9 votes

Are Aliens Running The Planet?

I've never been a believer in aliens, but I'm starting to think they are already here and are taking over. Things have gotten so bizarre. People are going nuts. It's all so unnatural, and inhumane...not human. The elite few running this world can't possibly be of human origin. Their ruthlessness is in their genes, and they've multiplied like gremlins.

Maybe David Icke was right after all?

How's the story go? 13 family bloodlines connected to the Nephilim or something like that? They've been interbreeding with humans for how long now, spreading their evil seed?

Bizarre, and unreal right?

I think John Carpenter was trying to tell us something very significant in his movie, "They Live."

After watching these short clips, I can't believe how REAL this movie is, and how much it relates to today.

THEY LIVE, WE SLEEP (The Illuminati System) Part 1 and 2


http://youtu.be/Jy-2rQRNHZ8


http://youtu.be/vhzQbyXaltA

This movie has one of the all time greatest, if not THE greatest fight scenes of all-time, and it is quite symbolic given what the two men were actually fighting over.

"Put on the glasses!"


http://youtu.be/c9rrgJXfLns

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wolfe's picture

Wrong.

I have read the works in question. All you had to do was visit the link to learn without even so much as cracking a book, which you clearly did not.

Plato never claimed Socrates said any such thing.

No, his words did not mean that because he never said those words. You attempted to use "popular myth" to support a ridiculous conclusion. Hence, the down vote.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

I wasn't using "popular

I wasn't using "popular myth".. I did a paper on it before and I always liked the quote.
Maybe you're right, maybe I was mistaken, but even if he didn't say that exact quote, it has been said that he was not afraid to say he did not know the answer. And this quote is the same as above "I neither know, nor think that I know."

I think that you're reading way too much into my comments and are maybe lumping me in with your idea of a conspiracy theorist. I never once said the word reptilian and never once did I say I even believed in aliens, but there you are.. insinuating that I did and basically saying that I am wrong for something I never said I believed in. I was arguing that there is no way to know if there is or isn't.

wolfe's picture

Fair enough.

Perhaps I did make that leap.

But you assumed your down vote (from me, as I always respond when someone asks why) was because I didn't like "Socrates". Which I love the story, and Socrates by Plato is one of my favorite works.

But it is important to understand that Socrates never said to pretend to ignore facts in favor of questions. That is a distinction that may people have lost, and that -fake- quote ignores entirely.

Socrates' life was dedicated to understanding. Not being afraid to say that you don't know something is admirable. Ignoring a fact, because some one asks "what if that fact is not true" is ridiculous, and a perversion of his approach.

In fact, routinely in his "questioning", he would ask, "why do you believe X", and Socrates would respond with an absolute fact and follow up with, "so how does that fit with what you just said".

If Socrates didn't believe in any certain facts, then he could not have done so. His approach was an attempt to understand other people's beliefs, not an attempt to redefine the world through their viewpoint.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Well, like Socrates, if you

Well, like Socrates, if you really wanted to get deep, what makes a fact a fact? lol

I think it's all subjective and we will never truly know anything in this fact based mindstate. That's the beauty of that quote, whether it'd be a "fake" quote or not, that it is saying that the possibilities are endless and that one persons belief to another can be seen as a fallacy.

wolfe's picture

Except that is nonsense.

And leads to a intellectual purgatory that makes any effort to understand anything a waste of time. It is directly at odds with Socrates, and any philosopher that I agree with.

To deny facts, is to be, by definition, an idiot. No offense if you choose to live your life that way. I know plenty of happy people that choose to live life in that fashion. But it's not for me, and you have already removed yourself from debate, if you choose that.

If you notice, I gave you the -real- quote, "The beginning of wisdom is the definition of terms." Which is both parties stipulating what they mean when they say certain things, and an understanding of facts and agreed upon opinions. That is seeking knowledge.

Also note that facts are not arbitrary. Opinions on the meanings of those facts, may be. Facts are not the same thing as opinions, even if you wish it so.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

You didn't give me your

You didn't give me your definition for the word - fact?

So, do you feel that if a person doesn't see things from only your own personal point of view then you wouldn't want to have a debate with said person?

Btw, I seen your quote, but I gave you another ones of his which meant the exact same thing I quoted earlier. "I neither know, nor think that I know.", when comparing himself(Socrates) to the politician who thought he "knew" everything.

wolfe's picture

lol.

A fact is an empirically provable piece of information. Until it can be proven, it is a theory, and discussion on what that information "means" as applied to other things is an opinion.

"I am male", that is fact because we have defined certain body parts to mean "male".

