-49 votes

UPDATED: Should Greenwald Just Stop?

The ongoing disclosures of how the NSA and “partner” companies have been betraying the privacy of the American people are interesting, for sure. But it seems to me, that adding a lot of detail which does not appear to be creating any additional units of resolve on the part of those who could do anything to actually do something, is just so much embarrassment of riches.

The most important disclosure (the scope and constitutional violation) being out there already, what point is there for Greenwald to continue the revelations? For the draw value?

Has the window for change already closed b/c Americans have not by now demonstrated mass outrage and demanded that heads roll? My own sense is, yes. The fuckers are getting away with it, all the while directing the dumbed down public to the Snowden puppet show.

Someone, please tell us. What’s the point of Greenwald continuing to publish more? Is there something coming that would actually be more compelling than what’s already known (and ignored)?

UPDATE: For the many who are missing the main point, please research the "primacy principle" of making an impression. The FIRST STIMULUS is the one that makes the biggest impression. If the initial reporting about this issue did not get action, what hope for the consequent efforts, which are less impressive? We know that our so-called representatives have not done a damn thing, other than call Snowden a traitor.

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Please explain - how is Greenwald committing a felony?

Please explain.

Because

Greenwald studied constitutioonal law, was an attorney, had issues with America and moved to Brazil.

Therefore, Greenwald KNEW when he received CLASSIFIED INFORMATION the proper thing to do, would be to return that information and report where he got it.

Instead.. he reported it through a Brittish paper.

Exposing Classified Information is a felony.

wrong

It's not a crime to disclose classified information. It's a crime only if you have clearance. This is the USA, not Israel.

btw... how did you get to Israel when you needed donations just to get a few hours from your home to a GOP convention?

au contraire

Accepting classifed documents without a clearance is criminal, some call it treason.

I'm not in Israel.. MY DREAM is to go to Israel.. Ever since I've been seeing the awesome things Israel is doing with agriculture, technology, engineering, the arts, the archelogical digs, business opportunities.. amazing stuff! .. I want to go on several tours.. I want to build a home for a Palestinian and see if I can help a Palestinian get a scholarship, volunteer for the IDF, because being Pro-Israel does not mean being anti-Palestine. I believe PEACE is going to take a two state solution and I hope to be part of that solution one day, in a small way.

Be very careful if you travel to Israel

Do not wear shorts, or short sleeved shirts or blouses or tank tops, or skirts above the ankle, or pants or jeans.

Depending on the area you are in such as W. Jerusalem, you may be spat upon, assaulted or even stoned. While we would call that discrimination, there it is called roughly 'respecting the religious community'.

This applies to both the more religious Jewish and Muslim communities.

Don't necessarily be offended, think "when in Rome, do as the Romans": after all it is a sovereign country free to do as it pleases.

If you are using transit, you will be expected to ride at or near the back of the bus/shuttle.

Watch who you associate with, and definitely do not piss off anyone in a position of authority. The government of Israel is very paranoid, for obvious reasons.

Don't move there without visiting a few times first. Make sure you are comfortable there before doing so.

And for G_d's sake DO NOT talk Libertarianism or two-state solution politics when you are there. Great way to get blacklisted.

Oh Gawd.. me not piss anyone off?

Thank you jungleboogie!!!

I've noticed that Tele-Aviv is very free, but elsewhere, it seems women wears pants under their skirts (I happen to do that from my dead head days, and it's always on the cool side here, long skirts).

You think I might get used to paranoid people hanging around the DP community?

I would not move there unless like you said, I had visited a few times, and met people who were like family I would bleed for.

I think the one thing that could possibly be my saving grace is my love of food.. it seems Israelis LOVE food (who doesn't, I know). And so far I have learned that when I go to order street food, do not bother to say, "Hi". Simply say, FALAFEL! Don't smile.. just look really hungry.

