-51 votes

concerned letter from a distraught member, re: trayvon martin

Dear DailyPaul.com:

About me: I have been supporting Ron Paul since 2007 and before that I was a brainwashed neo-con supporter. The Daily Paul has been an essential website in my awakening into being and solidification as a libertarian. I don’t often post but I have in the past, most recently the Monday after the George Zimmerman verdict.

I cant wait for the attention on the Trayvon Martin case to die down. The trial has been used as a means to divide the populous, which partisans are taking advantage of to solidify the legitimacy and growth of the state.

Additionally, I want the attention to go away because the Daily Paul’s participation in the spectacle has astounded me. Not only do your reactions support a police state mentality, your exaltation of Zimmerman and celebration of the verdict have been drenched in demagoguery and unwarranted harshness. You are actively contributing to the divide of the people and falling on the side of tyranny.

Regardless of whatever stories or “facts” you believe in surrounding the death of Martin, there are certain truths that cannot be denied that place Zimmerman as a violator of liberty. Firstly, let us all agree, that self defense is a pillar of liberty. Had Zimmerman been just strolling down the street minding his own business and been attacked by Martin out of the blue, without a doubt Zimmerman would be justified in killing him. Of course this was not the case, but let us give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt and pretend that the story his defense used during the trial is the complete, truthful account of events. Zimmerman was driving in his car and saw Martin walking down the street. Zimmerman slows down and starts following him at night, in the rain. Martin sees that Zimmerman was looking at him and continues towards his destination. Zimmerman doesn’t say “excuse me young man, I want to talk to you.” He doesn’t even say “hey what are you doing?!” Zimmerman pulls his car over and keeps an eye on Martin. He then drives towards Martin again. No one else is around. Martin, taking a short cut, is able to get out of the site of Zimmerman. Zimmerman stops his car, gets out and continues to follow Martin on foot. This is aggressive behavior! After perceiving the escalating threat, Martin, a young man not an old woman, decides to confront this stranger who has been following him back to his home. After strategically positioning himself, Martin, taking no more risks, launches his attack. Zimmerman, unable to fend for himself, takes out his gun and shoots Martin dead.

No matter how you spin it, Zimmerman was the instigator. Had he not been following Martin, the 17 year old would have made it home safely. Zimmerman, even if he was well-intended, handled the situation with no respect towards Martin’s dignity as a person. Not only did he profile Trayvon based on his appearance, he treated him as though he were already guilty of a crime. This attitude is repugnant to a free society. Because of his misdeeds, a young man was shot dead, perhaps Zimmerman is not guilty of second degree murder, but how can you think the law should not hold him at least partially responsible? Let me get this straight: you can threaten someone, and when they fight you, you can just shoot them if you are loosing and get away scot-free? (such provocative behavior by a CC-er will surely be capitalized by the gun control crowd, after all it’s much less likely that Zimmerman would have gotten out of the car and followed Martin had he not had a gun)

Alas, to my horror, too many Daily Paul users think not just that, but also deem Zimmerman a hero, a great citizen and man. One person declared they wished Zimmerman would be neighborhood watch of his neighborhood!?! (apparently killing someone who is staying inside the gated community you are supposed to protect is a sign of good watchman-ship) This is a man who never became the cop he dreamed of being, so instead he carries a gun around and chronically reports things to the police. He is a self-appointed neighborhood watchman! These are the qualities of a man hungry for power and looking for trouble. I’m sure he’ll get a job offering at the NSA in a few years.

