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Are libertarians The Chosen People?

(please note the small 'l')

I have read the entire Bible and it seems to me that God has chosen one people over all others to rule over his kingdom on earth - the libertarians.

Are libertarians God's chosen people?



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???

o_O

.
~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

I know what you're saying.

It is a bit of a brain-tickler, isn't it???

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reminds me of Bud Grant

He was head coach for the Minnesota Vikings NFL football team during its most successful period in history. Not one season came and went in which he wouldn't rather have been off hunting deer or pheasant on those crisp autumn weekends.

Cyril's picture

Wait ! Now I get it !

Wait !

Now I get it !

Maybe that's how He intended us to be principled, with our "free will" and one "Golden Rule" ?!

Ya know... "libertarian"... "liberty"... "free"... "will"... "love your neighbor as yourself"... etc.

;)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Exactly why Rand's objectivism has been called the most...

Christ-like philosophy.

(yes she denounced Libertarians but not the small-l variety so much...)

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She

She denouced "libertarians on the left", the long haired hippies who joined the LP to end the war on drugs, she railed against them. I know because my father was an objectivist (huge Ayn Rand follower, forced us to read her books if we wanted to talk to him) and when I joined the LP in 76 because of NORML ads in his Playboy magazines, he took great joy in damning me as being one of the people Ayn Rand was damning.

yeah that's pretty much it

Rand's "The Virtue of Selfishness" is great for Christians and basically reads as a latter day book of the Bible. Once you become an agent of God, the more selfish you are the more you are doing His work. Blankfein and Romney are both well on their way toward sainthood. My half-brother Eric too, runs a church, flies his own private jet but always claims he's too busy to come visit me, selfish bastard!

Neither Blankfein nor Romney practice Rational Self-Interest.

Their self-interest is irrational. It comes as a detriment to others which must come around to eventually harm themselves. Rational Self-Interest considers the well-being of other people to be in one's own self-interest directly.

Pissing-in-the-pool analogies aside...

Consider Mr. Potter from 'It's A Wonderful Life' who sought to gain all the wealth of the town for himself and ended up the king of a penniless ghetto. How much better to have enough Rational Self-Interest to allow the people to keep enough of their own earnings to build a community worth living in. Expand the analogy out to present-day conditions and you can see that the elites may currently be inheriting the earth but only as a result of destroying it. What gain is that?

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Cyril's picture

Tell you what.

Tell you what.

I really appreciate, like, enjoy, love, respect investigation, models, abstract theories, experiments - you name it, in maths or engineering.

But as for human affairs and life, at the scale of nations, or even, just a small street block... not so much. At all. You can test, break, and rebuild things all you want.

You can't, with people's lives. That's why I like the idea of liberty so much : it says the very minimum, and it refuses to force anything, only recommending (warmly) mutual respect and non-aggression.

So, I was mostly teasing using the obvious for me, in the former comment. And anyway...

"There is enough light for all those who desire to see, and enough obscurity for all those with a contrary disposition."

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Some wires may have gotten crossed here...

Note the lack of purple text. I mentioned objectivism, not pragmatism which is a morality-free anti-philosophy of ends justify the means garbage. Rational self-interest is different from mere self-interest, and the foundation of liberty. Without free will we are indeed mere animals whothat deserve to be herded into cages.

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"...mere animals..." ???

In my view, you were on a roll with this post until you veered off course with the "mere animals..." nonsense.

I think that liberty would be better understood by many more humans if we studied our fellow earthlings' behaviors more closely.

Millions of species have vastly superior survival plans compared to Homo sapiens. Outside of human influence, they operate with impeccable free will.

We are the only species that use cages. No other live form puts each other in prisons.

Wonder of a spider

Inprisons anything, even when its not hungry. I can think of so many examples in nature of slavery and prison. Dont think your agrument about not happening in nature is true. How about a stallion does he capture and hold hostage many as he can female horses? Nah humans are not as special as you have it in your mind.

sovereign

I don't think so...

I specifically suggested that examples of members of the same species imprisoning each other is virtually non-existant. There are no non-human prisons in our bio-sphere.

A stallion does not "capture" and "hold hostage" mares. (I would enjoy a YouTube of that!)

A spider secures its dead or dying prey (not of its own species, by the way) to eat at a later date.

Do you have more examples? Any examples of water-boarding? Underwater fish prisons?

