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Adam Kokesh debates Alex Jones

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good stuff

the goal is a voluntaryist Anarcho-capitalist society based around the NAP with only peaceful voluntary interactions. to insure a secure orderly transition the first goal should be a minarchist form of government. Minarchist argue for fire departments, prisons, courts, military and a small constitutional form of government.

ancaps argue minarchism violates the non-aggression principle NAP which it can and/or technically does.

so minarchism first then ancap voluntaryism.

i like adams plan i just think it may go too far too fast. it would be irresponsible to disband the military etc overnight.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

i thot this was the interview from a month ago

..it's new however..

Adam won this argument.

Adam won this argument. Stripping power from the federal government and returning that power to the lowest levels is the only hope for the United States. Naturally, corruption will then focus on governments at the state level and below as it was originally in our nation's history. At least the disease of corruption will have to metastasize over many counties and states to influence the whole nation.

Link and quote


Second, federalism permits the states to operate as laboratories of democracy-to experiment with various policies and Programs. For example, if Tennessee wanted to provide a state-run health system for its citizens, the other 49 states could observe the effects of this venture on Tennessee's economy, the quality of care provided, and the overall cost of health care. If the plan proved to be efficacious other states might choose to emulate it, or adopt a plan taking into account any problems surfacing in Tennessee. If the plan proved to be a disastrous intervention, the other 49 could decide to leave the provision of medical care to the private sector. With national plans and programs, the national officials simply roll the dice for all 284 million people of the United States and hope they get things right.

Experimentation in policymaking also encourages a healthy competition among units of government and allows the people to vote with their feet should they find a law of policy detrimental to their interests. Using again the state-run health system as an example, if a citizen of Tennessee was unhappy with Tennessee's meddling with the provisions of health care, the citizen could move to a neighboring state. Reallocation to a state like North Carolina, with a similar culture and climate, would not be a dramatic shift and would be a viable option. Moreover, if enough citizens exercised this option, Tennessee would be pressured to abandon its foray into socialized medicine, or else lose much of its tax base. To escape a national health system, a citizen would have to emigrate to a foreign country, an option far less appealing and less likely to be exercised than moving to a neighboring state. Without competition from other units of government,the national government would have much less incentive than Tennessee would to modify the objectionable policy. Clearly, the absence of experimentation and competition hampers the creation of effective programs and makes the modification of failed national programs less likely.

The Monopoly Power is huge because all the States pay into it as the States help enforce the Direct Tax, or Extortion, known as The FED, and The IRS, which is also a Hidden Tax added to, or accelerating, the Direct Extortion Fee, as by mathematical Exponent, the Fraud bring one Tax to a higher power.

And the fools are led to believe it to be a good investment with ample returns of profits.

Until the goose can't lay any more golden eggs.

Then the rats each each other.

So...isolating that type of destructive scenario into one "Failed State" which can be understood from another angle, is better, or worse than applying that "Failed State" to the whole Country, or the whole Globe?

Adam Kokesh offers an estimate of having insufficient numbers to accomplish the task of deterrence.

That is how I take his words.

Sufficient numbers working cooperatively, agreeably, in voluntary association, instead of rats eating rats on cue, just following orders, can, proven, can, deter criminals, by making crime unaffordable.


Not conspiracy theory.

Not utopian dreams.



Later in the discussion Adam turns to the meaning of words, while Alex appears to question that meaning.

What is Federalism?

Here is a sticky point.

If Alex Jones defines the meaning of Federalism according to the words published by Alexander Hamilton, then there is a problem, since Alexander Hamilton was a very well paid liar.

If Alex Jones defines the meaning of Federalism according to Patrick Henry, or George Mason, who were labeled as Anti-Federalists by the Nationalists who were exemplified by Alexander Hamilton, then that is all together different, and that would be completely in-line with voluntary association, Free Markets of Government, and therefore Free Markets of Money, and therefore Free Markets of everything.

So...which is it?

Federalism is a lie covering up Monopoly Union of Force where the Criminals dictate that what they do is legal and what anyone else does is illegal, and therefore anyone making anything worth stealing is thereby stolen so as to afford more power to the thieves and less power of defense to the victims.