Moreover, the Daily Paul response has been toe-in-line with the talking points of the right-wing when it comes to the issues of drugs and race. You’d think these folks have never heard Ron Paul denounce drug-war propaganda or racial discrimination. Too many of you are participating in the vilification of this dead teenager based on selected internet posts and marijuana use! Also astonishing is the completely unnuanced and insensitive dismissal of the relevance of Martin’s race to the national discussion. Astonishingly, those of you who declare Martin’s race irrelevant are also the same ones attempting to legitimize Zimmerman’s actions because Martin fit the profile of wanted criminals, of which being black was an essential ingredient. He was being profiled and followed because he was young black man wearing a hoodie, forget the fact that it’s February and raining and the 21st century and the gated community has a significant population of black people. I mean it’s not like Trayvon was walking around a village in North Dakota where black people are only seen on television. Then many of you troll, “well Zimmerman is half-Hispanic so..” as if Hispanics can’t be racist. It’s not about Zimmerman’s race and it’s not about whether he is a racist, it’s about Martin’s race and whether it is just another coincidence that a young black male has been presumed to be criminal and shot dead for it. Black people experience America very differently than people of other races do. Martin’s death became a national story; it took on a higher meaning for black people—because they know all too well what it means to be looked at walking down a street and deemed suspicious. And they are frigging tired of it and they have a right to be! Your inability to understand that is atrocious. What’s next? Will they Daily Paul mock people in the Islamic world for protesting US imperialism?

When I tried to make these points, I was met with vitriolic denunciations and name-calling. Among other things, I was accused a “Democrat,” an “idiot” and an Al Sharpton echoer. I was not personally offended, just very disappointed: this close-minded hostility does not belong on the DailyPaul! These are the very “mob-rule” tactics that you denounce the left for adopting. Both sides are guilty of demagoguery and manipulation. As libertarians, we ought to transcend the partisan fray. We ought to understand both sides and point out the truth in both. We ought to frame the issue in Natural Law. We ought to protect the second amendment by punishing those who abuse it. We need not buy into the racial politics of the left but we ought to acknowledge the legitimacy of the origins of their grievances. And we ought to always insist on the dignity of the individual as an individual. You may still be glad Zimmerman was acquitted, but don’t pretend that it would be un-libertarian to think otherwise.




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A Reply

There is an ontological difference between coercion (violence, or the threat thereof) and poor choices in ones actions in relation to others. One can come across as rude, snobbish, obtuse, impolite, disrespectful, discriminatory or any number of other unfriendly ways without be coercive. But none of these justifies the initiation of coercion by a person insulted by rudeness, snobbishness or any of the others.

I certainly have no problem leveling some criticism at Zimmerman. As a Libertarian, it is not an instinct to follow people in public. Yet I also have no problem with local communities utilizing citizens to help watch over their particular neighborhoods to prevent criminal activity. Sometimes that might involve keeping an eye on people you don't know. It does not mean acting in a threatening manor or even confronting them when no crime has been committed.

You are alarmed by members here treating Zimmerman as a hero. I will admit I am behind the curve on this one. I really haven't seen much hero worship of Zimmerman in these pages. That's not to say it hasn't happened, only to say it hasn't really jumped out at me as it has you. But here you want to merely state that Zimmerman deserves some criticism, as if you are simply trying to be less onesided on the incident. Your letter goes beyond that, in my opinion. It seems rather one sided on your part to write about Martin as being innocent of any significant errors, while admitting that he probably did assault Zimmerman. Its as if you are saying that Martin's asault on Zimmerman was justified. It seems you want to turn Zimmerman into a personification of State coercion, and Martin into a freedom fighter. This is the way you come across, rightly perceived or not.

ecorob's picture

Looks like you need a little more schooling...

sit back, shut up, and read quietly to yourself for two MORE years before you post any more stupid nonsense.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Civil

And being discourteous is just as bad

I fell asleep after the first

I fell asleep after the first paragraph

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

wow

Apparently dailypaul folks see that as a positive

beat dat

horse - more cowbell

Im shocked..

I've stayed out of this issue as best I could. -30 votes?!?!?

WTF is going on here??

A young kid is dead because of piss poor decisions by two people.

I understand where you are coming from and I thought the DP was a more compassionate community. The amount of negative comments has me speechless.

6' tall, 200 lbs and A KID!!!

There are no winners in this. Everyone lost. Including those spewing such hateful venom.

