-50 votes

concerned letter from a distraught member, re: trayvon martin

Dear DailyPaul.com:

About me: I have been supporting Ron Paul since 2007 and before that I was a brainwashed neo-con supporter. The Daily Paul has been an essential website in my awakening into being and solidification as a libertarian. I don’t often post but I have in the past, most recently the Monday after the George Zimmerman verdict.

I cant wait for the attention on the Trayvon Martin case to die down. The trial has been used as a means to divide the populous, which partisans are taking advantage of to solidify the legitimacy and growth of the state.

Additionally, I want the attention to go away because the Daily Paul’s participation in the spectacle has astounded me. Not only do your reactions support a police state mentality, your exaltation of Zimmerman and celebration of the verdict have been drenched in demagoguery and unwarranted harshness. You are actively contributing to the divide of the people and falling on the side of tyranny.

Regardless of whatever stories or “facts” you believe in surrounding the death of Martin, there are certain truths that cannot be denied that place Zimmerman as a violator of liberty. Firstly, let us all agree, that self defense is a pillar of liberty. Had Zimmerman been just strolling down the street minding his own business and been attacked by Martin out of the blue, without a doubt Zimmerman would be justified in killing him. Of course this was not the case, but let us give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt and pretend that the story his defense used during the trial is the complete, truthful account of events. Zimmerman was driving in his car and saw Martin walking down the street. Zimmerman slows down and starts following him at night, in the rain. Martin sees that Zimmerman was looking at him and continues towards his destination. Zimmerman doesn’t say “excuse me young man, I want to talk to you.” He doesn’t even say “hey what are you doing?!” Zimmerman pulls his car over and keeps an eye on Martin. He then drives towards Martin again. No one else is around. Martin, taking a short cut, is able to get out of the site of Zimmerman. Zimmerman stops his car, gets out and continues to follow Martin on foot. This is aggressive behavior! After perceiving the escalating threat, Martin, a young man not an old woman, decides to confront this stranger who has been following him back to his home. After strategically positioning himself, Martin, taking no more risks, launches his attack. Zimmerman, unable to fend for himself, takes out his gun and shoots Martin dead.

No matter how you spin it, Zimmerman was the instigator. Had he not been following Martin, the 17 year old would have made it home safely. Zimmerman, even if he was well-intended, handled the situation with no respect towards Martin’s dignity as a person. Not only did he profile Trayvon based on his appearance, he treated him as though he were already guilty of a crime. This attitude is repugnant to a free society. Because of his misdeeds, a young man was shot dead, perhaps Zimmerman is not guilty of second degree murder, but how can you think the law should not hold him at least partially responsible? Let me get this straight: you can threaten someone, and when they fight you, you can just shoot them if you are loosing and get away scot-free? (such provocative behavior by a CC-er will surely be capitalized by the gun control crowd, after all it’s much less likely that Zimmerman would have gotten out of the car and followed Martin had he not had a gun)

Alas, to my horror, too many Daily Paul users think not just that, but also deem Zimmerman a hero, a great citizen and man. One person declared they wished Zimmerman would be neighborhood watch of his neighborhood!?! (apparently killing someone who is staying inside the gated community you are supposed to protect is a sign of good watchman-ship) This is a man who never became the cop he dreamed of being, so instead he carries a gun around and chronically reports things to the police. He is a self-appointed neighborhood watchman! These are the qualities of a man hungry for power and looking for trouble. I’m sure he’ll get a job offering at the NSA in a few years.

Moreover, the Daily Paul response has been toe-in-line with the talking points of the right-wing when it comes to the issues of drugs and race. You’d think these folks have never heard Ron Paul denounce drug-war propaganda or racial discrimination. Too many of you are participating in the vilification of this dead teenager based on selected internet posts and marijuana use! Also astonishing is the completely unnuanced and insensitive dismissal of the relevance of Martin’s race to the national discussion. Astonishingly, those of you who declare Martin’s race irrelevant are also the same ones attempting to legitimize Zimmerman’s actions because Martin fit the profile of wanted criminals, of which being black was an essential ingredient. He was being profiled and followed because he was young black man wearing a hoodie, forget the fact that it’s February and raining and the 21st century and the gated community has a significant population of black people. I mean it’s not like Trayvon was walking around a village in North Dakota where black people are only seen on television. Then many of you troll, “well Zimmerman is half-Hispanic so..” as if Hispanics can’t be racist. It’s not about Zimmerman’s race and it’s not about whether he is a racist, it’s about Martin’s race and whether it is just another coincidence that a young black male has been presumed to be criminal and shot dead for it. Black people experience America very differently than people of other races do. Martin’s death became a national story; it took on a higher meaning for black people—because they know all too well what it means to be looked at walking down a street and deemed suspicious. And they are frigging tired of it and they have a right to be! Your inability to understand that is atrocious. What’s next? Will they Daily Paul mock people in the Islamic world for protesting US imperialism?