"I can grow a beard because I am male." Theory, as I have never grown a full one so it theoretically possible (and likely given our available data on the subject) but unproven. In this regard, theories can be treated as factual if enough supporting evidence suggests it to be true, until new information is gathered.

"I am better at carpentry because I am male." A horribly sexist opinion as it is broad, unprovable and subject to interpretation as to what "better" means in relation to others as well as the work itself. Subjective.

And no, the full quote goes like this:

"This man, on one hand, believes that he knows something, while not knowing. On the other hand, I – equally ignorant – do not believe."

The quote means, he does not claim knowledge of things that he is ignorant of which is a completely different than claiming no knowledge of anything.

No, I do not want to have a debate with someone who chooses to ignore the very notion of a "fact" or "knowledge" as being possible. It makes it a waste of my time, of no interest to the other person, so how would that be beneficial to anyone?

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

"The quote means, he does not

"The quote means, he does not claim knowledge of things that he is ignorant of which is a completely different than claiming no knowledge of anything."

Maybe that part did, but i'm talking about this quote: "I am better off than he is,—for he knows nothing, and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know."
Which to me, he's saying he is wise enough to know he doesn't have the ability to fully know everything, in which I agree. We don't either.

I think this could go for days lol. I understand your points, but I don't think you understand mine.

Who is the one that declares something a fact? Is it collective? And if it is what if you have a different perspective?

Like a person that can only see half of a picture because he is looking at it from a side angle, when the person in front of it sees the whole entire picture. Does that mean the first persons view is false because he does not SEE it the way the 2nd does? Let's say that everybody except one person sees it from a side angle and believes this picture they see to be fact, is the individual that's seeing the whole picture wrong if the majority says it to be?

Some can argue that both truth and fact are subjective.

Why does it say it this way on this link? http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl201/modules/Philosophers/...

wolfe's picture

I understand your point.

And you are clearly wrong. And it is a harmful view that makes the search for knowledge a waste of time. Further, the quote you have posted, as well as any quote similar is not referring to "knowledge" being subjective. It is a reference to humility in seeking knowledge.

Facts are not subjective. As far as "truth", christians have so twisted the meaning of that word in modern society that it in fact means anything you believe but can't be proven.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Having an open mind is

Having an open mind is harmful in the search for knowledge?

That first quote I posted may be wrong, which in reality you have 0 idea if it is or not because you personally weren't there to hear him say anything (i'll give you that though), but my personal outlook on this subject cannot be wrong. It is the way I see things. You cannot tell someone how to view this world. It just is.

That 2nd quote is not only a reference to humility.. I also took the whole story about the wisest man as that we all have more to learn and that limiting the human mind, or "knowing" collective "facts" and where we think we know when we do not is actually harmful to the search for knowledge and not the other way around. Let's say Edison's uncovering of AC current was taken as the only possibility to transfer current into our households, which at the time was "fact"... Then why would Tesla even bother to go out and try something new? Facts are facts, right? Wrong... Facts and theories change throughout time as we start to change our views. Just about the only true fact that I know in this world is that things change.

What I don't get is how a person that knows we've been lied to with just about everything can somehow shut off possibilities at any point in learning the "truth". You can't truly be a truth seeker if you're not open to hearing new information, no matter how bizarre you find it. That's why I asked about having a debate with a person of a completely different perspective, which may I add you are doing perfectly fine with me right now lol... but you answered no. Do you feel that there is a line in the sand for information?

wolfe's picture

Twist my words much?

So you aren't content with mangling Socrates, but also must mangle my words as well?

"Having an open mind is harmful in the search for knowledge?"

I never said any such thing.

"but my personal outlook on this subject cannot be wrong"

Of course it can, opinions are wrong all the time. The search for knowledge is looking for facts and trying to determine the "best" opinion about those facts.

"That's why I asked about having a debate with a person of a completely different perspective, which may I add you are doing perfectly fine with me right now lol... but you answered no. Do you feel that there is a line in the sand for information?"

Once again, twist my words much? Debate is between two people with different viewpoints. I said no, I will not debate with someone who does not respect the value of the debate, the search for knowledge. What you have described is not a difference of opinion, what you have described is a disregard toward the value of knowledge.

As I said, you don't think "fact"s exist, and knowledge is subjective, so why would you debate ANYONE about ANYTHING? And why would I waste my time debating someone who will neither teach nor learn?

Me correcting you on twisting Socrates' words, and subsequently mine, is not a debate. I would not have a serious discussion with you. To prove that, I merely down voted you, without comment, until you asked. So I explained why, and corrected you.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

I didn't twist your words.