When I was in L.A. I used to shop at ELAT's, where they speak Hebrew and Yiddish but most the writting is Arabic.. I learned there, to not be afraid to go up and take what one wants from the bins.. don't wait, don't be polite, don't look like an American who is a touist, just do business. I miss their lavosh.

THANK YOU for the suggestions.. I'll take all I can get. I think I might have to get a Hebrew/English typewritter.. my friend says that my English sucks and Hebrew may be a better language for me anyways..

Beit house. Really, Israel is facinating, I'm glad I found it.

Know what else? I had this idea.. I wonder of I can plant redwood trees? I would like to plant a circle of 6 seedlings in the star of David.. need to find a Moshav that's interested.

there's programs

that would help you get there.

but you're wrong about classified docs and the some who call it treason are also wrong

I've been searching for programs

I figure it's going to take me a few years to get my chips lined up to go and live my dream..

Well, I like what my sources have to say about what Snowjob and Greenball did, Alan Dershowitz for one.

Who are your sources?

you're over thinking it

just f'in go.

but what's with this snowjob stuff? why do you not care about being watched?

I want it to be a experience, not a trip

Snowjob stuff? Because to me he's an inside job.

He didn't take money, he didn't murder anyone.. why the Hell did Greenball even care? And why Greenball? Snowjob was a Ron Paul supporter and he goes to Greenball? Why not Judge Nap?

Why do I not care about being watched? Because there's NOTHING to see.

They can watch me on DP all day.. geesh!

Maybe they can help wash dishes at the soup kitchen.

why did greenwald care?

Um... because all our base are belong to NSA

you are not dumb

I know you kKNOW better.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0tPGk-y5dY look at how old that YouTube is

You gotta KNOW.. our phones, our GPS, or frigging appliances.. all have rfids..

facebook, emails..

The real question is.. with ALL these tracking devices, why they can't find people?

No

The question is why do they have all these tracking devices.

paperless society?

Because the dumbing down, they can not depend on people to keep records and need to keep records for them?

I don't know.

But I do know, tracking devices are here to stay and we either adapt and use them for our benefit, or we don't adapt and become victims enabling them use to use the tracking devices for their benefit.

dumbed down?

Do you know how much brain power it takes to get rid of all that paper? Paperless is awesome! My office doesn't even own a copier. :)

I don't accept that I have to be followed, watched and monitored by spies just to have cool electronic shit.

No. How much?

Paperless may be awesome, but isn't it why there are tracking devices?

I would think that those who have the brainpower (and that's not me) have the ability to emancipate themselves from the nanny tracking state.

I don't have much electronic shit but I do have a copier because I write letters, send cards.. the electronic thing is a little cold for me.. a HAPPY BIRTHDAY by email is not the same as a card with a nice letter.. and since I am not computer compatible, seems a crash can hurt pretty bad..

But for those who have the brainpower, seems it's a no brainer to be able to emancipate oneself.. where for the dummies like me.. I don't really care if they track me.. it's not like what I'm doing day to day has any need to be secret.

Now this said, don't get me wrong.. I am not nieve that there are people who hurt innocent people with tracking devices, but I am not going to go about my life in paranoid state over it.

If thre's an evil person who is personally tracking me to hurt me, I hope they will fail.. but I don't see what I can really do about that.. before tracking devices there was stalking..

As much as the world changes, it seems it really doesn't change much.

Not tracking because of paperless

We have tracking because we have an overzealous intelligence community who wants to know everything about everyone.

You can say, "Im not doing anything bad so I have nothing to hide" but it's not up to you with what they consider bad. What happens when simply being a Ron Paul supporter is grounds for arrest? Look at Muslim Brotherhood supporters in Egypt and how they got arrested.

Do you honestly want to leave judgment calls of what's bad in the hands of spies?

And yes, we can hide from the nanny state but that takes a lot of effort and some money. I have the skills needed. Few people do relatively speaking. So yeah, I can secure my phone calls but what happens when my friend doesn't understand the need for security and he leaks his encryption key by accident?

