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If and when

If and when circumstances are under voluntary conditions, anarchists can believe in anything.

Asclepius's picture

True Rationale for the American Revolution...

[According to Benjamin] Franklin, the order and decorum of Indian councils were important to them because their government relied on public opinion:

‘All their Government is by Counsel of the Sages; there is no Force, there are no Prisons, no officers to compel Obedience, or inflict Punishment.’

Indian leaders study oratory and the best speaker had the most influence, Franklin observed. In words that would be echoed by Jefferson, Franklin used the Indian model as an exemplar of government with a minimum of governance. This sort of democracy was governed not by fiat, but by public opinion and consensus-creating custom:

‘All of the Indians of North America not under the dominion of the Spaniards are in that natural state, being restrained by no laws, having no Courts, or Ministers of Justice, no Suits, no Prisons, no Governors vested with any Legal Authority. The Persuasion of Men distinguished by Reputation of Wisdom is the only means by which others are govern'd or rather led -- and the State of the Indians was probably the first State of all Nations.’

Excerpt From:
FORGOTTEN FOUNDERS: Benjamin Franklin, the Iroquois and the Rationale for the American Revolution (1982) By Bruce E. Johansen
Read the book online here for free:

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery; none but ourselves can free our minds. - Bob Marley


sex pistols endorse ron paul

I hate lables they give stupid people

a tool. I to do not give up my freedom. Dictators will dictate but they will never get my willing consent. My individual sovereignty is natural and I was born with it. Since then governments have and are trying to do everything and anything to claim that I am their slave, subject, tax payer, citizen, etc.. Still I am only me and I am not in support or agreement with anyone that thinks they are my leader. I am my leader.

PS other than the label I do agree with you. The best government is NO government. All governments are dictators who self enrich by theft extortion murder and every other concievable evil.


Welcome, you've arrived to the only logical conclusion

The initiation of violence is wrong.

Congrats! Welcome to the club

Congrats! Welcome to the club lol

Logic prevails :)


I would have said the opposite.

NOTE: I am not advocating violence in any way. The content of the post is for intellectual, theoretical, and philosophical discussion. FEDS, please don't come to my house.

No no, the RED pill.

No no, the RED pill.

tasmlab's picture


Congrats! Three cheers for anarchy.

I'm not sure I'd hang my argument on the Native Americans. They seemed to maintain a subsistence level economy and lived in tents. Their apparent lack of government might of just be included in their apparent lack of anything.

And, as someone alludes to below, one might make the case that a government, replete with guns and a formal army, would've been handy in stopping the rich white men who came and killed them off and stole their land.

Currently consuming: Morehouse's "Better off free", FDR; Wii U; NEP Football

"The native Americans" is a

"The native Americans" is a pretty blanket term. There were many tribes. Most of them were savage, violent, and did have some kind of hierarchical rule over their flock. Most of them were not some peaceful loving anarchist hippies. Not to knock anarchism. I consider myself one. I want anarchism in the world. If the creator gives us free will, who the fuck is one man or a group of many or few men to go around telling someone they have no free will under another man's rule? I will say that first we need to at least fix this republic.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Asclepius's picture

We have been misled my friend...

Indians in their natural state of hunters and gathers were not the "savages" we have been brainwashed into believing. While it is true that the Mayans and Aztecs were engaged in "savage" behavior such as human sacrifice, this occurred after they had become highly advanced agricultural societies, which tend to become corrupted before their collapse. For example, we don't judge the Hellenistic culture of early Rome by the self-destructive ruthless conquest and even cannibalism that happened just before its collapse.

Learn the truth about how our country was founded:

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery; none but ourselves can free our minds. - Bob Marley

If you want to go through

If you want to go through life believing the people living here before were some pacifist brown hippies, go right ahead.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

ditto here. I prefer the term minarchist, but the reality

Is that I want literally no government. I do want roads and an elected sheriff, and that's about it.