Federalism is, in fact, the working design of Free Markets in Government.

You tell me, please. I don't get to discuss such things with anyone, let alone an Alex Jones, an Adam Kokesh, or a Noam Chomsky.



Whenever I hear AJ say "we're winning"

I start to wonder if he's playing with a full deck.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Same thing I have said

It won't change without demand, and will change with violence. That violence most likely being against our movement, but non the less, violence.

Adam is right, you have got to civilly disobey before ANYTHING will change. I applaud him.

Finally after ten years!

Someone with a bigger megaphone then me is saying it……almost. Which way do you want to go towards an even bigger government (possibly globally) or towards less government? The thing he didn’t say was to NULLIFY THE CONSTITUTION AND RETURN TO THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION OUR FIRST TRUE REPUBLIC. Easily done and only legal and non-violent way is to capture 38 states house and add one final amendment to the constitution to nullify itself!

If we followed

the Constitution we would have less federal government. The problem is we don't use gold as mandated, which would put the federal govt. on a real diet. You'll always have corruption, but when people feel policy in their pockets they get involved, so you can't stray too far. Not having sound money masks that.

Without having even a bare bones federal government how do you handle national security or states warring between themselves?

The whole reason for a confederation

Is to handle disputes…..and to make sure they don’t turn into wars. National security is handed by state militia which had, along with a newly formed national army defeated the greatest power in the world. You do know that the second amendment was to keep from having a national army….right…..it’s not about your right to bear arms. Your right is only granted in the context of a well regulated militia.

Sooner or later you will have to make a decision…….do I want liberty or government, the more government there is……the less liberty you will have, therefore we should do away with the USG because

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Don’t take this decision lightly…..I didn’t

Giving Congress the right to tax and borrow is a mistake

They have never ever, not for a single session been responsible with the people's money or wealth.

Congress has been nothing but the failure from the beginning.

If there were real problems instead of media manufactured problems, people will volunteer to protect their own property and their neighbors.

The American Revolution was corrupted by the foreign monies John Adams borrowed.

Free includes debt-free!

Our little liberty movement

Our little liberty movement seems to suffer from arrogance and almost a tunnel vision that keeps us divided. This demand that "we" do everything "my way or the highway" seems to hurt us. And even in me saying this, you have to agree with me or you're not for liberty!! lol j/k

In all seriousness, maybe we could use a bit more humility and even relaxed humor. Some of us enjoy flexing our philosophical muscles amongst even friends.

haha, yeah

also this:


“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

Adam who?


Not funny

Most unoriginal comment

Notice how with Adam it is

Notice how with Adam it is all about himself and his grand idea and has nothing to do with realistically looking at where we are as a movement.

Ventura 2012

Adam makes a lot of great points but...

unfortunately I not think as a society we are ready for the type of revolution he is envisioning, founding fathers said only a just and moral people could govern themselves and we are far from that... I am afraid if a revolution like he is speaking about was attempted it would be a disaster... I agree with Alex to keep the course of waking folks up intellectualy, changing the minds of younger generation is really where the truth movement is winning the battle

I'm pretty sure Adam was

I'm pretty sure Adam was agreeing with Alex about continuing the education process. That march is just a march, it's not a physical revolution lol. When Kokesh says "overthrow the government" he means moving away from the government, not a militant takeover.

Right now is the best time to have this debate because people are getting fed up with the government. These marches and statements have people talking about it and that is good.. It's getting them away from the thought that all they can do is vote for people that they don't even know. And even though I don't care for Rand, they will not let him in office in 2016, if he plans to do just a fraction of what he has already said he would... It will be Hillary or Rubio.. Voting is a gigantic waste of yours and my time.

Adam read Alinsky?

Alinsky's tactics were often unorthodox. In Rules for Radicals Alinsky wrote, "[t]he job of the organizer is to maneuver and bait the establishment so that it will publicly attack him as a 'dangerous enemy.'" According to Alinsky, "the hysterical instant reaction of the establishment [will] not only validate [the organizer's] credentials of competency but also ensure automatic popular invitation."[

Rules for Radicals ain't just for commies

It's good useable stuff. If Adam did read and employ some of it, I may have a speck of respect for him. As it stands, not so much.