-129 votes

Am I the only one on DP that thinks Zimmerman was guilty?

You know I think back to when this whole Trevon Martin shooting broke. People were outraged that Zimmerman was not charged. I mean whites and blacks alike.

Then something changed. Somehow this became a race issue.

Who was really standing their ground that night. Zimmerman who had a gun, or Trevon Martin.

A seventeen year old is dead. What did he do? How did Zimmerman end up in a physical fight with Trevon Martin? Martin wasn't looking for trouble, he hadn't robbed anyone. This kid who was walking along eating skittles blapping on his cell phone just decided he was going to beat Zimmerman to death.

No one will ever convince me that Trevon Martin instigated a fight that night. Zimmerman was a tough guy with a gun, and an vigilante mind set.

Zimmerman was looking for trouble that night and he found it, he just didn't expect that Martin was going to turn the tables on him.

How the hell did this issue get turned around?

No one knows what really happened that night. I do know that Trevon was on that property legally and unarmed, and I do know Zimmerman was told NOT to follow him.

I think he obviously ignored that advice, followed Martin and attempted to detain him and it got physical.

Martin got the better of him Zimmerman shot him.

Just think for minute how this would have turned out if Zimmerman had not pursued Martin. Martin would have made it to his destination and none of this would have happened, or what id Zimmerman was not armed? He would have gotten the shit kicked out of him and learned a dam good lesson and Trevon Martin would still be alive.

Now have fun down voting me but before you do think about the original facts and how this whole tragedy began.



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I will say that I agree with

I will say that I agree with Jefferson, in that slavery was abhorrent but it was also, at the time, a device that was necessary for life in the south. He referred to it aptly by saying that "we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. Justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other." He preceded that in his letter to John Holmes, saying "I considered it at once as the knell of the Union. It is hushed indeed for the moment, but this is a reprieve only, not a final sentence. A geographical line, coinciding with a marked principle, moral and political, once conceived and held up to the angry passions of men, will never be obliterated; and every new irritation will mark it deeper and deeper."

I believe that our government handled the issue of slavery wrong on all accounts, I believe it stirred the angry passions of men with the Civil War, it allowed the effects of slavery to fester through the implementation of Jim Crowe in the south, and it continued to stir the pot with the Civil Rights Act, instead of simply declaring that all men are free and independent. The government's approach was to apply the collectivist mindset, instead of instilling the notion that we are all individuals, that we are defined by our character not by the color of our skin.

As far as race being a part of the Zimmerman non-emergency call - Zimmerman called because he saw someone suspicious. The description of Trayvon as being black was no different than describing the make or color of a suspicious car. I don't see it as people trying to defend Zimmerman because he's white or Latino or whatever. I see those who are backing Zimmerman as people trying to defend our natural right to self-defense. If I can speak frankly about this, I would say the black community has been largely let down by the voices that are trying to paint this as a racially motivated crime. Because it is the same voices that have effectively disarmed large swaths of the black community and made victims out of them for the sake of saving lives that are, in no other terms, noxious to society and their communities. Society is meant to protect life, but in the cases that it can't, the innocent is to be preferred, and by innocent, the age isn't the deciding factor.

The biggest issue I see with the Trayvon supporters is that they refuse to see the totality of the physical altercation. They want to only take into account Zimmerman leaving his car, after being told "not to leave his car by a law enforcement officer", as well as the singular act of him shooting Trayvon. Well, I hate to say it, but this case can't be looked at like that. The defining moment in this case wasn't Trayvon getting suspended from school, it wasn't even Zimmerman leaving his car. It was when the interaction became physical. Based on the totality of evidence, I'm left with the conclusion that Trayvon was the aggressor, and by that act, made it lawful for Zimmerman to shoot and kill Trayvon.

With all that said, this whole issue is tragic ... And it is being seized upon by those whom I believe are trying to keep the black community from ever being touched by the liberty movement. Collectivism must continue for the two-party system to remain in power.

This is one of the best

This is one of the best statements I've read on here period.

My view on the physical altercation; who here with a sound mind can say that if they were being followed by someone in the dark, they wouldn't feel a certain way. Honestly, no matter who it is, black, white, hispanic, whatever, I would have my hand close to the M&P Shield, because all are capable of evil. I never overlooked this one thing. We all go to the physical altercation without realizing that it had to start someone. I believe that Zimmerman followed him and words were exchanged, it got physical, and Zimmerman got into a situation he couldn't handle so he shot him. I honestly look at it like this, if Martin would have killed Zimmerman, he would have probably been protected by the same law. (and the fact that he was the only one who could tell his side of the story). Totally is just that. It's not just the altercation but what led to it and how it ended. But I was always taught that we should look at the reason why in ALL situations. Not just where we see fit.