I prefer to call this current administration a bunch democratic anarchists. That's gets some heads to turn and makes people think, and when they ask how, I tell them complete and utter ignorance of the rule of law and our constitution, to a king's decree of executive orders which violate the foundation of laws in the first place.

The lesser of evils argument will prevail with most of society, it's have a fascist government here who gives you some freedoms in exchange that we don't get invaded by China or Russia, and all speak a different language in 50 years. That's exactly what happened to the indians, they were decimated by immigrants and organized government who waged war on them until their culture was pretty much destroyed.

Casinos and free fishing licenses are no replacement for the culture and honor they once had, or the wonderous nomadic way they lived off the land for centuries.

minarchist - AKA civil libertarian/anarchist. I also use the term borderline anarchist once in a while, but that meaning could be confused for a mental problem =)

Peace, Freedom and Prosperity. Not War, Welfare and Bankruptcy.


And Islam is


If you would think before you

If you would think before you type you might not make such a fool of yourself.

If all you've got are insults

you don't think beyond frustration.

What does Islam have to do

What does Islam have to do with the video I posted?

The picture

appears to be Muslims bowing to DC. But they would be bowing to Mecca which is behind DC, thousands of miles.. but Muslims bow to Mecca, not DC.. DC is merely in there way physically.

So you are an expert on

So you are an expert on muslim behinds? I stand by my previous post about you making a fool of yourself.


I am not even an expert on my own behind, which I work harder to control than anyone else's.

It's just what it appeaared to what I have seen witnessing Muslims in prayer to Mecca.

How can you tell they're Muslims?

They are certainly posed as Supplicants bowing before their Idol, but whether they are Muslim or Catholic or Druid is not clear from the look of their trousers. The photo image is clearly intended to show strictly Statist Supplication. Why would you leap so eagerly out of context?

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
West of 89
a novel of another america

What Anarchy ISN"T....


Hey Archons', we are taking our planet back and there's nothing you can do about it!

Government without a force monopoly?

Is it possible to have a public sphere, separate from the private, which does not have any 'extra rights'? Specifically, is it possible to have voluntary government, totally separated from private interests, with no taxation, conscription, or initiation of force authority of any kind? Would this still be a 'state', or would it be more like a church or civic organization? Is it viable and/or desirable?

My motivation for questioning is that I don't agree with the idea of a 100% privatized society. I think there is a need for a public space, but I don't think it should have the power to initiate force of any kind and all its functions should be supported voluntarily. If it does a good or needed job, it will attract donations.

A moral government could function with funding from

Court issued contract insurance. Noone is forced to buy the insurance but if you dont then it is on you to enforce the contracts terms. In a free market there would be plenty of contracts being insured, enough to fund criminal court systems, prisons, police and military. Ayn Rand propose this somewhere and I thought it was a clever idea.

sharkhearted's picture

Even the term GOVERNMENTAL. It is just awful.

"Govern" (to control) Mental (of the mind)

To control....the mind.

Mind control!

The whole idea that any individual should cede their own personal sovereignty to this imaginary "authority" is a complete joke and needs to be discarded to the dust bin of history.

Governmental "authority" is an illusion...or as Larken Rose puts it: "a hallucination."

Once we stop hallucinating about the odious iand ridiculous notion of "governmental authority" it loses all its power on us.

Additionally, the philosophies of "statism" and "authoritarianism" need to be discarded...forever.

Murray Rothbard: "The STATE....is essentially a gang of thieves...writ large." AGREED!

Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

ChristianAnarchist's picture

Welcome to the club...

Welcome to the club...

Beware the cult of "government"...

JustLiberty4US's picture

Question: Native Americans and Government

The "help" provided to Native Americans by the US government has caused more hard than good.

Does anyone have sources (or articles) to back this up? I was surprised that I was unable to find much information on this. Thanks.

Do you really need sources to

Do you really need sources to show that bullets and smallpox covered blankets were harmful to the indians?

If that's all you got

I'd say you don't have much, don't know much, and have a hell of a lot of homework to do.