-129 votes

Am I the only one on DP that thinks Zimmerman was guilty?

You know I think back to when this whole Trevon Martin shooting broke. People were outraged that Zimmerman was not charged. I mean whites and blacks alike.

Then something changed. Somehow this became a race issue.

Who was really standing their ground that night. Zimmerman who had a gun, or Trevon Martin.

A seventeen year old is dead. What did he do? How did Zimmerman end up in a physical fight with Trevon Martin? Martin wasn't looking for trouble, he hadn't robbed anyone. This kid who was walking along eating skittles blapping on his cell phone just decided he was going to beat Zimmerman to death.

No one will ever convince me that Trevon Martin instigated a fight that night. Zimmerman was a tough guy with a gun, and an vigilante mind set.

Zimmerman was looking for trouble that night and he found it, he just didn't expect that Martin was going to turn the tables on him.

How the hell did this issue get turned around?

No one knows what really happened that night. I do know that Trevon was on that property legally and unarmed, and I do know Zimmerman was told NOT to follow him.

I think he obviously ignored that advice, followed Martin and attempted to detain him and it got physical.

Martin got the better of him Zimmerman shot him.

Just think for minute how this would have turned out if Zimmerman had not pursued Martin. Martin would have made it to his destination and none of this would have happened, or what id Zimmerman was not armed? He would have gotten the shit kicked out of him and learned a dam good lesson and Trevon Martin would still be alive.

Now have fun down voting me but before you do think about the original facts and how this whole tragedy began.

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Well, I guess if there is one

Well, I guess if there is one that still thinks Zimmerman is guilty...it is you.

Do I think Zimmerman was morally guilty?

Yes, the same way OJ Simpson was probably morally guilty. Do I think the verdict was correct in both cases? Yes, because the prosecution has to prove its case beyond all shadow of a doubt. I would much rather keep that requirement for conviction, and let a thousand guilty men go free, than to convict even one innocent man.

In the state of Florida Zimmerman was not Guilty

In the state of California he would have been Guilty.

Zimmerman is NOT WHITE -- for Godsake. His Dad might be German but on this mother's side he has African - Indian - Spanish ancestry.

Why are people blind to this OBVIOUS reality -- he is not white.

He's not a "white hispanic" either, as he has Indian and African on his hispanic side.

I think Zimmerman is a punk -- but that's personal. Neighborhood watch don't need "guns" for patrol -- you just need to report, that's it.

Criminals do not like to be watched.

Dissagree with you on a couple fronts

He would ave not been guilty in California either, contrary to popular belief, the defense and prosecution agreed to not use Florida's Stand Your Ground law, only good old fashioned self defense was used. California has the exact same self defense law, as do the rest of the 48 states, not sure about the District of Columbia. Martin came after Zimmerman, Martin put Zimmerman on the ground and Zimmerman was on his back getting beat up, Zimmerman feared for his life and then shot Martin, it's self defense plain and simple.

As for a neighborhood watch have guns, I'm all for it, rather people in my neighbors than out of control cops.

Everything else I agree with you

It is very difficult to get a carry permit in California

and I doubt "NW" would have them -- most security guards don't carry guns in California, though you can get a guard card for that purpose -- it's the companies (like many vineyards) that don't want them.

Anyway -- the part that would not fly in California is that Zimmerman was following Martin, ignored the command to NOT persue, and used a gun after engaging Martin. In Florida that might fly, but in Cali no way.

Ignored the command huh

From who exactly? It better be God himself, because there is no mortal on this earth that commands me. Though I agree that George was almost certainly the instigator, and everyone would have been better off if he didn't ignore the ADVICE. I'm only commenting because your word choice points to a level of submission that I do not condone.

it depends

on what county

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Are you the only one?

Yeah...probably. Most people here on the DP think for themselves, therefore Mr. Zimmerman was actually far more patient than I would have been; He waited until his head was being smashed into the sidewalk...I would have shot him at 8 feet away.

Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry

I agree with a lot of what

I agree with a lot of what you said.

GZ thought he was a deputy dog tough guy with his CCW but I doubt he started the actual fight.

Though I think one could make the argument that GZ precipitated it.

And he definitely could have avoided it, though Ive seen many argue that TM circled around and jumped the guy, which I simply dont believe.

I think GM confronted him and got his fat ass whipped.

Everything I've been taught is that a CCW holder should avoid confrontations.

If you haven't

already, go to www.dlas.org. Take the Zimmerman verdict survey, which is well sourced, and then say whether or not the jury's verdict was right and whether or not it should have went to trial at all.

I thought that I had done a pretty decent job at keeping up with the case, but there were 5 or so things on that survey that I hadn't even come across. Blew my mind.



too much propaganda during this circus in my opinion. Trayon was a thug, Zimmerman saved his own life as Trayon smashed his head against the asphalt. That simple. If guns were illegal in this country I am confident Zimmerman would be dead. He might die anyways from the media-lynching that has taken place, and it's only a matter of time before someone kills him. The question is whether Zimmerman went looking for trouble that night is valid, but an altercation took place and Zimmerman is lucky to be alive.