I agree with your last paragraph 100%, but I also believe, as crazy as it sound, that the alienation comes both from within and without.

Zimmerman's defense never

Zimmerman's defense never invoked "Stand Your Ground" in court. It was pure self defense, as Zimmerman had no way of escape. The only one to even mention Stand your Ground was the prosecution, but this law did not apply if Zimmerman had no means of escape and his attacker was reaching for his gun.

We only know Zimmerman's side of the story that night, but if Trayvon had been enroute to his dad's house, why didn't he just go there? Instead, he circled around and ambushed Zimmerman as he was getting back to his car.

If Zimmerman "profiled" Martin, it is because

young blacks commit a VERY disproportionate share of crimes, so, unfortunately, the kind of racial profiling you are referring to will be correct more often than not. When blacks stop committing so many crimes, people will stop viewing them as likely criminals. Otherwise, you are asking people to believe the Emperor has a wonderful new cloak on when in fact he has no clothes.

Coming from a "black" that has never committed a crime,

If you don't see an issue with that mindset, then you have more issues than anyone who falls for race baiting do. Profiling is profiling, no matter how you justify it bro. It's easy to assume that all people have the same mentality that you just spoke of, but I've been around, so I've sat with those of different ethnic backgrounds who consider me either a brother or an enemy, so I know that it is both in the world, just like it is males of African decent who do right and wrong. I just hate when these situations are made into a media circus, because it always allows closeted feelings to be shown. But I'll stop here because it's not up to me to make anybody see anything; a change of the mind always begins in the heart.

There is also this

"From January 1, 2011 through February 26, 2012, police were called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times.[67] During the 18 months preceding the February 26 shooting, Zimmerman called the non-emergency police line seven times. On five of those calls, Zimmerman reported suspicious looking men in the area, but never offered the men's race without first being asked by the dispatcher.[81][82][83] Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[84] Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood."

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

Zimmerman was NOT guilty....

Here's the Dave Champion show explaining the details of the case. If you want the unbiased view of the Zimmerman case, WATCH THIS!!!!


http://youtu.be/2qq65vJc4m0

Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

Faith in God will prevail all things!

Can someone explain

why the only pictures seen of Marten is from when he was a cute little pre-teen?
Maybe we should see pictures of Zimmerman when he was the same age. That way we could see if he was the "punk" some people seem to think he is.

Also for those who think this was racially motivated, you should check the FBI report. They found NO racial motivation.

Because of MSM and our illegal president Mr Zimmerman and his family can no longer live anywhere under their current name. They will have to change their name and move to some other state, just in order to live their lives without harassment. Do you really think that isn't punishment enough for protecting his life? Imagine his children in school and what the other children will be doing and saying to them. Talk about child abuse! And DO NOT say that George should have thought about that before he shot Marten! That's a stupid remark and you know it.

For the person who think "Yeah, those same Florida jurors THAT ACQUITTED CASEY ANTHONY THE CHILD MURDERER"
How the hell did they find exactly the same jurors? Or are you saying that ANYONE in Florida would be stupid? Do you condemn everyone in the state because you don't agree with the decision of 12 people? Who the hell are YOU - some kind of god or other supreme being? Those 12 people heard information from BOTH sides of the argument and made a decision based on that information! YOU have only heard what MSM has told you and your own internal dialogue.

Actually

They said that the last pictures Martin took was on a horse wearing a pink shirt..lol I'm just saying..

The same reason NBC altered

The same reason NBC altered the 911 audio tape, the same reason they claimed to of heard "f$&king coon" when they actually heard "f:!king cold", the same reason CNN claimed that the pictures didn't show any injuries when they actually did, the same reason they claimed GZ was white when he was actually mixed race, the same reason they called him a white-Hispanic after it was proved he wasn't white, they same reason the Sanford pd chief got canned and they hired a black police chief - because the media loves to stir up racism.

______
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

I Agree

I think you make a lot of good points Peggy R. Being stalked by an armed man is in itself an aggressive act. The point is as you said that Treyvon was legally going about his business. He had every right not to be harassed by anyone; let alone followed by an armed man. I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people who profess not to be racists are in fact just that. They take such pleasure in incidents like this.

PR

Grab a dictionary

Trayvon was not "stalked" nor "harassed".
Yes, he had "rights" - so did Zimmerman. He had rights to be a neighborhood watch, carry a gun, be suspicious, call 911, and get out of his truck.
The first crime was committed by Trayvon - he did not have the "right" to physically attack another person. Once Trayvon committed a crime - Zimmerman had the right to defend himself.