There is also no trash in Nature outside of the trash our species generates.

Monkeys imprison one-another.

Get your facts straight.

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Sources?

I didn't know that. I would like to learn about this. Can you lead me to some good sources?

Even so, I think the millions of other species make my point.

By the way, we keep imprisoned almost 100,000 monkeys every day for laboratory experiments.

Here's one interesting place to start...

(a bit of a tangent but...)


http://youtu.be/80uSaxHXdk8

As far as monkeys go there is an experiment I read about where monkeys were punished for reaching for some fruit then new monkeys were introduced and the old ones removed until there were nothing left but monkeys who themselves were never punished for reaching for the fruit but would still jump on and wrestle down any newcoming monkeys that tried to reach for the fruit.

But my original point was that if we have no free will we are indeed animals worthy of being put in cages. Is this wrong?

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Not "wrong", but not a metaphor worthy of your interesting topic

Thanks Chris C. for sharing the video. I knew of this fungi, but I have never seen such excellent images of their life cycle.

My point is that within any of the other millions of species, I have found no survival behaviors that are counter-productive to the well-being of the species. I wish I could make the same case for ours.

Regarding the monkeys, competing for food (or mates) is a perfectly natural behavior. Building prisons and depriving members of one's species freedom of movement is not "natural."

I really enjoy your posts, your wit and your wisdom. You bring a lot to this DP party. I didn't mean to bust your chops.

Thanks for the kind words. In trying to ex-plane my reasoning..

I realize that thousands of pages of philosophy texts haven't been able to answer the question "If free will exists, then exactly what the hell is it?

And it doesn't help much that the 'elites' view themselves as a separate and superior species to Homo sapiens sapiens so in their minds they are only practicing proper social Darwinism when they put 'mehums' (mere humans) into cages...

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Yes to "...not able to answer..." and no to "..it's not easy..."

We (humans) don't even have a working model of reality, only a couple of billion different (and mostly un-informed) opinions of what it might be.

Philosophically, at the end of the 20th century humanity barely achieved our agreement to disagree "milestone." So far in this century, we haven't progressed much beyond that point.

Likewise, we know very little about what is "thought."

Cyril's picture

I hear you

Without free will we are indeed mere animals that deserve to be herded into cages.

I hear you. And even so, btw...

No kidding, although not quite comparable to ours, I could reasonably argue and make the case that our dog and cats here, her and them, don't lack a significant amount of free will !

ESPECIALLY the cats.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Your story is back on the top originals.

I think it's more important than my goofy Snowden post...

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Cyril's picture

I wouldn't call it "important". Just "sad"

I wouldn't call it "important". Just "sad" with a (very) lucky ending.

And in fact I'm trying to get over it, you know... Sure, I did appreciate all the kind words, of course.

But I'm also regularly in dire need of finding some humor on the DP these days, I'm sorry!

So thank you, from here, anyway. :)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

If you want to read it again you know where to find it.

When I do satire it is with a purpose - I love to point out that the emperor wears no clothes while poking him with a stick and sounding a bicycle horn. Laughing at our adversaries disarms them and puts them on the defensive.

On the opposite end of the spectrum is what happens down here amongst we commoners as a result of their exorbitant expenditures - street crime. It is unexpected because its victims don't talk about it because there is a sense of shame in being a target of an assault. Most people don't talk about it leaving others unprepared. You talked about it.

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The only man who is really free is the one who can turn down...

The only man who is really free is the one who can turn down an invitation to dinner without giving an excuse.

Jules Renard
French man
Dead
Died same year as Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens
:)

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Cyril's picture

LOL. Didn't know that one from him, great shot!

LOL. Didn't know that one from him, great shot!

So true!

I can imagine a long, sophisticated, condescending, and faked-enthusiasm letter of invitation to a formal dinner of theirs, coming from some nation's presidential office... and you'd just decline with :

"Mmm. No."

LOL :)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Not sure what a shot is...

but I'm glad you liked it?

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Cyril's picture

Witty take

shot = synonym for "witty take" in my vernacular. ;)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Do you mean shot in French, or shot in your part of the country?

Just that where I'm from a shot isn't a positive thing. I'm guessing it's a French thing but I could well be wrong based on this:

http://www.dailypaul.com/293342/tink-you-talk-good-check-dis...

(just look at the original title...)

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yes

yes