I didn't twist your words. You're saying it's a waste of time to have an open mind to other possibilities that are not collective facts. That's what my whole view is... and that's what you're saying is wrong.

"Of course it can, opinions are wrong all the time. The search for knowledge is looking for facts and trying to determine the "best" opinion about those facts"

And again, if my best opinion is different from yours then we have a whole different outlook. It can't be wrong because you may not see what I see and I may not see what you see. I'm not claiming anything you said it wrong because I haven't the slightest clue what you see, but the same should go for you as well.

It's not that I believe facts don't exist, it's that I question them all and you seem to think that they can't be wrong from your definition of the word... But in reality facts change and become theories lol... Because they are all theories and/or opinions to begin with.

wolfe's picture

Have a good day... :)

"I didn't twist your words. You're saying it's a waste of time to have an open mind to other possibilities that are not collective facts. That's what my whole view is... and that's what you're saying is wrong."

You say you aren't twisting my words, and immediately follow it by twisting my words -again-.

This is why discussion with people like yourself is a waste of time. You insist on twisting reality to mold around your viewpoint. If you had taken a moment to understand Socrates, or even my above statements, you may have learned something.

Have a good one, I wish you the best, but won't be wasting any more time with you.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

"And it is a harmful view

"And it is a harmful view that makes the search for knowledge a waste of time."

It is harmful that I believe there are possibilities beyond these "facts" and which makes the search for knowledge a waste of time. That's exactly what you said, no twisting of anything. I don't take offense either. I respect your opinions, but ok then...
I actually enjoyed the exchange on my end. Learned a lot about you and hope you got something from this as well. Wish you would rethink categorizing people the way you do though. It could stop you from enjoying conversation with some new people. Hope you have a great day too, Wolfe :)

wolfe's picture

"It is harmful that I believe

"It is harmful that I believe there are possibilities beyond these "facts" and which makes the search for knowledge a waste of time. That's exactly what you said,"

Except that it isn't what I said at all. You took one sentence of mine, and put your own words into the other part which mean something entirely different than what I had said, coming up with a meaning entirely unrelated to my actual statement. You have repeatedly done so, with my words, as well as Socrates'.

You are intellectually dishonest. Meaning, no respect for fact, information, or knowledge, which is consistent with your stated "world view" and why it is harmful.

It is why you have nothing to teach, and an unwillingness to learn.

And I wouldn't have responded if you hadn't once again attempted to twist my words. So, you are more than welcome to have the last word, but do refrain from misquoting me.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Wolfe, all I added was my

Wolfe, all I added was my actual view in between your quote because that's what you were referring to. You think that that "view", my view, is harmful.

You're taking it the wrong way or maybe I am not explaining myself that well, but i'm not trying to twist your words. I'm basically showing you how it reads when you put my "view" in your statement.

Not sure why you're taking it that way.

No. Assholes are.

No. Assholes are.

Does Nancy Pelosi count?

Does Nancy Pelosi count?

is this a fucking joke?

is this a fucking joke?

you can have fun with it you know.

welcome to the DP.

I made it to 0:53 - I hate

I made it to 0:53 - I hate fun.

a dose of humility.

you are welcome.

Do you think the drummer is a lizard?

I don't know any humans who can pull off feats like this. Its otherworldly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E

possible. is it really possible to play a mouth harp this well?

and while we are at it. what is the difference between pink and purple?

wolfe's picture

Sadly no.

We have our fair share of Lizard Believers around here.

It took me years to finally get my mom to stop listening to Coast To Coast.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Aliens, Demons, and Sociopaths

Could be that there are aliens who can shape shift into the form of humans. Could also be that some people are being controlled by demons.

Could be. But...

Occam's razor seems to want to shave all that stuff away and explain it by saying there are remorseless sociopaths in our midst who clamor for elite positions and have a tendency to work together much of the time to loot the 'feelers' by exploiting their feelings for fun and profit.

Great Movie!

And who ever thinks that we are the only living beings in the universe are completely insane. I don't think people realize how much is out there.

I also think of bad aliens as what religious people think as demons.

And they could be running things... who knows.

Lol, nice

That's Rowdy Roddy Piper as the main character. I don't know how I've never seen this movie but I'm going to watch it.

The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it-Andrew Jackson

On an added note

Roddy Piper lives in the mountains on a 10 acre plot of land in a modest home and keeps goats, chickens and other livestock. Says he prefers to be away from big cities. I'm not going to call him a prepper but his wife says he saves almost to a fault.

The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it-Andrew Jackson

yes

and unfortunately most are of the illegal genus