Peace, Freedom and Prosperity. Not War, Welfare and Bankruptcy.


I think he was guilty

of something. He just wasn't proven guilty of 2nd degree murder. Burden of proof is on the state as it should be. Justice may not have been served but the state should have chosen it's charges more appropriately, as in, something it could prove. So, IMO, GZ was protected from the state thanks to the bill of rights. I think this prosecution went exactly as it should have.

BTW, this is the first time I've posted about this. I've tried to stay out of this conversation because I think the whole thing was a waste of taxpayer money and should never have been tried because, again, the state prosecution knew they could not prove the charges from the start. This was all just used for race baiting. Frankly I'm tired of hearing about it and more importantly, I'm surprised that anyone calling him/herself a libertarian cannot come to the same conclusion I have...this is a win for liberty...the state was restrained by our constitution and lost its case.

...and that's all I have to say about that...

What was he guilty of?

What was he guilty of?

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

He was surely

guilty of making a bad decision. Possibly trespassing.

Trespassing? In his own

Trespassing? In his own neighborhood? And what bad decision?

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

Yeah. Trespassing.

He didn't own the property he was on...so yeah. And yes a bad decision. He should have either stayed home or at least stayed in his car until those that can get away with murder arrived. Like I said above...that's all i have to say about that. I cannot speak intelligently to the facts of the case. I was not there and I was not on the jury.

I can speak intelligently about this though...I travel alot late at night and have been doing so for about 20 years of working on a week by week hitch in the oilfield. I've always stayed away from potential violent situations. They are not hard to recognize if you know what you are looking for. Furthermore, I have been forced to pull a sidearm on a possible assailant through no fault of my own. The situation was resolved immediately and without violence. Would I have ended dude? Yep. Would I have followed dude? Nope. I didn't then and I wouldn't now. Finally, like I said, I wasn't there with Treyvon and Zimmerman. I don't know the facts of the case. I was not on the jury. Almost anything I would presume now would be wrong. But, I think that those of us that carry firearms assume a special responsibility to not inject ourselves into situations that might escalate into violence. A fist fight is a fist fight. I've had my share of those. Once a firearm is introduced, the fistfight goes away, no matter who gets it first. I always back out of confrontations simply because I have the option of deadly force. Most that want a fight don't have that option...and they don't realize their opponent is armed. I think Zimmerman made a mistake. Was he guilty of murder? Absolutely not. He was stupid.

Again...that's all I have to say about that...

Complicated case

The problem with this case was that it was turned into a show trial by the state. So the MSM and the Feds were pushing for a conviction. As some one said the jury should get a ticker tape parade for refusing to give into the pressure. From what I have read the prosecutor messed up by going for a murder charge to appease the political side of this case. So justice was served by the jury's verdict.

That said, Zimmerman does strike me as a cop wannabe and with all the videos we have of cops drunk on power, I don't quite trust him either. My public defender friends say that in these situations every one including the cops lie, the truth is some where tangled up in that. But you can't convict somebody of murder just because you don't like them or think they were rash. And if it makes you feel better he will never have normal life after this.


It wasn't complicated in the

It wasn't complicated in the least bit.... did you watch the trial, and be honest..

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

My advice would be that if

My advice would be that if you are going to write a post defending someone is that you should at least know how to spell their name.

The thing that doesn't fit for me about the Trayvon defense is

how does Zimmerman catch Trayvon if he doesn't know where he is, doesn't know his destination, and Trayvon is roughly 600 feet from home and a wide receiver on the football team?

One of the two men cried for help 14 times on the 911 tape.

That's serious business, and clearly that person was in real fear.

What explanation is there other than that Trayvon deliberately came back to confront Zimmerman, perhaps emboldened by knowing he was close to home "just in case"?

If Trayvon came back to confront Zimmerman, why would he end up screaming for help with no wounds or grass stains on his back?

One reason might be that Zimmerman drew his gun as Trayvon approached. But then, how did Zimmerman end up on his back with a broken nose and wounds on the back of his head? Why would Trayvon attack his head repeatedly and completely ignore the gun hand? Trayvon's DNA would be on the gun or Zimmerman's DNA under Trayvon's fingernails, and probably the first shot wouldn't have been dead center in that case.

Also, would Zimmerman dare to lie about who was screaming prior to knowing for certain that there were zero witnesses that could identify the voice? It would get him put away for good. And what about volunteering for and passing a voice stress analysis test?

Emotionally I feel the same

Its a dark feeling that lurks inside of me. knowing a 17 year old teen is dead because a cop used a gun.

FACT: We will never truly know what happened that night.

Knowing that Logically do you have any say in the matter?

had you been called upon as a jury. Do you believe your Verdict would have changed the Verdict overall?

Your outrage should not be focused on the trial, but the Law itself.

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?

"FACT: We will never truly

"FACT: We will never truly know what happened that night."

WHAT? We DO know what happened that night. Did you watch the trial? I doubt most people here did. They are going by what they "feel."

"Its a dark feeling that lurks inside of me. knowing a 17 year old teen is dead because a cop used a gun."

What cop?