NO WONDER WHY LIBERTARIANS GET A HEARTLESS RAP!!!!

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

ecorob's picture

Beofe you say anything else...

I suggest you look at the diagram of the path that GZ and TM took that night after GZ spotted him and before their paths crossed.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

strange

I find the whole thing strange indeed. There is absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE that Trayvon started the fight - for all we know, Zimmerman could have chased him and threatened him.

For a movement based on reason, freedom, and natural rights - i would think this case would be a nonstarter or show compassion on both sides...However that is not the case.

Neocons say Trayvon started it because he has used drugs in his history or something (an argument that we should find nonsensical). At the same time, neocons ignore the zimmermans domestic violence issues, his reported 46 calls to police department over 8 years regarding suspicious black people, and his career ambitions of becoming a cop (this is the MOST suspicious)....So why not look at both sides? Isnt that what we are supposed to do? How in the world can a rational person judge one side or the other?

LMAO, "Neocons say", this should tell you all you need to know

About the rational among the anti self defense crowd. Following here following there, profiling a hoody or skin color, the bottom line is this issue came down to a physical confrontation, violence in response to a non violent act, and the only evidence we have from Zimmerman's head and face, to an eyewitness, to the lack of bruises on Martins face or body, is that Martin was the aggressor.

We can speculate all we want, but all we have to go by is the evidence. While both Martin and Zimmerman made stupid mistakes such as Martin not going home and coming back to find Zimmerman, to Zimmerman getting out of his car, the bottom line is that nothing is relevant until the violent act took place, and all we are saying is that you cannot attack someone for doing something you "do not like".

As far as I have read compassion has been shown for both sides, but the majority is speaking out against those that are putting things into the story line that are fabricated, and people are calling them on it. Yet not one has has been able to reply to a single challenge to provide evidence of their fabricated story. They have called any that support the verdict as racist, which shows their motive of taking the left wing narrative and demanding everyone accept it as fact, even though there is no evidence pointing to this other than Sharpton doing the same trying to fuel anger and hatred in the black community which is unfounded. Blaming Whites for the evidence that was presented, calling whites racist because a Hispanic male shot a black dude. It is not a matter of compassion, it is a matter of reality which from the posts has escaped the pro Martin crowd.

it is terrible that this event even occurred, and those that are continuing the race bating are only making the matters worse as they cannot accept the verdict, nor anyone that agrees with said verdict.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

ecorob's picture

quit watching tv...

and look at the diagram I mentioned above.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Uh huh

I have seen the map, thank you very much - in spite of you not providing a reference.

You seem to indicate the map is evidence of something but what it says to me is that when zimmerman went to supposedly find a street sign, he went the same way as trayvon went, which doesnt make sense when you look at the map

http://www.hlntv.com/interactive/2013/06/17/zimmerman-trayvo...

Dude...

...I also heard that before the cops showed up, Z had a campfire going. His plans were to eat M with the paws of freshly stomped kittens. Then Z was going to open a black hole and destroy the planet earth!

LOL

This is the best post I've ever read on the subject!!

?

The BEST post? So you prefer lies and non-factual arguments? When someone makes a legitimate point, the solution is to reply sarcastically without a shred of decency????

Yea, sure..

That's it! Oh, wait, no it's not. Facts vs. lies? I watched at least 90% of the trial. Most people that are so sure of the "facts" did not watch any of the trial yet they argue one position or the other as if they actually know the truth. It gets old reading and/or listening to all of the people that don't know what they are talking about and let emotion run wild. So, yea, I loved the post above. It did a great job of making fun of the vilification of Mr. Zimmerman based on lies, distortions and emotion - truth be damned!

I would think that Ron Paul

I would think that Ron Paul supporters would discourage the use of sarcasm and low-brow humor when someone else makes a serious point....That is in fact what is done to us on a regular basis.