I do not want to live at the whim of an all powerful, all knowing nanny state. I'm king of my castle and they should get the f out of my life.

If all I talk about are roses and sunshine, I don't care. It's none of their business.

I mean, why don't I just post everything I say and do online for the whole world to read?

And this whole 'I have nothing to hide so it's cool' argument is really dumb for another reason. If the NSA and FBI are so innocent in all of this, why are they hiding?

And it's actually amusing to hear a Jew defend a secret police state.... I remember a certain country that you really want to visit being founded because of another secret police state that targeted people who thought they should have nothing to hide... until someone decided they did.

I don't agree

I think many good things become corrupt, expecially when government gets involved, or any lessor organization that attempts to control people.

And yes; I realize that my simply being a Ron Paul supporter may be grounds for the corrupt to arrest me. That is the chance I take by being an open Ron Paul supporter.

It's not up to me, and I have few remedies, to control how others, especially with the power of FORCE, judge me. The best I can do is be involved politically (where indiviuals have attacked me personally, vandalized my property for being a Ron Paul supporter). I also go to jury duty calls, and willing to participate in my community with respect that not everone here is going to appreciate me.. matter of fact,, that said, I think I would have more to fear from the faceless community on DP than my own community that knows me, knows my works, and appears to appreciate it.

If "they" want to get me, they will, and I do not expect there is anyone out there who will rescue me, protect me, save me.

I said that I understand the, "I have nothing to hide", is nieve. Privacy is important and I believe the first line of self defense, but to spend my life trying to hide, is to me, not a life.

You know, I realize that when I go to town to shop, my picture is taken hundreds of times. I realize that when I use plastic, or go to a bank, or use electronic banking, I'm being tracked. People reading my posts on DP are tracking me. So being tracked is part of my life I accept. I really don't think or believe the world cares about ME so much that what I do, or fail to do, that is not illegal is an issue.

That's what gets me about snowjob.. you see Ron Paul couldn't get the time of day. Snowjob is said to be a Ron Paul supporter, but he doesn't go to any of Ron Paul's connections like The Judge, he goes to a constitutional attorney known to have issues with America, doesn't live in America, and goes to the Brittish press... and now snowjob is not being treated well at all.. his so called supporters are USING him for their own exposure.. he apparently hasn't had a shower or a new shirt.. he's looking like he was set up.

It's remarkable to me that Americans didn't understand what the Patriot Acts did.. this is news? NSA is news?

Some say "Well it's waking the world up!" I don't agree. It's entire motive is to light a fire of hate of America by America because to lose America, Americans must be willing.. like the idiots for Islam brotherhood who are now under a marshall law overseen by the UN.

If global government is what you want.. you'll get it.. and if you think that is going to stop spying, I believe you are not thinking correctly. Spying is not new and will not ever end. Nor is, or will, corruption. All that said, I do believe it is better to always look and live on the bright side.

Ok...

What if they don't want to arrest you? What if they decide they can blackmail you to turn as an informant? If not you, what if it's someone in your local activist groups? They could do a lot of damage that way. Hell, they probably are already.

Information is power and the NSA has all the information.

The truth is

They do not need NSA to arrest me and charge me with crimes I have not committed to my knowledge.

I can admit, I have no idea, what they would blackmail me on, nor do I want to find out. Still I don't believe NSA is going to help them any better than they can do without the help of NSA.

The corrupt in power do not need NSA to arrest me on false charges, toss me into indefinate detention and force me to work until I die in a labor camp, or charge me with a crime I did not commit and run me through a court that condemns me to death.

Someone on a local activist group does not need NSA to help them undo me. I would hope that the NSA would be able to prove otherwise to a corruption that mobilized to undo me.

I would hope, but I do not believe, the NSA records on me would help me if someone were to lie about me and have me arrested and condemned.