When I tried to make these points, I was met with vitriolic denunciations and name-calling. Among other things, I was accused a “Democrat,” an “idiot” and an Al Sharpton echoer. I was not personally offended, just very disappointed: this close-minded hostility does not belong on the DailyPaul! These are the very “mob-rule” tactics that you denounce the left for adopting. Both sides are guilty of demagoguery and manipulation. As libertarians, we ought to transcend the partisan fray. We ought to understand both sides and point out the truth in both. We ought to frame the issue in Natural Law. We ought to protect the second amendment by punishing those who abuse it. We need not buy into the racial politics of the left but we ought to acknowledge the legitimacy of the origins of their grievances. And we ought to always insist on the dignity of the individual as an individual. You may still be glad Zimmerman was acquitted, but don’t pretend that it would be un-libertarian to think otherwise.

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i careless about

i careless about zimmerman,but if you are going to ignore the evidence in the case then you deserve every name they call you.

Ron Paul 2016

Drinking the Trayvonade

Forget Jim Jones and his toxic Kool-Aid concoction. The new mean LEAN is Trayvonade. Leftists and racists alike insist that Zimmerman "had it coming" because he disrespecked Saint Trayvon, and besides, he was carrying an evil gun.

New formula for Lean (which itself is a substitute for Purple Drank):

For AriZona Watermelon, substitute AriZona Fruit Punch.
For Skittles, substitute lollipops.
Go with codeine if you can get it, otherwise settle for Robitussin or Nyquil, or any other source of dextromethorphan (DXM).
Blend, chill, and serve.
My only quandary now, what to call it.
or Suckerpunch?

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
West of 89
a novel of another america

There is no hero here

Zimmerman broke zero laws and was within his natural rights to carry a gun concealed and follow someone he felt was suspicious in his own neighborhood. I would do the same if crime was occurring in my neighborhood and I saw something that looked,to me,suspicious. Where things went wrong is when the young man decided to punch Zimmerman in the face because he was following him. Unalienable rights gives me the right to do anything I wish to do whether you like it or not as long as I do not interfere with your equal rights. Tell me what right of Martin Zimmerman was interfering with? If you believe it is the right of privacy then show me where that right exists when you are in a public venue.

And if Martin successfully disarmed Zimmerman

and killed him with his own firearm, none of us would have ever heard of this case.


Suddenly Upset With Myself On Phony ArmedThief Chages On OJ Simp

I am suddenly very upset about not speaking out on O J Simpson framed for armed theft, and the person with the gun not even charged. Loosing ones clothes was not before part of a civil suit. And evidence wasn't stated that O J Simpson even knew a gun would be used during the robbery. We keep getting fed the end result (putting someone in jail) who deserves to be is what count).

I think thoughtful bloggers don’t automatically use the “+” and “–“key, unless a “+” to represent overwhelming praise. Sadly the future may depend on us joining this petty nonsense. I don't have time to go through every comment especially since I won't minus a comment I differ with but helps me think.

If one is thoughtful but thinks this the verdict should stand, question where was the mud that certain Zimmerman idealizes claim. Point out if was wrong for him not to mention town-watch when Trayvon twice asked why were you following me? And that Trayvon feared what looked like a hoodlum finding out where he lived.

As far as the Constitution in the wild-west a sheriff could post “Guns must be left outside of town”. If Philadelphia until this century had passed a law no guns allowed in the cities many public squares no one would stop them. The logic that one must compromise rights in pursuit of security is what is driving us toward dictatorship, the President the most persuasive spokesperson for this argument.

Perhaps those who want gun control or who want the 99% not to get together is spreading overly shrill arguments

In Philly PA RichardKanePA


Most Muggers and hold up artists who shoot thought their lives dependent on it. Gang shoot outs that kill innocent people shoot wildly in fear of their lives. So self defense when someone has no business being where they are in fear of their lives is not legal self-defense.

Zimmerman's right to harass and threaten Trayvon somehow without even asking Trayvon what he was doing, was of a self-appointed town watch captain. As gun advocates remind us is someone wants a gun badly enough they will get it. Zimmerman proves that if someone badly wants to legally authority to harass threaten and even kill they will find a way to get it. Shame on all you for defending the right to kill by a self-appointed police official.

I personally don't think guns do much to protect our freedom. However the theory or mind-set that one must compromise freedom in pursuit of security is a huge threat to our freedom system.

Our President is a powerful spokesperson for the mindset of the need to compromise freedom for security.


