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The Zimmerman case: Untold truths

The Zimmerman case: Untold truths, who was responsible for Trayvon Martin's death? Analysis of the Zimmerman case. The truths ignored by the media.
http://youtu.be/mbyPWl45uog



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Zimmerman represented himself not town-watch

Zimmerman by refusing to identify himself stopped representing town-watch.

How could everyone including me miss this obvious point?

He was no different than a bank robber who ended up shooting someone in fear of his life.

Zimmerman belongs in a place where he can't hurt anyone else. To bad the only excuse to doing this is to accuse him of racist assault.

In Philly PA RichardKanePA

"How could everyone including me miss this obvious point?"

Your logic is so garbled it doesn't surprise me.

Zimmerman no different than a Bank Robber?

Take the Zimmerman quiz.....

http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/

As always is the case, Jan nails it. It is so refreshing to hear a common sense voice without all of the main stream rhetoric. From past interviews I would like to see Jan take the Pulitzer prize for true journalism, skipping the softball questions and challenging political figures spin. Keep up the good work Jan, we need many many more like you to bring reality into a world of spin.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

apt summary of points, thanks

Your summary of events was fine. Your statements regarding Martin's principles was fine. As a matter of fact I've run across many people pointing to Zimmerman's initiation of "aggression". These people, however insightful or well intentioned in spirit, have all failed to draw "aggression" from ambiguity. You have not failed to do so. Apparent aggression and evident aggression are not difficult to distinguish, and you have aptly done so in reference to Martin's use of direct physical force.

I would like to point out though, the one bit of rhetorical thrust from you that irked me a bit. I would like for you to ponder the essence of what you say around the 3 minute mark, in a broader context to perhaps better consistently tie your future terms to the foundation of your broader philosophy.

"The police need people that will cooperate with them."

"They cannot protect a neighborhood on their own."

"They need other people."

Certainly none of those statements are incorrect, but they are ultimately irrelevant if not least, distractions. Ultimately we are concerned with the needs of the communities [of individuals] and neighborhoods, not the particular needs of the Police [proffessional law enforcement officers], even in their(Police) efforts to protect "us". The communities' delegation of authority to professional Police agencies does not in any way relieve us or our communities of our inherent authorities to defend and protect ourselves. It is ultimately irrelevant whether Zimmerman was or was not needed to help the Police agency. The only "need" relevant as such is ultimately the need of those directly in the community, as individually or collectively as they see fit, to protect themselves.

Jan Helfeld's picture

Thank you.

Thank you.

Jan Helfeld

Jan, You like Logic and Reason...

You speak with too much certainty...

Were you there (at the scene of the crime)??? If not, then stay humble man...

(your scholastic reasoning, based on universals, does not apply to every specific circumstance; if your reasoning actually did- I would worship you as God!)

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

Check this out:

The Federal Dept. of Justice asking for Tips to Help Prosecute George Zimmerman – DOJ/CRS Sets Up Email National Hotline

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/07/16/its-come-to-t...

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

...

I've come to the conclusion that this is a media psy-op to distract people from real important issues.

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

Cyril's picture

Very much plausible.

Very much plausible.

"... a media psy-op to distract people from real important issues."

Indeed, in that case... just take your pick.

Be aware you'll need several lifetimes to just go through the entire list.

Although, true, the catch-22 has been debunked like... what? ... well, at least 150+ years ago, seemingly:

http://www.dailypaul.com/280094/to-the-youth#Antagonisms

"Bear."

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

...

I'm tired of all this zimmerman/travon b.s. Black kids get shot by cops all the time in inner-cities... where are the riots for those murders?

Everyone on each side of this case talks with very confident high levels of certainty.

What this case shows is nothing more and nothing less than the disgusting disease of racism in the united states coming from both sides.

The liberty movement at large is also blatantly fuming with racism... and that is a darn shame.

helfield's use of the word "overwhelmingly" shows how actual little certainty he in the premises of his argument. there is also "overwhelming" evidence to the other side of this story.

The only thing this story has done is bring afloat the turd in the punch bowl that racism is within the liberty movement in the united states.

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

take the quiz....

http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

I'm also surprised by the level of bigotry.

