Rand Paul endorsment of Mitt Romney just before the convention. Thats exactly what I have been talking about.

sovereign

rand only did that when it

rand only did that when it was certain his father had no chance of winning.

Oh thanks for telling me when its ok to betray me.

We will never know. Thats not accurate, exactly how can you say that. For sure after that betrayal it was a signal to all the enemies of liberty candidate RP to boldly continue with the cheating.

The entire process was fraud, polls, media, and electronic vote counts. The GOP cheated again and again. Now you say well it was lost anyway so its ok for Rand to betray me. You got to be kidding. Your attitude is exactly what keeps putting the entire elections in worse and worse shape. Is there anything you wont tollerate. Betrayal is not on your list aparantly. I waste my time with you Rand Paul lovers, you just want the son of Ron, like some kind of kingdom where the son will inherit the throne. Your welcome to Rand and what you will get. The same puppet master that controls Mitch McConnel and most every other sold out political puppet of the central bank of Zion.

sovereign

Okay, what "betrayal"? Rand

Okay, what "betrayal"? Rand promised to endorse the candidate, and by that point, it was essentially Romney.

you can say that again

February 4, 2013
LRC
Rand Paul: Every Government Worker in Uniform is a Hero
Posted by Ryan W. McMaken on February 4, 2013 10:04 PM

Following Ron Paul's truth-telling about the tragic outcomes that are sure to come from time spent in a military where rape, suicide, domestic abuse and general killing are widespread, Sen. Rand Paul, the reputed (by some) heir to leadership of the liberty movement, obliquely responded by declaring that “Chris Kyle was a hero like all Americans who don the uniform to defend our country," [Emphasis mine.]

Yes, every American soldier is a hero, just like the Bronze-Star-winning Timothy McVeigh and the Marine Lee Harvey Oswald. And don't forget all the heroes at Mai Lai.

"The Army," McVeigh said "taught him how to switch off his emotions."

Now, I'm not claiming that all or even most soldiers are like Timothy McVeigh, but to claim, as Rand Paul has done, that every soldier is a hero, shows a highly-questionable grasp of military history. Senator Paul shouldn't fear that his words will be examined for every possible meaning, as is the case with Ron Paul's tweets. No, as long as one errs on the side of untrammeled praise of the government in the form of its armed agents, then all is fine.

Rand is right.

HE IS NOT HIS DAD! Ron has morals to stand up for his convictions. Rand dances the dance and say what that Nazi gop wants. Rand truly belongs with that party. STOP CALLING RAND A LIBERTARIAN!! Libertarians stand for liberty. The only time Rand stands for liberty is when liberty is good for Rand politically!

I know!

Rand says the defense budget can/should be cut...just like the Nazi GOP wants!

And Rand says Snowden is virtuous...just like the Nazi GOP wants!

And Rand says pot smokers shouldn't be jailed...just like the Nazi GOP wants!

Rand truly belongs with that party, as you say!

Rand is a gop member.

Rand voted for 2013 NDAA
Rand turned on snowden
Rand referenced gay marriage to bestiality.
Rand said he not like his dad this post
Rand endorsed Romney when his dad was still a candidate.

Rand needs to stay in that s.h.i.t party, and stop pretending to be a LIBERTARIAN Republican.

Do you even know why he voted

Do you even know why he voted for the 2013 NDAA? Please educate yourself.

You're right!

Except that Rand:

Voted against the 2012 NDAA (which was *the* NDAA) http://www.ibtimes.com/ndaa-bill-how-did-your-senator-vote-3...

Did not turn on Snowden (he's been one of the few politicians to defend Snowden).

Did not reference gay marriage to bestiality (after an off-the-cuff remark, he clarified his libertarian position).

Ron says that he and Rand are in "99% agreement".

Rand endorsed Romney after Ron admitted the race was over.

Rand needs to stay in the GOP, so that, like Ron, his libertarian views have a platform.

Other than all that, you've nailed it!

Rand

is the son of Legendary Ron. They can't be that much different. Ron just wasn't afraid to say what he felt. Rand, the other hand is playing Politics. I bet if he was President, he would be just as good as Ron.