You mean the 17 year old "GANGSTA" who beat up someone and was shot in self-defense. The same age as the other punks that just killed the Australian guy and the same punks that beat the old vet to death in WA.

What law? Self-defense? Which is not a law, but a defense.

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

What LAW?

So u r against self-defense, you don't like the stand your ground law?

The 17 year old is dead because he attacked someone .. why didn't he walk away? why?

OMG My head is going to explode.

The logic fails here are making me so irate right now. While I believe that jury probably made the right decision, based on the charges given. I also feel that an enormous injustice has occurred here, and it makes me sick that LIBERTARIANS of all people, can't figure this out.

If you look at the hard evidence that we know. It's clear that Trayvon Martin was on his way home from the store, and had no intention of approaching anyone. He didn't attack the convenience store clerk, he calmly purchased his crap, and walked out. We KNOW from George's own recorded phone call that he drove up on Trayvon and felt something was out of place. If you look at a map of where George Zimmerman lived, and where Trayvon's father lived... Given the fact that George said he was leaving his house on an errand, it becomes clear that George came up behind Trayvon as he was on his way home from the 7-11. From the Jeantel testimony we are told that George Zimmerman approached Trayvon and asked him what he was doing there... Ok, now everyone keeps referring to Zimmerman as a "Neighborhood Watch" or a "security guard", according to what we know both of these terms aren't completely truthful. Zimmerman was essentially a self appointed neighborhood watch "citizen patrol" (think Jay Santos of the Citizen's Auxiliary Police). He has a CWP, but that gives him no special authority, over any other citizen (armed or not). Let me say this. I'm from Florida, and I'm a proud second amendment activist. When you're carrying here, you're supposed to use the same sort of restraint that you would if you didn't have a permit and were in your home, or on your property. You may be allowed to carry the gun, but you're still only allowed to use it in an absolute last resort. Now, I honestly don't care if Trayvon hit Zimmerman or not. Zimmerman was absolutely out of line. That is not responsible gun ownership. Most of my family carries, and we would NEVER do what he did. I would NEVER deem someone "suspicious" just for walking down the sidewalk in the rain or "standing in the rain". I certainly wouldn't call the police unless I saw him breaking a law. And I DEFINITELY wouldn't get out of the SAFETY of my car, to go over where I last saw someone that I considered to be "DANGEROUS". I mean at one point wasn't Zimmerman claiming this kid was staring him down or approaching his vehicle??? This is where I feel Zimmerman actually VIOLATED the Stand your ground law. He didn't stand his ground. He got out of his car and got himself in to a NEEDLESS situation where he "had" to use his gun. Are you picking up what I'm putting down here? He acted recklessly, and was out of line. He isn't guilty of first degree murder, but he did needlessly cause that guy's death. He should have gone home and let the police handle it. He's in a car with a gun, a kid outside his car with no gun is no threat. How much safer could he have been???

OMG MY head is going to explode

Where is it in the libertarian handbook that you can whoop the shit out of someone for following you .. why didn't Trayvon walk away, that would of been the libertarian thing to do

So GZ can't walk around his neighborhood, oH I guess only Trayvon can walk around the neighborhood

Where do you come up with this "special authority" BS .. In my book everyone has the SAME authority .. but you Statists think Government employees have more authority then citizens

I agree GZ had a lapse of judgment .. so u r gonna charge him for that??

So you think you can beat the shit outta someone for following them .. that is pure BS

Travon should of also been packing heat.

We see hundreds of fcuked up cops doing horrendous things while on the "job." And here we have a statist "vigilante-" cop wanna-be starting something with a black kid after being told by the 911 operator to stay away...

Zimmerman reminds me of eric cartman as the koon. A stupid statist "vigilate."

This whole story is a distraction from the Hastings "accident" and Manning's trial.

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees


do you know GZ wasn't the first to initiate the attack after perusing him? Where you actually there the night TM died?

Fact is that we will never know what truly happened that night.

End of story.

His name is Edward Snowden

What is Capitalism?

No, the fact is you never

No, the fact is you never watched the trial... that IS a fact... stop commenting based on your feelings...

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

Answer This PeggyR

So i guess it is OK to beat the shit out of someone following you, how about looking at you wrong can i beat the shit out of them then, How about calling you names can i do it then, that would teach them a lesson eh Asshat.

How about the chick in the short mini-skirt, she had it comin eh Peggy

here's what we should be celebrating

the scenario these six heroic women had no choice but to judge was one where a man was jumped and beaten. fearing for his life he shot the man on top of him doing the beating.

whether they believed it true or not, the state failed to prove it's version of the events that evening. whether or not that's the way it really happened, only zimmerman, martin and God know. trayvon didn't win. zimmerman didn't win.
we won.

any one of us that might find ourselves set upon by some miscreant. any innocent person falling prey to someone. we won. we don't have to take it, even if that means lethal force.

this doesn't mean i'm glad martin is dead. this doesn't mean i worship zimmerman. this means i'm glad my right to defend myself is still recognized by decent people.

i want to thank those six brave women who understood what was really at stake.

"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul