-50 votes

concerned letter from a distraught member, re: trayvon martin

Dear DailyPaul.com:

About me: I have been supporting Ron Paul since 2007 and before that I was a brainwashed neo-con supporter. The Daily Paul has been an essential website in my awakening into being and solidification as a libertarian. I don’t often post but I have in the past, most recently the Monday after the George Zimmerman verdict.

I cant wait for the attention on the Trayvon Martin case to die down. The trial has been used as a means to divide the populous, which partisans are taking advantage of to solidify the legitimacy and growth of the state.

Additionally, I want the attention to go away because the Daily Paul’s participation in the spectacle has astounded me. Not only do your reactions support a police state mentality, your exaltation of Zimmerman and celebration of the verdict have been drenched in demagoguery and unwarranted harshness. You are actively contributing to the divide of the people and falling on the side of tyranny.

Regardless of whatever stories or “facts” you believe in surrounding the death of Martin, there are certain truths that cannot be denied that place Zimmerman as a violator of liberty. Firstly, let us all agree, that self defense is a pillar of liberty. Had Zimmerman been just strolling down the street minding his own business and been attacked by Martin out of the blue, without a doubt Zimmerman would be justified in killing him. Of course this was not the case, but let us give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt and pretend that the story his defense used during the trial is the complete, truthful account of events. Zimmerman was driving in his car and saw Martin walking down the street. Zimmerman slows down and starts following him at night, in the rain. Martin sees that Zimmerman was looking at him and continues towards his destination. Zimmerman doesn’t say “excuse me young man, I want to talk to you.” He doesn’t even say “hey what are you doing?!” Zimmerman pulls his car over and keeps an eye on Martin. He then drives towards Martin again. No one else is around. Martin, taking a short cut, is able to get out of the site of Zimmerman. Zimmerman stops his car, gets out and continues to follow Martin on foot. This is aggressive behavior! After perceiving the escalating threat, Martin, a young man not an old woman, decides to confront this stranger who has been following him back to his home. After strategically positioning himself, Martin, taking no more risks, launches his attack. Zimmerman, unable to fend for himself, takes out his gun and shoots Martin dead.

No matter how you spin it, Zimmerman was the instigator. Had he not been following Martin, the 17 year old would have made it home safely. Zimmerman, even if he was well-intended, handled the situation with no respect towards Martin’s dignity as a person. Not only did he profile Trayvon based on his appearance, he treated him as though he were already guilty of a crime. This attitude is repugnant to a free society. Because of his misdeeds, a young man was shot dead, perhaps Zimmerman is not guilty of second degree murder, but how can you think the law should not hold him at least partially responsible? Let me get this straight: you can threaten someone, and when they fight you, you can just shoot them if you are loosing and get away scot-free? (such provocative behavior by a CC-er will surely be capitalized by the gun control crowd, after all it’s much less likely that Zimmerman would have gotten out of the car and followed Martin had he not had a gun)

Alas, to my horror, too many Daily Paul users think not just that, but also deem Zimmerman a hero, a great citizen and man. One person declared they wished Zimmerman would be neighborhood watch of his neighborhood!?! (apparently killing someone who is staying inside the gated community you are supposed to protect is a sign of good watchman-ship) This is a man who never became the cop he dreamed of being, so instead he carries a gun around and chronically reports things to the police. He is a self-appointed neighborhood watchman! These are the qualities of a man hungry for power and looking for trouble. I’m sure he’ll get a job offering at the NSA in a few years.

Moreover, the Daily Paul response has been toe-in-line with the talking points of the right-wing when it comes to the issues of drugs and race. You’d think these folks have never heard Ron Paul denounce drug-war propaganda or racial discrimination. Too many of you are participating in the vilification of this dead teenager based on selected internet posts and marijuana use! Also astonishing is the completely unnuanced and insensitive dismissal of the relevance of Martin’s race to the national discussion. Astonishingly, those of you who declare Martin’s race irrelevant are also the same ones attempting to legitimize Zimmerman’s actions because Martin fit the profile of wanted criminals, of which being black was an essential ingredient. He was being profiled and followed because he was young black man wearing a hoodie, forget the fact that it’s February and raining and the 21st century and the gated community has a significant population of black people. I mean it’s not like Trayvon was walking around a village in North Dakota where black people are only seen on television. Then many of you troll, “well Zimmerman is half-Hispanic so..” as if Hispanics can’t be racist. It’s not about Zimmerman’s race and it’s not about whether he is a racist, it’s about Martin’s race and whether it is just another coincidence that a young black male has been presumed to be criminal and shot dead for it. Black people experience America very differently than people of other races do. Martin’s death became a national story; it took on a higher meaning for black people—because they know all too well what it means to be looked at walking down a street and deemed suspicious. And they are frigging tired of it and they have a right to be! Your inability to understand that is atrocious. What’s next? Will they Daily Paul mock people in the Islamic world for protesting US imperialism?

When I tried to make these points, I was met with vitriolic denunciations and name-calling. Among other things, I was accused a “Democrat,” an “idiot” and an Al Sharpton echoer. I was not personally offended, just very disappointed: this close-minded hostility does not belong on the DailyPaul! These are the very “mob-rule” tactics that you denounce the left for adopting. Both sides are guilty of demagoguery and manipulation. As libertarians, we ought to transcend the partisan fray. We ought to understand both sides and point out the truth in both. We ought to frame the issue in Natural Law. We ought to protect the second amendment by punishing those who abuse it. We need not buy into the racial politics of the left but we ought to acknowledge the legitimacy of the origins of their grievances. And we ought to always insist on the dignity of the individual as an individual. You may still be glad Zimmerman was acquitted, but don’t pretend that it would be un-libertarian to think otherwise.

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laws are seldom clear

once you apply the facts

during the few minutes that the "stand your ground" law was activated, there were only two witnesses and one is dead --- everyone who takes one side or the other on this issue is making assumptions

and yes the jury gets to decide....unfortunately, jurors make mistakes too :)

this is hilarious - this letter takes no side, just describes some perspective and he gets hammered...unbelieveable

you make no sense

this was not a stand your ground case. It was a self defense case.

Stand your ground was discussed pre trial as a basis for a motion to dismiss that was never filed.

Know your facts.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

thats the law, not the facts

both laws have been presented by the media as a basis for the public discussion --- I am simply supporting this letter as a reasonable perspective without calling names or making lewd comments btw

The only way

the author's perspective can be deemed reasonable is if the author ignores the evidence. Having nothing to do with the facts, this letter is just someone's version of drama.

slow there huh?

the facts of your analysis include what law was applied at trial. You were wrong. Get it? How bout now? Now?

And since when do we owe a duty to consider what has "been presented by the media" for discussion? Sounds like yuo are for more sheeple, not less!

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein


apparently the DP is evolving into an intolerant community. Wouldn't want you to get more downvotes for being diplomatic.


'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

I have noticed, and am proud of the dailypauls intolerance

Of lies and unjustified attacks, false realities, and misleading, manipulated evidence. Intolerant perhaps of differing political ideologies, but not of outright lies and deception, falsehoods, and ridiculous fabrications of reality. I have never been so proud of the members at the DP.com, for defending the right to self defense and self preservation. It is a shame that a small minority take the mainstream media's word over a jury of ones peers who lived the trial, every ounce of evidence, weighed it, and found Zimmerman not guilty. Had they done so, it could have caused the next CC holder to hesitate, and in doing so possibly allowing harm to their selves or their family.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

downvotes don't scare me



oooh what are you, some kind of internet tough guy? ROFL

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Self defense is a real issue

Stand your ground laws, the right of self defense, and ccw were all under attack during this trial. Don't you dare trivialize this issue by saying it's all a distraction.

If someone is acting suspicious around my home I'll see where they go and follow them if need be. If they attack me and i fear for my life, i'll do what I have to do. This is more nanny statism saying what Zimmerman did was outside the bounds of what he should have done, he should have "let the police handle it" bullshit. It's my property and my life I'll do what I need to do and not depend on the state to do it for me.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

You are right

Those laws were under attack, this issue is being capitalized by statists. That's why I think it's important to be critical of GZ while defending the 2nd amendment.

you go right ahead

and if someone follows me due to the fact that they think I am acting suspiciously I guess I have the right to protest myself as well---jeez

I am NOT attacking, taking a side, implying that the "police should handle it," or anything else for that matter and neither is this letter.

It is simply perspective based on a myriad of possible facts

Protest yourself all day long if you like, just do not commit a

Violent act towards someone who has not done the same to you. It is the non aggression principle that Ron Paul speaks so highly of. Protesting is much better than prostituting for the main stream of lies.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

Not enough verifiable

Not enough verifiable information to prove or disprove the he said she said comments i dominantly see, for BOTH sides

I believe in self defence, but i also DONT believe common placency persecution actions based on what you look like or how you act, that itself can and rightly so, cause a situation, where a situation never would have occured, its the road to conformation, if this is not at least recognised, where a future generation will sub conciensly have to act and dress a certain way in order to avoid hassle, in my mind, something that is trully suspicious, i would like for that person to recognise it and change it by themselves, not to conform, but because they care, the other alternative is to force it, which means we'll just keep on going and continue the cycle......im not saying its the easy route, anything but, i think it is the hardest one imaginable, unless something big unexpectly comes along, i also believe that it is the route where we start trusting one another, on an individual level, regardless of background, regardless of nation, our family, our friends, our fellow human beings, i do not claim it a 1 week project, i see it as a start so that future generations can have something better, something that isnt what we have today......i dont expect change in our generation, but i would be happy if our generation really vamped up the recognition of it, the pre-course to change.......how can you change if by default, we see nothing wrong, i believe that EVERYONE needs it, not just some people

Im basing this on a theoretical situation, not on something i did not see with my own two eyes, i dont think ill ever "side" with either side on this, unless, maybe, somehow we get video evidence leading up to , and to the, actuall death

Forgive my presumtious writing style, im not expecting to be right, its just how i believe it.


you are seeing this from a higher perspective.

higher perspective

as in your head is higher up your rearmost sphincter

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-- Albert Einstein

Keep reaching higher, then you can see a narative

That only the anti 2nd amendment folks can see. The jury, procecutor, nor anyone else during the trial saw the slanderous ideals posted. Yet no answer from any of them as to why they see things the way they do. Challenge them and name calling starts without any backing for their opinions turned fact.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

empowered citizen

Took action to protect his neighborhood and did not wait for police to do the job. Personal responsibility. The enemies of liberty are on the other side lead by the fascist race baiter Obama.


Do you think Zimmerman should have at least said something to Trayvon when he was following/watching him? Zimmerman said on the phone that Trayvon saw him, was checking him out, and even walked towards him....What kind of person does not roll down the window and ask him what is up - if he needs something - or if he lives there??? According to his police call and story, he had multiple opportunities to safely communicate with Trayvon but he never did.

Trayvon and Zimmerman were both idiots. Zimmerman is not a good libertarian example of personal responsibility. And someone who sympathizes with black community or laments the loss of life is not necessarily an "enemy of liberty"

I sure as hell don't

You don't confront someone who is a perceived threat.
You watch, you listen you pay attention.
His interrogation of Martin could have been seen as argumentative and starting the fight, and thus Zimmerman would have been culpable.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

Just stop making excuses for

Just stop making excuses for Trayvon. And the what ifs and buts about what George should of said or didn't say. None of us were there and without watching the trial very closely you would be brainwashed by the media in their twilight-zone coverage of this mess...

When George was parked in his car talking to the 9/11 dispatcher, Trayvon came up to and circled George's car while having his hand stuffed in his waistband in a threatening manner. You can hear Trayvon talking shit to George in the phone recordings played back in court.

George didn't want to confront this dude in any way. Why say anything to someone who is acting violent?

It wasn't until Trayvon disappeared from sight that George got out of his vehicle in order to get an exact address for police that were already in route.

At this time Trayvon "according to Jeantel's testimony" made it home and then returned to jump George back at the "T" area about 25 yards away from George's vehicle and at least 100 yards away from Terri Martins Girlfriends unit..

I think there is a need to

I think there is a need to understand that libertarians are not some kind of special enlightened or 'awake' group of people. They are just a set of people who subscribe to the general idea of limiting the powers of the govt.

As such, they tend to be people who have special reasons for not wanting govt involved in their lives. Invariably, this includes ideas frowned upon by the civilized world such as racial segregation, drug use etc. As these ideas are prominent to an outsider, they label the whole philosophy racist and based on drug legalization.

This opposition and labeling tends to trigger a certain denialism and closing of ranks among followers of the libertarian philosophy. This further alienates them from outsiders. Thus they remain a small group without exceptional political clout, rising now and then on the back of giants such as Ron Paul, but never able to become the dominant philosophy because of legitimate fears that without a central set of 'acceptable' ideas/norms/ laws, society may crumble.

Vitriol & intolerance isn't a libertarian principle

@GUS818 - I appreciate your post. The vitriol and bashing thats been expressed in recent days regarding the Zimmerman case is staggering and crystallized this truth... the DP site appears to be infested with trolls ....or possibly something more sinister...

Unless, could it really be, sheep's going baa baa?

Those libertarians on the DP who do wish to take part in a rational debate based within the principles and values of the libertarian perspective, are seemingly being drowned out by inflammatory, lazy and venomous intolerance whose only purpose appears to be to incite...NOT to unite...

The Zimmerman case is a perfect opportunity for the power elite to further widen the divide (whether it be by race, class, religion or power structure) and to further fracture and hypnotize the masses. Distract, divide and conquer seems to be a success of the MSM mouthpiece...

I decided to delete my account after witnessing the level of venom and ignorance being expressed on this site.....I was shocked to find there appears to be no way of deleting a DP account...I had to email a Mod and I am waiting to hear back...that seem's kind of cultish to me...all in all...more turned off by the DP everyday...

Nice try, now why dont you answer the question...

Why did Martin not go into his fathers home, and instead pursue Zimmerman? Answer that as no one else has had the courage to do. If Zimmerman's following martin was the only catalyst in his death, then why not discuss the possibility that Martin turned the tide and started following Zimmerman, confronted him, and reacted violently?

We know Zimmerman lost Martin, and we know during this time Martin was within 30 seconds of his fathers house, then how did Martin end up further from his fathers house and fighting with Zimmerman?

If you are ignorant enough to claim that stating facts versus fiction is inciting intolerance, I say you have it completely backwards. Farewell, and better luck at the KOS or Huffpo, where the race baters and story makers go to name call and stand for the left wing media spin.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

The whole profile crap is....

....ridiculous I profile while I drive....."I think that person is going to do something stupid" If they don't...Yay! I live! If they live up to my low expectations, Yay, I was prepared! And hopefully live!!

I am sooooooo bad. You have a problem with that?


Really guy ,
you sure did type alot ,

I will save myself the trouble


read that article and get back to me

I follow the news all day and that is probably the best article
I've read all damn day about this. Seriously with facts and notations.
This guy does his homework.
I am almost interested in actually reading a book called "white girl bleed alot" because of this article.

"He's this eccentric Ghandi-Like figure that you cant touch with the normal bribes that people respond to."
the man Doug Wead on DR. RON PAUL

bookmarked to read later Ghost, but remember that

The trolls here posting this garbage are not interested in truth, only steering the narrative and calling anyone that disagree's with them a racist, and as with the synopsis of the shooting, it was all based on Zimmerman following and murdering a black kid. So from this, they are following the media meme that all white males with a concealed permit are racist murderers. This is the anti 2nd amendment group, perhaps; judging by the time spent on the DP they were disenfranchised Liberals that supported Paul at one time for civil liberties, but have now come out of the woodwork to work against the 2nd amendment.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

Right now this is the most

Right now this is the most truthful post on the DP.

Following and observing

Being followed and observed by someone in public is a legitimate grounds to lose them by hiding, wait for them to get close, then expose your hiding place to attack them? That is a Libertarian approach? I don't get that reasoning.

I've been followed before. Sure it made me feel creepy and I was very much on my guard. But initiating violence didn't even occur to me as a Libertarian. The importance of defending myself (should I be attacked) was certainly paramount, but not starting the violence. And certainly not waiting in hiding on them so I could launch a sneak attack. That's Libertarian?

Someone stop me if I'm wrong here, but haven't we heard this type of reasoning before to justify initiating coercion against others. Kind of sounds like preemptive war mentality.
"We believe they have dangerous weapons and may use them against us. Attack!"

I respect you GUS, but your reasoning on this point is flawed, in my opinion.

good points!

this is an argument i can respect. going on the war analogy: yes, the japanese were wrong to attack pearl harbor, but when you see the wheeling and dealings of the FDR administration against the Japanese government--you'll understand that they felt threatened by the US. so yes the US was right to retaliate (but with an atomic bomb..?) but don't be so foolish as to think that the US doesn't hold any culpability in starting the fight. Also, trayvon made it pretty clear by his behavior that he didnt like GZ following him and felt threatened by him (Martin's confronting and going over to his car is not exactly the behavior of a "burglar" leaving a crime scene--why would he make himself more visible?) as the FDR administration was aware that the japanese were planning an attack, GZ knew Martin was saying "i don't like what you're doing back off or else"

when you take the bird's eye view, you have to criticize Zimmerman.