45 votes

George Zimmerman’s A Better Man Than I Thought

After a day of very solid cross confirmed testimony in the Zimmerman / Martin case, it turns out that in spite of the fact that Trayvon Martin was pounding the daylights out of Zimmerman's face and skull on a concrete surface, Zimmerman never went for his side arm until he realized that Martin noticed he was armed and appeared to go for the gun saying, "You're gonna die tonight" to Zimmerman.

Only at that point of life or death decision did Zimmerman grab his weapon and fire one shot into Trayvon's upper torso.

Zimmerman testified that he did not realize that he hit Martin... he assumed that when Martin said, "You got me". Martin meant he was going to stop assaulting Zimmerman as Martin leaned back off of Zimmerman's chest.

Zimmerman then testifies that he slipped out from Martin where he was pinned down and jumped on Martins back to restrain his hands to stop his attacker from executing any further blows.

Zimmerman tossed his gun to the side and held Martins arms down as Martin lay face down.

It seems to me that the average person who took a beating from a larger stronger attacker, would go for his weapon much sooner and would not have stopped firing until he was sure the attacker was profoundly incapacitated.

Most people in that situation would have emptied their magazine on the attacker to assure their own survival.

Based on testimony and evidence, George Zimmerman exercised extreme restraint in the use of deadly force. And the single spent, shell casing proves that restraint beyond a doubt.



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Can I hug you?

Because that was awesome.

That would be...

...invading Thimbleberrys personal space!;)

That is assuming that Travon Martin assaulted Zimmerman first...

... and he is not here to defend himself is he? How do we know that Zimmerman did not try to stop him physically? After all he was following Martin and he was armed. How do we know he didn't show him the gun?

Your argument totally ignores the fact that Trayvon martin was minding his own business. Your argument also assumes that Zimmerman is telling the truth. Trayvon Martin would be alive if not for the actions of a man who decided to initiate a confrontation because of his false assumptions. Mistake or not he is culpable.

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"The greatest mystery of all is truth." - Me, 2009

Zimmerman was

on the phone with dispatch. Listen to the dispatch tapes (the original dispatch tapes, not the ones doctored by the MSM). When Zimmerman hung up the phone, he said he was at his truck, and going to meet police at a pre-determined location. This is when Martin came out of somewhere and asked if Zimmerman had a problem.

This case isn't about a mistake, it's about self-defense, stand your ground.

IF zimmerman was in his truck

and martin confronted him unarmed, then at what point couldn't zimmerman have just driven away, but instead decided to exit the vehicle?

Zimmerman at every step chose to increase his own chances of being harmed. At each step that night zimmerman had the chance and ability to leave.

Ridiculous

Your argument is ridiculous, firstly because you are grasping at straws, and secondly , it doesn't matter!

You can not attack anyone in anyway, unless in self defence. And consider the facts -

1 Martin was shot dead

2 Zimmerman was bashed around the head

Those are the two acts of aggression, which one came first? Logic easily solves that!

So Zimmerman was bashed around the head (possibly feared for his life) and then shot Martin .

So who started what?

Your argument is with out logic.

Exactly ... and Trayvon Martin was standing his ground.

That's how I see it. Martin didn't know Zimmerman was acting as a quasi security guard. He never announced himself or his intentions.

If a stranger was following me in the dark for no reason I would be fearful for my safety. If I thought I was about to be mugged or worse I would fight if I felt cornered. That's called standing my ground.

Zimmerman started this whole mess.

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"The greatest mystery of all is truth." - Me, 2009

So you start beating on someone

Because you are scared, and that makes it right? I think not.

Why didn't Martin question him first? Why not run? Why start with aggression?

how do you know he didn't converse with zimmerman? How do you know he did? How do you know Martin didn't know Zimmerman was on neighbourhood watch? Your arguments are serially lacking in logic, especially your argument that following someone who you think looked suspicious, can make you culpable of murder.

Hw do you know with out a doubt that Zimmerman started the aggression? Can you prove that with evidence?

You are talking nonsense.

So you kill someone because you're getting you're ass kicked?

Is that the new standard for the use of mortal force?

Have you even considered this from Trayvon Martin's prospective?

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"The greatest mystery of all is truth." - Me, 2009

Getting your ass kicked? Way to spin, try, in fear of your life.