I never thought I'd see people on the DP supporting a person who violently assaulted a "cracker" because they thought they might be gay. Disgusting.

Not racism - it's cold hard facts.

Which represents the proverbial elephant in the room that no-one wants to acknowledge.

From the Bureau of Justice Statistics:

Based on available data from 1980 to 2008--

* Blacks were disproportionately represented as both homicide
victims and offenders. The victimization rate for blacks
(27.8 per 100,000) was 6 times higher than the rate for
whites (4.5 per 100,000). The offending rate for blacks (34.4
per 100,000) was almost 8 times higher than the rate for
whites (4.5 per 100,000).

* Males represented 77% of homicide victims and nearly 90% of
offenders. The victimization rate for males (11.6 per
100,000) was 3 times higher than the rate for females (3.4
per 100,000). The offending rate for males (15.1 per 100,000)
was almost 9 times higher than the rate for females (1.7 per
100,000).

* Approximately a third (34%) of murder victims and almost
half (49%) of the offenders were under age 25. For both
victims and offenders, the rate per 100,000 peaked in the 18
to 24 year-old age group at 17.1 victims per 100,000 and 29.3
offenders per 100,000.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/htus8008.txt

Why was there a neighborhood watch - because it was a safe community?

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

I Must Be A Racist, I love Having My Skull Bashed In !!!

Next time I'll leave my 44 Mag. at home..I need my head reshaped by street thugs to prove I'm not a racist..

Matter of fact, I'm going out tonight to prove I'm not like Zimmerman..

...take your gun with you!

just don't copy zimmerman in being a pseudo statist vigilante

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

take the quiz

http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

Shame on you!

I thought this was a libertarian website. Here you all are defending a person of authority, a wannabe cop on a power trip, against a young man who was walking back to his dad's house and got scared when a creepy guy was following him around. This is an outrage! People in authority must be held a countable when they act unprofessionally, especially when their actions lead to the death of an innocent person, and when they received direct orders to stay away from that person!

Trayvon had every right to do what he did. He was the one standing his ground. Shame on you--defending over-reaching, disobedient authority.

take the quiz

http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

"Here you all are defending a

"Here you all are defending a person of authority, a wannabe cop on a power trip, against a young man who was walking back to his dad's house and got scared when a creepy guy was following him around."
A couple of questions come to mind here...
First, at what level is Zimmerman a person of authority? Is being a volunteer in a local neighborhood watch an authority of some kind, even as a so called 'captain' in such a private organization? What authority did he have and over whom?
Second, you seem to able to see into both the motives and personal emotions of both Zimmerman and Martin. How did you achieve such crystal clear clairvoyance? Is anyone who participates in a local neighborhood watch a wannabe cop on a power trip, or just some? If it is the former, then should neighborhood watches not exist? Should private citizens in local communities not be allowed to organize in such fashion? If it is the latter, how do you know Zimmerman so well?
Third, if we grant, for the sake of argument that Zimmerman was a person of authority, then why is defending the actions of someone in authority a particularly non-libertarian thing to do? Perhaps an authority gets things right once in a while. Why not defend them when we think they do so?
"People in authority must be held a countable when they act unprofessionally, especially when their actions lead to the death of an innocent person, and when they received direct orders to stay away from that person!"
LOL! Now this is getting a bit funny. At what level was Zimmerman an authority in any profession related to this incident? Unprofessionally? Zimmerman received direct orders from whom? And was he obligated by either law or nature to obey these direct orders? Was there some obligatory authority involved in these direct orders? How is disobeying unbinding arbitrary human authority something Libertarians should not defend?

"Trayvon had every right to do what he did. He was the one standing his ground. Shame on you--defending over-reaching, disobedient authority."
Did Zimmerman initiate some kind of coercion on Martin? Is one private citizen following another private citizen in public coercion? When a private citizen is being followed by another private citizen in public, can he punch them in the nose and initiate coercion to stop it?

shame is right.

zimmerman was a statist vigilante...

travon messed up by not practicing his 2A rights!

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

You are flat wrong.

I don't care who started the fight. As soon as GZ hit the ground and TM jumped on top and started beating his head in the pavement then GZ becomes the defendant. There is a difference between defending and pummeling.