In Philly PA RichardKanePA

I do not see George Zimmerman

I do not see George Zimmerman as a hero. But I don't believe he committed second degree murder either, and that was the charge the jury had to decide. The jury made the right decision. Jeesh, let's move on already.

It doesnt matter how the

It doesnt matter how the situation came about or who instigated it...the fact is that Zimmerman was getting beaten badly enough to feel his life was in danger. That is the situation, I am not saying that Zimmerman was right in escalating the situation....or that Martin was right in circling back to ambush Zimmerman....all I am saying is that there is REASONABLE DOUBT...thats it...that is all the law requires. The burden of proof is on the prosecution....they werent able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Zimmerman may well have been guilty. Martin had time to talk to his girlfriend on the phone but not the cops, Zimmerman may have been a crazy overzealous watchman...but none of that matters...all that matters is that there was reasonable doubt....and THAT is a victory for the rule of law and NOT for mob rule aka democracy.

i'm curious

does anyone know if the rescue story got any MSM play? i'm assuming fox ran it up the flagpole. the headline at huffington just said: zimmerman comes out of hiding, then you click to read the 2nd headline about the rescue. many there are convinced it was a planned event, a conspiracy no less.

Can't wait for this to die down.

So you make a post about it and argue race-obsessed lefty talking points all day....

Martin did not need to attack Zimmerman

Had he not, he would still be alive. Zimmerman never presented a thread to Martin. His gun was holstered when Martin went for it. Get over it. You're fanning the flames yourself.


i'll fan any flames that are burning walls of injustice

oh yeah, he went for the gun even though there was none of his DNA on the gun, and somehow the dying bloodied zimmerman was able to over power martin, pick up his gun and shoot him straight in the chest. now whatever, let's put that aside, i'm not here to go through all the holes in zimmermans story but as i did in the letter, i'll pretend zimmerman's defense was the whole the truth. the POINT i'm making is that zimmerman had it coming, and even if he was justified in killing martin in the moment, he still needs to be held accountable for instigating. and you're wrong martin clearly felt threatened by zimmerman.

Zimmerman had it coming?

There's your problem with your argument right there, the prosecution couldn't even prove that. Why did he have it coming? We're supposed to believe he was waving a holstered sidearm in Martin's face?

First rule of concealed carry, keep it concealed.
Second rule of concealed carry, see number one.

Zimmerman got what was coming to him because Martin couldn't hold a simple conversation with a stranger, tell him he was staying at his father's house, or "Dude, your creeping me out."?

No Martin DNA one the firearm proves nothing, especially after he smashed Zimmerman's head in the concrete, broke his nose, and told him he was going to "die tonight". I'd say Martin made his intent pretty clear to Zimmerman, and Zimmerman acted accordingly. What about Martin's social media that was not admitted into court, the ones about him spouting off about picking up a cheap handgun? Why buy one when you can just take it from a "white Hispanic" you just beat the crap out of?


Why aren't you focused on NSA, Gus?

Because that is how the media is distracting you. With this case. This trial with whatever happened doesn't effect you. Meanwhile the NSA is violating you and your neighbors' 4th amendment rights.

I am!

that's why i'm concerned about the DP's response to this case. all this pro-zimmerman rhetoric sounds too similar to NSA defenders--Zimmerman had a right to be following and watching him, in such an undignifying way, he was trying to keep his neighborhood safe! soon the Daily Paul will be supporting Stop and Frisk! or do you already do?

Quit fanning the flames!

He was found not guilty, get over it!

You're prejudice shines through your post in language like "Black people experience America very differently than people of other races do"

The truth is, everyone is free to see America how they want and the problem is that too many black people are either TAUGHT or CHOOSE to see america as a place where they are owed something special without earning it.

Those that make that choice and those who empathize with them are the true segregationists and are just as damaging as the racists.

what part of the evidence

what part of the evidence that clearly shows treyvon doublebacked to attack zimmerman and attacked zimmerman by eyewitness accounts and injuries and direction of the one bullet do you not understand?

Even the prosecutions witnesses backed up zimmermans story.

following someone is not a crime attacking someone is. Why are you so blinded by the evidence?

Ron Paul 2016

Look, I totally disagree...

First off let me say that if somebody was following me, and they thought I was suspicious, I would have turned around and ask, "Why are you following me?" and started a dialogue. If the follower was clearly advancing after I said that and was about to do harm, I would possibly run like hell and knock on a random door for help if I WASN'T armed!

You know, that can go a very long way to clear up any confusion about the possibility of Martin being a possible criminal, by actually asking the guy, "WHY ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME?!!"

But, a person with a thug mentality DOES NOT THINK THAT WAY!. Martin had other plans for the suspected "neighborhood watch" guy.