Yes I have, and I would not start attacking someone I didn't know. I would have kept walking home, or called the police. I would never attack someone unless i needed to defend my self, you need to prove that martin was in need of defending himself at the time zimmerman was attacked, can you do so?

And in the same vein, Have you thought about it from Zimmerman's point of view?

If I thought my life was in danger, and I would think my life was in danger if my head was coping a beating, I would have defended my self to the best of my abilities, I would not try to kill the person, simply incapacitate, but if that was the end result, the person who attacked me, in my (and also natural law's) opinion, would be at fault.

Exactly

If Zimmerman is so guilty as many seem to believe, why does the msn have to edit the call to make him look more so and then imply it was a race thing. Why call it a white guy vs a black guy, why is everyone being suckered in to a blatantly obvious attempt by the media to demonise and cause racial tensions, ie divide and conquer. Stop falling for it.

Why is this not a case of self defence? No honestly why isn't it?

It is a case of self-defense.

The defense waived the immunity of the Stand Your Ground statute.

Are you not making assumptions?

"totally ignores the fact that Trayvon martin was minding his own business. " That is a fact is it? I thought that is what this case is all about? How do we know this? And even if he was, how do we know that Martin didn't eventually attack Zimmerman?

Are you saying that, simply by following someone he thought was suspicious while on neighbourhood watch, makes him culpable for his death. Let's assume that Zimmerman is telling the truth about being attacked. How did he know that his suspicion and following of a person was going to cause him to be attacked, be in fear of his life, and then have to defend his life with fatal consequences.

Walking home from the store and talking to his girlfriend...

... seems like minding ones own business to me. There isn't any evidence that indicates Martin was committing any crime.

He's culpable because he initiated the confrontation which should never have happened to begin with.

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"The greatest mystery of all is truth." - Me, 2009

No evidence

What about Zimmerman's injuries, how did they occur?

How do you know he initiated the confrontation?

From what I have gathered.

Fact one - Zimmerman was attacked.

Fact two Martin was shot dead by Zimmerman.

Using logic, which of these occurred first? Or are you disputing that Martin attacked Zimmerman? And if you are what evidence do you have, and if you have none then you are assuming as much as anybody else here.

You say there is no evidence that Martin committed a crime, so where is the evidence showing that Zimmerman committed a crime? A man died, was it a crime, or self defence? Where is your evidence to back up your claims?

Hey you fronted the theory?

The theory about culpability is what i replied to, anyone care to explain it rather than simply vote down.

Because it sounds batshit crazy to me.

I feel sorry for...

...Trevon's parents and this whole thing is unfortunate, but I do think G.Z. should be set free from any charges. The more this trial goes on, the more it seems to prove he is innocent.

Ug...here too? I came to DP to get some sanity.

When Martin caught Zimmerman's eye, even though he was tall, Zimmerman saw him as a kid (his words).

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcrip...

"late teens" "don't know where this kid is"

Zimmerman sounded pretty cocky on the phone. Had a gun, feeling good. I haven't found any fight training for Martin but Zimmerman "had been involved with mixed martial arts several times a week."

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.h...

What makes anybody think he was scared? Not only wasn't he scared, he had an attitude. Think he showed any of that attitude in his face? The way he carried himself?

Zimmerman's telling stories.

I've been a metal head the better part of my life. I used to dress the part in my youth and was considered a juvenile delinquent and a devil worshiper for the kind of music I listened to. Perverted adults like to prey on teens like that because they think we deserve it. I've been followed and it's gotten a bit dodgy at times. What happened to Trayvon Martin could have happened to me. There's not a question in my mind that I'd have viewed Zimmerman as a threat.

If Zimmerman walks you might as well fire all the cops & just form neighborhood watch groups. We demand cops go through training for a reason, specifically THESE kinds of reasons. My dad taught me that REAL men don't pull a gun unless somebody draws on them first. PERIOD. I hope the kid got some licks in.

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.” - Mark Twain

Yet,

Zimmerman had taken martial art classes and was carrying a gun, and a 17 year old got the better of him. Zimmerman has documented injuries, not Martin.

Would you have beat the crap out of someone you suspected was following you?

"Would you have beat the crap

"Would you have beat the crap out of someone you suspected was following you?"

If I saw they were armed, they pursued me, had not yet drawn the weapon, I were guilty of no crimes, and they were refusing to retreat, you better damn well believe it.