Important concept: "Your rights end where another's nose begins".
Learned that from my favorite history teacher.

Trying to fan the flames of racism? Your views are worse than CNN.

neighborhood WATCH not neighborhood apprehend program

Your a 100% right that Zimmerman broke no laws but if you want to hunt perps on public streets or property that DOES NOT BELONG TOO YOU then get a badge, the force could use some Liberty minded peoples.

If you choose to exercise your rights to make a citizens arrest than you will suffer all that comes with it. Is taking someone's life for them "casing a joint"? Is it really worth it? I thought we advocated a non-interventionist policy foreignly but we don't advocate the same domestically/personally? Please do tell do you also support "stop and frisk" policies also? Because that is pretty much what Zimmerman was doing.

I can tell you how I would respond to another male following my moves late at night, especially if I thought this gentleman was armed and it would probley be much like Trayvon. Please do tell how you would respond by being followed by a grown man, yelling at you in a dark alley with no indication that he was a peace officer.

???

Zimmerman did NOT attempt to apprehend nor arrest Trayvon. Nor did he yell at him, stop him nor frisk him. Get your facts straight.
He watched, he reported. He was within his legal and moral rights.
What exactly is your point?
Are you simply stating that you don't agree with neighborhood watch groups? Sorry, but neighbors have a right to form them and to help and assist one another in times of trouble or suspected trouble.
Zimmerman had permission of his neighbors to be where he was and to do what he did - he wasn't on "strange" streets.

As to your question - If I was unarmed and felt threatened by someone who had a gun, I'd call 911 on my cell phone instead of my friend to complain about someone following me. And I sure as heck wouldn't sneak back and physically attack them. If you, as you claim, are fool enough to attack a "threatening" armed man with your fists (as did Trayvon) - anticipate similar results.

You claim that only "people with badges" should be apprehending other people yet you brag that YOU would take the law into your own hands and do what Trayvon did. What a hypocrite.
By your standards...if Zimmerman should have called the badged personnel - so should have Trayvon.
Yet, the only person who actually DID call the badged people was Zimmerman - you are totally confused.

I didnt know Zimmerman tried to make a citizens arrest..????

There is zero proof of that, and since he was on the phone with 9-11 on his way back to his car when he was attacked it simply proves that emotions get the better of common sense and reasoning. And the silliness continues "Please do tell how you would respond by being followed by a grown man, yelling at you in a dark alley with no indication that he was a peace officer." I would RUN! Run for fear of my life, and at 17 I would outrun said alley way criminal, not hide in the bushes and attack him.

It is fine to have opinions in the case that differ from the majority, from the police investigating, from the FBI interrogators, from the 6 racist jurors, and from the mounds of evidence pointing to fact instead of emotion, but to make up a scenario to justify something that did not happen is the epitome of reaching.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

Apprehend?

Where is the evidence that he tried to make a "citizen's arrest"?

Have you read the context of what had been going on in the neighborhood before the Martin incident? It might be worth your while.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-sho...

Why couldn't Martin just say that he was headed to his dads house and then kept walking?

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

It doesn't matter what he was doing!

You people are out of control, you scream about Liberty but then try to clap for Zimmerman killing Martin in case of future crime that Martin "could possibly" be doing. I'm sorry looking suspicious is not a crime worthy of death. Martin should not of had to run from Zimmerman's "stop and frisk" procedure. Until Martin actually broke the law he has just as much Liberty as Zimmerman.

Zimmerman watched too many NRA propaganda ads and thought being armed is a license to play coppers and robbers. He choose to confront what he thought MIGHT be criminal activity and forced a stupid kid to make a stupid choice.

Trayvon was breaking NO LAWS, you can't make the claim for Zimmerman and ignore that for Martin.

I own several guns, have a CPL, carry everyday, and donate what I can to the GOA but Zimmerman took it upon himself to check Trayvon's "papers" because he didn't look like he "belonged" in the area.

I grew up on the white trash side of the tracks and at 17yo I thought someone is following me down in the dark I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO RUN. I've did nothing wrong. If you think Liberty is having to run from armed men when you have doing nothing wrong you better read a couple more Dr. Paul books. You can't arrest someone because they look like their upto no good, sorry it doesn't work that way.

The cops don't even have legal authority to do a "papers check" but you all give Zimmerman a pass for doing the same.

Trouble with definitions

confront, "papers check".

If you listen to the 911 call you will hear that he actually did not want to confront it at all. It appears that he did watch though so that he could tell the officers where to find him when they arrived.

Have you read up on the neighborhood and what was happening there before this incident?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-sho...

He did not have to run. He just needed to state that his Father lived there and he was going back to his house and then walk away.