Information is power, but lies and corrption are also power, and life goes on anyway.

Easy

Volunteer to work on a Kibbutz or Moshav.

Just duck & cover when you hear the occasional incoming Hezbollah Scud missle...

"One resists the invasion of armies; one does not resist the invasion of ideas" Victor Hugo

I've been studying that too

and it's not so easy.. seems easier said than done.. after all, I still have to get there, and that is not inexpensive from CA (and I would have to have funds to do archilogical digs, going to museums, tours, zoo, nature reserves. street foods, personal needs.

I don't know how well I would fit into a Kibbutz.. if I was with the right Kibbutz I think it would be magic, but if I was not.. it may be a hell.

It seems to me that Israel calls people.. real or imagined, and unless one is a tourist.. spending money freely.. happy, they have a wonderful time the whole time.

What worries me about the Moshav is that some are illegal and seem to be race eccentric.. a refuge for people from certain places.

Also, it seems that if you have an interest, like do, in many things beyond a tour, then Israel makes you bleed, maybe just a little, but it really seems to me that no one stays in Israel for long with out some kind of suffering.. so if it's a scud.. then I would have definately earned my place.. but if it's not a scud.. I have to think.. "what price am I willing to pay?" because I don't expect it to be all gum drops and peppermints.

No risk, no reward

I have a friend who worked on a Kibbutz as an agricultural specialist for 2 years. Said it was a great experience.

If you want to do it, you'll do it. And... you will experience the good and the bad. The outside view of anywhere can be selectively "rosy".

"One resists the invasion of armies; one does not resist the invasion of ideas" Victor Hugo

Wise words

THANK YOU!

Im done..

defending you.

Your ignorance is on full display. These two men raised the alarm to alert us to what our government is doing, while our govt is lying about it.

Enjoy the Alex Jones koolaid of the week.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

Alex who?

I don't watch Alex Jones.

These two men didn't tell us anything those who were awake didn't know whern the Patriot Acts were passed. What these men have done is attack America for a NWO.

Government has no need to lie about spying. When didn't America SPY?

Glad you're awake. FREAK OUT like that's gonna stop the spying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVZh4WcdC3s

What Snowden did was monumental!

As I posted below . . .

So, did Snowden reveal anything monumental? YES! There were a few relatively well informed people who thought they knew that we now have no privacy post-Patriot Act (although, most of us didn't know the extent of the snooping). But those discussions were looked upon by the common person on the street as "conspiracy theory". Now, the common citizen knows the truth. It is up to each one what they will do with it.

Now, if a whistleblower reveals the "big truth" about 9/11, with unequivocal documentation to back it up, are we going to say that "he/she didn't reveal anything that we didn't already know?"--just because we (a few well informed seekers of truth) already thought we knew the truth about it?

What Snowden has revealed has changed the conversation on the street. MANY are waking up and are much more willing to listen to and engage in other pertinent liberty discussions. And now, hopefully, some of them will continue their quest for truth, by reading, watching videos, visiting liberty web sites, digging deeper.

It's STILL conspiracy theory

When you say, "It up to each one what they will do with it".

I'm not going to do anything, continue living my life, posting what I think (no personal offense to anyone intended), some will destroy their lives, and some will run around like chicken littles.. telling us how BAD the USA is. Nothing more,, nothing less will happen.

The BIOG truth about 911 was the WTC was a white elephant and there was no way to legally take it down. Bush and the Saudis used it as an excuse to continue Americans dependence on Arab oil and opium, sustaining a police state (war on drugs).

Snowjob didn't say anything anyone on the street is going to care about anymore than the Mayan Calander.

deacon's picture

but did they in fact

open more eyes for the american people,the ones not awake?
does the word/term felony created by the gov mean anything?
you know,a felony can encompass anything they want anymore
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

But you can bear false witness against greenwald and snoweden

I was wondering what people were paying for a 6 year DP log-on these days.

Free includes debt-free!