Where are you getting your details?

It seems like some people on here are getting their details from CNN/MSNBC. I have been watching the testimony of multiple people in the case and as far as I can tell from the details presented George Zimmerman was not stalking Trayvon Martin. He noticed an individual acting suspiciously from his vehicle as he drove to the grocery store and decided to notify the police. He kept an eye on his location from his vehicle and was at one time circled by Trayvon. He rolled up his window to AVOID confrontation. He exited his vehicle not to follow Trayvon but to get the dispatcher the name of the street he was on. This is his signed statement which has not been refuted. After identifying the street he was on he made an attempt to get back to his vehicle but was confronted by Trayvon. This is when Trayvon attacked George Zimmerman. Fortunately none of the impacts George Zimmerman's head went through with the concrete sidewalk were fatal.

Calling George Zimmerman a crazy vigilante or anything else of the sort is also off base. He started taking an active role in protecting the community when a neighbor's house was broken into while the person was at home. This neighborhood was not a safe haven from crime but a breeding ground. George Zimmerman had a history of notifying the police and not interfering or "taking matters into his own hands".

Is the story believable?

Look at the lie his wife and he told the Court about their financial position.

Zimmerman is clearly paranoid. Look at his history of police reports; everyone is suspicious to him.

Look at his hero complex; MacGruff the Crime Dog, you might say.

I hardly think someone who decides someone else is a crime suspect and then sets up a situation where he is "forced" to kill is even close to restrained. How do you know Martin didn't get the message from Zimmerman that his own life was in danger and he fought to save his own life?

When Zimmerman was out of the car looking for Martin, still on the phone with the police, you can hear him chamber a round in his KelTec 9. Anyone familiar with guns will recognize the sound. Looks to me like he was on the hunt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NU0UeiNba8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abt2dqIdpaU

We know this started with Zimmerman's behavior toward Martin, and ended with Martin's death. If Zimmerman is honorable, perhaps he could show it by ending his own life now.

If Martin had beaten Zimmerman to death, what do you think would have been the legal consequences?

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

Gun jammed.

I heard that his Keltec PF-9 jammed after the first round was fired. But, you're right. He did show, probably unwise, restraint. By unwise, I mean that if you truly feel someone is going to attack you, you should use your weapon immediately, you may not have another chance.

GZ the neighborhood neocon

Great point. George Z would make Rudy Giuliani proud.

‘Each individual is separated from others by a "taboo of personal isolation"...this "narcissism of minor differences"'
--Sigmund Freud

A not guilty verdict for self

A not guilty verdict for self defense will make for a more polite society. People will think twice before randomly beating someone up.

That racist P.O.S. Sean Hannity intervied Zimmerman...

...and they used it in the trial.

EF that Ron Paul-hating bastard Hannity.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

BREAKING NEWS: The George

BREAKING NEWS:
The George Zimmerman defense is doing the "happy dance" right now as Angela Corey, Florida’s state attorney and the prosecutor against Zimmerman, has been indicted by a citizens’ grand jury for allegedly falsifying the warrant and complaint that led to Zimmerman being charged with the murder of Trayvon Martin.

The indictment accuses Corey of allegedly withholding photographs of Zimmerman’s head after the incident. Also, Corey allegedly falsely signed an arrest warrant under oath without including the pictures as evidence.

The indictment demonstrates just how easily politics and the unethical government element can weasel into our courtrooms.

CITIZEN'S Grand Jury

Doesn't mean didly dick. Just some guys with a website.

Stop spreading lies, Defense Attorney has NOT been indicted.

It seems Zimmerman was an interventionist.

It's the same thing with our foreign policy where we have to go poking our nose into things which are not our business or endangering our safety and then when someone fights back they're the bad guy.

None of us were there but one thing we do know is that the operator told Zimmerman NOT to keep following Martin.

Unless Martin was commiting a crime when Zimmerman first happened upon him, then why did Zimmerman approach Martin at all?

Don't people have the right to walk in a neighborhood?

It sounds to me like Zimmerman was looking for a fight and he got one - just like the U.S. does with foreign nations.

You might say Zimmerman got "Benghazied" - but in his case he lived to tell about it.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Very well put...

... I concur sir.

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"The greatest mystery of all is truth." - Me, 2009