I'm with GUS

Trayvon got scared by the creepy guy following him so he was completely justified in breaking his nose and pummeling him for as long as he wanted, even while Zim was screaming for help over and over.

I like your sarcasm.

I like your sarcasm.

Yes you are correct.

I agree with you GUS818. Some Libertarians are showing their rather squalid true colours. It seems that their preference for natural law over statute law is rather superficial. I looked at S. Molyneux commentary. He repeatedly referred to statue law as justification. The whole thing just dripped with hypocrisy and mealy mouthed justification. The police who previously had just been agents of the state suddenly become the touchstone of justice and their actions unimpeachable. Condemnation of the war on drugs disappears and Martin becomes a drug used and possible pusher. All the usual clichés were rolled out.

Molyneux even said that use of the word stalking was wrong because it did not conform to the statute definition of stalking. A more thoughtful person would understand that the term is derived from hunting and exits independent of what might be in statute.

Martin had a right not to be bothered by anybody. He was being menaced by an armed man. There are plenty of people who feel threatened by you black men and even though they say they are not racist that is not the case that is exactly what they are.

PR

Thank you Paul100 but please note more details

Twice Martin asked Zimmerman "Why are you following me?" Martin 100 yards from his home had good reason not to let this threat know where he lived where his young brother was.

Another site claimed a walk in the pouring rain, which would have put mud on both of them.

Many people who are doing what they aren't supposed to do such as following someone around refusing to identify themselves or robbing a bank shoot to protect their life or at least you can't say beyond a reasonable doubt that they didn't.

With OJ Simpson being baiting into stealing his own cloths back, and the set up man suddenly banishing a gun, but not charged with the time is a handy precedent for locking Zimmerman up for racist assault.

http://www.dailypaul.com/293995/ignoring-ojs-false-theft-con...

In Philly PA RichardKanePA

thank you for reassuring my

thank you for reassuring my faith in the DailyPaul. you'd think the zimmerman defenders on here never heard Ron Paul talk about racial discrimination before! You are articulate it perfectly--they are putting statute over law, letter over spirit. with complete disregard to basic rights and human liberty.

What do you base your

What do you base your assumption that Zimmerman was a racist? Listen, I'm not trying to pick on you but I'm worried you have not reasoned with the facts. There is no reason race should have played a part in this case. The msm turned it into a circus.

Fact:

Zimmerman mentored black children
Zimmermans business partner is black
Zimmermans grandmother is part black

Following someone around & refusing to say why may not be racist

However is it an accident that everyone in the neighbor who who Zimmerman was harassing happened to be black.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment I disagree with. I gave it a "+". It has important information to add to our understanding.

I would like to suggest maybe abuse by a police wanted-to-be be put into the same box as police abuse, but maybe I am also twisting reality by doing so.

In Philly PA RichardKanePA

i'm not calling him a an

i'm not calling him a an outright racist. few people are true open racists today. the racism we deal with today is institutional and subliminal. the system is racist. cops target black people more. i see it all the time in ny and nj, god knows what it's like down south. i find it hard to believe he would have called in a suspicious person if it was a white kid talkin on his phone. the msm did turn it into a circus, but that doesn't mean race has nothing to do with it. that's just naive. just because he associates with a couple of black people and ya know helps little black kids doesnt mean when he is on the look-out for the bad guys, he isn't gonna get excited when he sees a young black man walkin down the street at night.

I will tell you how it is in the South...

Our neighborhood watch consists of two black men, a Mexican male, and two white men. Any of which I would stand up for in court should they fall under the same tragedy as Zimmerman. It makes perfect sense that those who have been raised in the most Liberal city in the U.S. via the public school indoctrination centers would have the emotional reaction as you have shown. I do not blame you GUS, as many across the nation fall for the media manipulation of facts to push the race bating and you have drank the kool-aid, not much unlike myself defending neo conservatism until 2004 before I awoke.

The verdict is in, and it is understandable why you cannot accept reality as you have been programmed to support the leftist view of reality. I have said it for years that there is a name for those that fear self defense, and that name is "victim".

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an