And I think that....

you're a dork. You appear to be willfully ignorant. One can cure ignorance with a little desire and research. However, if one refuses the cure for ignorance, on is WILLFULLY ignorant and that's just plain stupid. So, in short, you are a stupid dork.

I tried to click on the upvote 100 times Will, but it will only

Allow one vote per.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

Duplicate

Duplicate

Also....

...they didn't mention GZ standing up to the police for what he thought was racial discrimination against a minority in his town. They didn't mention he and his wife were mentoring two black boys, his neighbors, because the father was in prison. No mention of his business adventure with a black man.

Yea, GZ is a racist.

You people are fucking stupid to bring race into this. YOU are the problem. Listen to one side.

you didn't read my letter

i said clearly it's not about zimmerman being a racist. it's about young black men being considered "suspicious" constantly all over this country.

but about GZ, yea his ex wanted a restraining order on him and he was arrested for assaulting a police officer. http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/03/zimmerman-accused-o...

but trayvon's the thug because he smokes weed and listens to rap music

Nope

Nope, never heard any of that. If you provide the links i will read them

If you didn't hear about it...

Then you obviously have not attempted to sort out fact vs. fiction. There is A LOT of information out there - some of it even TRUE. All you have to do is TRY to look for it. Yes, Z DID stand up (against the Sanford Police Department) for a black man that was beaten by some thugs and got no justice and yes, Z DID mentor two black children and, yes, Z DID provide help and comfort to a black neighbor that was a victim of a home invasion. All of the REAL evidence in this case paints a picture of a man that was truly color-blind and tried his best to help people and get involved (regardless of race). Of course, I'm talking about REAL evidence vs. the manufactured image that Martin's (so called) parents and their attorney tried to put out there about Z being a (white) racist.

As a matter of a fact, the evidence is pretty strong that Martin's mother didn't give two shits about him while he was alive and his bed-hopping father certainly didn't care much about being a father or a family man (cheated on and divorced the real mother and then cheated on and divorced the only woman that acted like a mother to Martin). If you look for it, you'll find the real story behind the downfall and death of Martin and you'll see that it begins with his father divorcing the step mother that cared about him and sending Martin to live with the real mother that didn't care about him. That's when he started using drugs (including "lean" that has serious mind-altering side effects that include paranoia and violent tendencies).

There's talk here about how libertarians should not point out or care about Martin's use of drugs. Yea, we think the "war on drugs" is terrible and that drugs should be legalized. However, we ALSO think that a person is accountable for his/her actions regardless of what they put in their body and we recognize that a person can become impaired to the point of acting irrationally and, if they do, they alone are responsible for the outcome. The drugs DO factor in. Just like with alcohol. Alcohol is legal but, if a person gets in a car crash and kills another person as a result of being impaired, they are STILL criminally responsible. We point to Martin's drug abuse, not to say that he was evil for using drugs but, instead, to make the argument that he used mind altering chemicals that impaired his judgment and, likely, made him think that Zimmerman was a threat to him and caused him to violently attack Zimmerman leaving Zimmerman with no choice but to protect himself with deadly force. Cause and effect assholes! Cause and effect!

You are not a very nice

You are not a very nice person. I am shocked that someone like yourself would be interested in ideas of Ron Paul

Yea.....

....showing the truth about someone is horrible because it doesn't fit your idea of what is going on.... I'm so bad

Thats right Chuck, your a meany because you do nat accept

Lies. You do not accept fabrications as the main story line, and when you call people out on it expect to get a reasonable response why they feel like they do, errrrrr I mean, be called a name. There is no one backing what they say, only rejecting the notion that emotion is why they all fabricate evidence that does not exist. Before it is said, I am a meany too.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

No, i say that because you

No, i say that because you act like a total jerk and do not listen

Why?

The world is flat! The world is flat! Why won't anyone listen to me?!?! They are going to fall off the planet if they sail in that direction!!

Why would anyone listen to you? You don't KNOW anything. If we listen to you, it will make us dumber. That's not the direction most of us want to go in ya goober...