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

you are making crap up

really, much of what you said was conjecture and not in evidence.

your brain is filling in the blanks to create a story that fits your point of view.

If you go back and watch the trial from start to finish, you might actually learn something about yourself and human nature. You also might learn something about how innocent people can be demonized and possibly be convicted on a witch hunt with little to zero evidence.

FBI found no evidence that race was a motivating factor...

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/07/12/155918/more-evidence-r...

Race bating is for the weak minded when the explanation a tragedy is hard to swallow. Making an issue about race is certainly more racist in the fact it is reaching for something that isn't there, and the assumption that had Zimmerman been carrying a knife the same result would not have occurred once he was assaulted, for as we know it is "uncomfortable" to be followed, it is a felony to assault someone. While the prosecutor spent months digging along with the FBI investigators, there was ZERO evidence that race played a factor, it has nothing to do with people here being racist, only people like you injecting race because your emotions cannot handle a dead child under any circumstance. of which is commendable, but not to a point of creating a fake reality. Courts across the nation charge underage kids as adults all the time, even given life in prison, and unfortunately George Zimmerman did not get to check the mans wallet before being assaulted and knocked to the ground.

So while there is zero evidence to support a racism case, nor is there one ounce of racism in the posts I have read here, it appears that your emotions have reduced your ability to think rationally, or perhaps you are allowing the media to think for you. The only pleasure anyone here has gotten is that the right to self preservation was upheld, and your synopsis that the jury, defense, and Zimmerman himself were racist were unfounded. As the progressives try to remove the most basic right of self defense, one only need look at a Miami case involving a robber who broke into a house and killed the owner trying to claim "stand your ground", basically legalizing murder of innocents, but I'm sure it was racist...

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Stand-Your-Ground-Claimed-in-Mi...

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

Agreed

Looks like they fell for the trap just like good little lemmings.

______
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Well gosh if you really care that much you might spell his name

correctly.

TRAYVON. T R A Y V O N.

T.

R.

A.

Y.

V.

O.

N.

TRAYVON TRAYVON TRAYVON.

Got it yet?

Now spell it back for me so I know you've got it.

T.

R.

A.

Y.

V.

O.

N.

Ok, you're done. Go back to whatever else it is that you do.

Defeat the panda-industrial complex

I am dusk icon. anagram me.

original facts in court go

original facts in court go against everything you just said.

Ron Paul 2016

too much common sense in this

too much common sense in this facebook post, please delete;)

Ron Paul 2016

No, he's guilty. Guilty of

No, he's guilty. Guilty of going for his gun in a fight he couldn't finish.

It shames me to see all this talk of Trayvon wanting to be a gangster. Zimmerman wanted to be in the gang that I thought we were all against.

So he's a private, armed citizen. That isn't a green light to act like a bad cop.

Forget race. A kid is dead because he stood his ground. I would have done the same thing. Hell, I have done it, and I'll do it again.

As far as Zimmerman's desperate will to 'survive'- I own a gun, and I've lost fights. I've been beaten unrecognizable, but I took it. Zimmerman's a punk and and a general human embarrassment.

The Left has co-opted this story and framed it in fascicle, racist language that's made us root for the bad guy. Cops didn't even like wannabe cops until now. I'm standing my ground on this. I don't like bad cops, nor their acolytes.

i think he was saying martin

i think he was saying martin "stood his ground" not referring to the law.

Zimmerman did not stand his ground, nor invoke this law in

Court. This was never even a defense used, only media spin you are regurgitating. Allowing emotion to get in the way of reality, Zimmerman was knocked to the ground as evidence of a wet backed jacket, while Martin had none, eyewitnesses saw Martin on top of Zimmerman striking downward and so far as the evidence showed this was the first law that was broken. I'm not sure why you are shamed of the talk of Travon wanting to be a gangster, have you looked at his facebook posts? While I am sure you are a tough guy taking a beating, if you were armed and took a beating which could have allowed a criminal to take your firearm and harm you or others with your gun, I would suggest you sell it immediately as you are not responsible enough to carry said gun and are a danger to those around you in doing so. Why would you carry a gun and risk this happening, that was the most irresponsible comment I have ever read???

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

Read it again, slowly. He

Read it again, slowly. He brought his gun to a fist-fight. No criminal would have taken my gun, because I wouldn't be walking around with it, and, if I did, I wouldn't get within arms reach of someone I thought was up to no good.

As for thinking I ought to turn in my gun, because I keep it secured in my home... Well, Zimmermann did the other thing, and now a man is dead. If you want to up the ante on "the most irresponsible thing you've ever read," Read your response again.

you have already fallen for

you have already fallen for the medias bs wanna be cop meme!

Ron Paul 2016