Secondly, I would have never tried to "jump" somebody because they were following me. That's going many steps beyond the necessary actions at that point. Martin just decided to escalate this thing to physical altercation, again ANOTHER SIGN OF A THUG MENTALITY!

And clearly Martin payed with his life for pulling such stunt.

So, from all that I see, Zimmerman actually cares about his neighbourhood while Martin cares about kicking the "living begezzers" out of Zimmerman because Martin is a thug.

I live in an area where crime is NOT uncommon. And I will tell you that I keep a close eye on suspicious people walking around also. We have a duty to secure our living area and surroundings.

Again, once Zimmerman's nose was broke, and I'm sure when your nose is broke you are going to be all "screwed" up.... You are probably going to want to shoot whoever is on top of you bashing your head in to the concrete trying to kill YOU!

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with what Zimmerman did.

Zimmerman has a right to surveil his neighbourhood, Martin had a right to walk through the neighbourhood, but Martin DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO INITIATE VIOLENCE against Zimmerman. Plain and simple.

As soon as Martin crossed that line, he put his OWN life on the line! Had Martin NOT BEEN OF THE THUG mentality, he would have most certainly survived the night without a scratch. But, thugs definitely don't think that way. Thugs think in a manner of vengeance and violence. And if you can understand that, then you can understand
WHY it is that Martin is dead. And it's NOT BECAUSE MARTIN WAS BLACK!!

Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

Faith in God will prevail all things!

i see your points, but you're still wrong

martin could have handled it better, but he has a right to protect himself from very obvious threats the way that he sees fit. he only escalated it to violence after zimmerman continued to follow him. zimmerman had slowed his car then stopped his car and watched him and then drove up to him and watched him, then got out to look at him on foot, all of this with no one else around and at night. this is threatening aggressive behavior. he did not identify himself to martin as neighborhood watchman.

I liked your post

Thanks for the perspective.

Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."



I didn't

I thought it sucked.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein


I beginning to think people are "more upset" over the fact that Zimmerman profiled a black hoodie wearing youth as a "thug", and the fact that Zimmerman's assessment was accurate.
It's one o'clock in the morning and you're walking home from a friends house a few blocks away...Now, who would you rather cross paths with? A (wanna be) cop type who is armed, and lives in the neighborhood, or a (wanna be) hoodie wearing thug type who has a history of beating people up?
Did I mention the hoodie wearer is capable of killing you with his bear hands, has been in trouble at school for fighting, and recently was in a rehab center for troubled youths?

Zimmerman has a history of violence

Arrested for assaulting a police officer and his ex gf had a protection order on him. It doesn't natter if TM is a thug in general, bcuz Zimmerman was the thug that night, who was following whom?

you are correct. 8 years prior he was accused of assaulting a

Police officer, the actual charges were “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,”. Due to dash board camera's Zimmerman's charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence”, and the restraining order of the girl friend when Zimmerman was 20 is proof of nothing, since they filed orders of protection from each other, and she never pursued charges, only used it as a means to file the order. Lets not forget that the main stream has also pointed out that Zimmerman was charged with speeding in 2006, not on fruity drank, but in a car. The case was dismissed when the officer failed to show up in court.

So while Zimmerman likely pulled away while being handcuffed and charged, the other claims you make are as ridiculous. 9 years ago Zimmerman drank alcohol, and his actions reflect that, but no violence, no racism, no proof of beating his girlfriend as you would have us believe. Still emotion is shining through, but without real evidence of the demon you want so badly to create.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

Let's take a look at

your theory. Listen again to the testimony of Rachel Jeantel. She places Martin outside his father's girlfriend's house during the time they're on the telephone.

Get a map of the development. The girlfriend's house is located at the back of the development. Zimmerman's car was parked near the pool and mailbox area. These two areas are approximately 70 yards apart.

For your theory to hold any water, for the evidence to show Zimmerman as the aggressor, the incident would take place near Martin's father's girlfriend's house, which we know it didn't. The incident took place near Zimmerman's car, approximately 70 yards from where Jeantel places Martin at the time of the altercation.

Who was the aggressor?

concern troll

...is concerned

A signature used to be here!

Says the person trolling

Says the person trolling

Whats with the negative votes?

This is a good letter explaining a feasible perspective. This letter clearly shows the "gray area" of the law, the situation, and the response. This is exactly why it was a perfect set of facts to polarize the country. You are right. Dps need to see this and let it go...don't fall into this trap, there are so many other "real" issues facing this country


this is not a grey area. The law was clear and this trial wasn't even close. The only grey area is the way it was portrayed in the media, by racists, who wish to turn a garden variety self defense case into some kind of civil rights issue.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein