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Related to Silver and Gold: ETF, or Physical PMs, what do you think and why?

Have been waiting to buy precious metals for a while now and i think the time is close.

I am learning that physical gold and silver is not an investment, more of a hedge. But the idea of mining stocks that pay dividends is appealing to my mind and wallet. Sure to have a bit in my possession is smart, i will not deny that, but how much should i put into mining stocks vs physically hold.

What sites do you guys use?

What techniques do you use once you own pms, storing and selling?

Do you buy bars, coins, bullion or minted U.S silver eagles or Canadian maples?

What sites to use to watch mining stocks?

And for jokes whats is the bottom silver price you expect to see ;) thx guys and gals have a great weekend.

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As the paper price drops... the commodity disappears! Note this

article from XINHUA NEWS AGENCY:

Gold import picks up despite price decline: expert
DUBAI, Jul 06, 2013 (Xinhua via COMTEX) --

Although the price of gold declined further at the start of July, gold imports from China and India and central bank purchases have been picking up, said Gerhard Schubert, the head of precious metals at bank Emirates NBD.

Gold closed on Friday down by 11 U.S. dollars week on week at 1, 224 dollars per troy ounce. "The gold price has, again, finished the week on a bearish footing," said Schubert in his weekly assessment of global markets. "Gold reacted to better unemployment numbers and strengthening US economic data." However, "Chinese gold imports are still very much on record pace and fresh purchases from India are also documented," added Schubert who did not elaborate whether he expected the fall of the price of the yellow metal to be halted or not...

Your question is perfect for data mining!

Anyone who answers to any degree of specificity will be populating the list of who, what, where, why, and when, found in NSA's data base for any interested governmental agency!

Do your own research and you will be rewarded!

No.7's picture

I use silver and gold as a savings account

I also think it will be the 'time to buy' until it isn't. I put some money into metals every week and I buy larger gold coins or rolls of silver when I have a surplus of currency in my bank account. I buy most silver locally and through APMEX on eBay when APMEX has the better price.

I've been interested in stocks but I'm concerned about having to go through a broker. For now I'm sticking to metals which I hope to sell one day to start my own business or farm.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

So many options with different levels of risk.

Stocks are stocks. Mining stocks have lagged the precious metals for a long time now. They have political risk, company risk, interest rate risk.

ETP's have varing degrees of risk. Is the ETF a physical holder or just a tracking product? There is also a clear tracking of ownership.

The safest method is US coinage purchased for cash in small quantities at a coin shop in a city large enough that nobody can remember who bought it.

US coinage is much less likely to be confiscated than bars or foreign coinage based on history. Silver is less likely to be confiscated than gold.

Purchasing PM's whether online or in person using traceable payments puts you at much greater risk of confiscation. (PayPal, Bitcoin, CC, debit card, personal check)

phxarcher87, I've written a book on gold and silver

phxarcher87, I've written a book on gold and silver. Click on my name and email me and I'll send you a free pdf version that can answer all your questions.

I was a financial advisor for 20 years before starting my own precious metals company.

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

saving are savings. Investments are investments.

i don't like to invest since i am chicken and understand the house always wins.(some get lucky of course)i like to be consistent and the markets show otherwise.

therefore saving my hard working money fits me best. i buy physical silver monthly(also as a hobby playing with my coins and bars as well as history and learning geography) and will be sitting on it for the next 20 to 30 years. of course i can always cash some in when a project occurs.


You are right gold and silver should not be viewed as

investments but there are reasons to own both

Mining shares are an investment and are cheap now

Please subscribe to

Not an investment?

Google defines an investment as "A thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future."

I really dont see a way to say purchasing PMs is not an investment. How do you define the difference between hedge and investment? People invest in different things as hedges against various other things. Just because something does not pay a dividend does not mean it is not an investment.

PM stocks are more of a gamble in my opinion. Physical metal is not going away. but companies can go away. strikes, nationalization, poor management. Just look at the current situation, mines are going out of business because gold has fallen below the marginal cost of production. if you own physical metal you are fine, you have some paper losses if you bought in the last two years but that is all. If you are in mining stocks you could lose everything.

Those who bought physical gold in 2007 are sitting on large gains even despite the price drop. Many gold stocks are down 50% from 2007 levels. In the past you likely always come out ahead with physical. What happens in the future is anyones guess. perhaps the stock market holds together. perhaps people who time pm stocks become fabulously wealthy? or perhaps all digital based computer traded assets become worthless. perhaps governments nationalize brokerage accounts or raise capital gains to 60%? Most mining companies have majority ownership by large commercial banks so look out.

My advice: dont get sucked into get rich easy mentality. dont invest any more in any equities than you would comfortably care to lose.

Look at hundred year charts for commodities.

An investment is something bought when undervalued and sold when over valued.

Storing fiat money whose supply has grown on average 7.6% per year for 100 years is sure to lose value.

In 1913 the silver Dollar was worth a Dollar Today it is worth $14.57 in 2013 Dollars.

In 1913 and ounce of Gold was worth $20 Dollars. Today it is worth $1182 in 2013 Dollars. Nearly 60 times what is was worth in 1913.

The Gold supply was outpaced by the dollar supply.

For One hundred years the Gold:Silver ratio has been
47±6 it now stands at 64.69

Pricing sound money with sound money produces unsound results created by an endless supply of fiat dollars.

The market tends to seek fair value. Do Fiat dollars expose fair value?

Free includes debt-free!

Banks are holding $2 Trillion in excess reserves.

With that they are able to cover trillions in margin calls, which is sufficient to drive prices counter to market forces.

Free includes debt-free!

Buy physical metal and a great safe to store it.

Gold could go as low as $1075-$1000, but it may have already made its low. Silver just tracks gold with greater volatility (bigger moves up and down). Either way starting to dollar cost average into both silver and gold over the next 3-6 months is very smart. I would focus on government minted coins. They are more difficult to counterfeit with tungsten than are bars. I would buy from various government mints: South Africa, US, Canada, etc.... The best way to buy is from a local coin or metals dealer and do all transactions in cash. The issue now is the difficulty in finding any metal that is not recently mined due to the significant drop in price, no one wants to sell at a loss. To buy newly mined/minted metal you will probably have to find a good online dealer.

The miners will be more volatile than gold and provide leverage on the upside. You have to be very careful though. Some countries may nationalize their miners leavening you with a 100% loss and other miners may make bad investment and business decisions. One of the issues with all miners is the cost of business. As oil increase so does the cost to mine, as more gold and silver are pulled out of the ground then the cost increases. You need to do solid research and put significantly less in the miners than you have in the physical metal if you choose to invest in them. Your biggest issue would be counter party risk. This is the risk that your broker "loses" your money (MF Global). To watch the miners just use your brokers charts.

Gold and silver are not and investment and are not a hedge they a simply the safest way to store the fruits of your labor for the long run.