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Here's How The Corporations Defeat Political Movements (aka US! aka The D.P.)

http://www.popularresistance.org/heres-how-the-corporations-...

From leaked documents about stratfor and it's predecessor companies...

"Divide activists into four groups: Radicals, Idealists, Realists and Opportunists.

The Opportunists are in it for themselves and can be pulled away for their own self-interest.

The Realists can be convinced that transformative change is not possible and we must settle for what is possible.

Idealists can be convinced they have the facts wrong and pulled to the Realist camp.

Radicals, who see the system as corrupt and needing transformation, need to be isolated and discredited, using false charges to assassinate their character is a common tactic."

Since I've been on here I've been strongly pulled away from being an idealist to a realist and then I hate this page and quit posting.

I've also dipped into being a 'radical' and it feels fucking great when I do that! I also, get into good discussions then and usually take some sort of REAL ACTION.

I ask each of us to honestly appraise ourselves here and be quick to point out those who are attempting to drag us into realist's or discredit those of us who hold such fierce beliefs as to be called a 'radical'.



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I know this is old

I know this is old but I am bumping this because it is really relevant.

Hastings was investing the CIA and Stratfor and then he died. Statfor is known to spread disinfo.

Over the last few months ANY article/forum/discussion about Hastings has clear/cut examples of most of the exact disinfo/divide and conquer tactics listed in this article right here!!!

Michael Hastings was killed by the CIA/Stratfor.

The radicals are awesome.

They also tend to be right.

Personally, I find it helpful

Personally, I find it helpful to be reminded on a near daily basis that ALL people are self-interested. Business interests are large numbers of individuals, political groups, governments, freedom fighters, whatever... we are are still individuals and we all act out of our own self-interest. Even those good or terrible things that are done to protect or provide for family are essentially selfish.

This is the greatest lesson I have learned in life and the sooner an individual realizes this essential human truth, the sooner they are able to navigate all manner of human relationships.

Demonizing others is quite easy. Understanding is difficult.

wolfe's picture

When put that way...

It's pretty easy to break us all down, and there is a sliding scale.

Radicals - Anarchists/AnCaps
Idealists - libertarians (small L)
Realists - Minarchists/Conservatives
Opportunists - Pushers (pushing X video for $29.95, which includes tax scams, sovereignty scams, etc) and GOP faithful of course... :)

Which is why, I think it is important to normalize the Radical position among the Idealists and the Idealist position among the Realists, etc.

I had never really put it down in those terms, so thank you.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Decent, but I think that may

Decent, but I think that may oversimplify the situation and be an insult to libertarians.

If you read the document when they say 'idealist' what they mean is 'someone who can be convinced they are wrong'. That's the point, they say they just need to introduce enough doubt to the idealist until he becomes a pragmatist.

Does this sound like libertarians you know?

As well, I'm an ancap, but I have very little confidence that we could ever result in a free society, the bad guys have programmed people to be statists for too long. But I do think maybe we can reduce the state, so I stand with minarchists in this regard. I have something like an ideal, a voluntary society free of legitimized aggression, which many would regard as radical, but I'm a realist about the likelihood of success, so I opportunized on the distrust the state has created in society to educate people about liberty.

Your categories are good from our perspective though. The latter two categories do sort of go together. These are people who don't see much past their bellies and wouldn't likely be in the movement if things were not dire. 'Realists' in this category for example don't have a problem with social security per se, they have a problem because they can see it's going broke. So realists will tend to roll off towards opportunism. These are both therefore ephemeral allies for us.

The latter two are much more oriented to what is better for society as a whole. Intelligent libertarians inevitably move towards anarchism. This is contrary to what the stratfor strategy would consider 'idealists' to do. This is because the philosophical and economic foundation of liberty is so well developed and irrefutable.

Basically I think the important difference between libertarianism and anarchy is an understanding of economics. If you're an anarchist that doesn't understand economics you are very liable to backslide, because you don't have an coherent rational underpinning for what you think. Except maybe a healthy distrust of power and authority. Those are good, but they could as easily lead you to anarcho-syndicalism.

wolfe's picture

All of your points are well taken.

And I don't disagree with much, but would like to clarify one part. But before I do, I should say, I am an anarchist and so that isn't meant as an insult at all for the Radical category... :)

libertarians can lose the faith/be swayed, by becoming utilitarian. The natural rights folks will eventually become anarchists, while the utilitarian folks will eventually become minarchists and eventually worse, abandoning the NAP in favor of practicality.

I do also stand with the minarchists for many of the same reasons you mention, but I believe we act as a conscience for them, and serve to keep them moving in our direction. Without us, they would all eventually fall prey to statism (just as it has always happened).

The more of us that exist as their "guide", the more likely they are to succeed. We offer the polar opposite to the state and can answer the logical questions when too much emotion comes into play.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Totally

That's a nice way to look at it, we are the conscience of minarchists.

Minarchists don't always evolve, but occasionally one of us says something that starts them thinking. Once they do start thinking it's usually game over.

And that is not a criticism of our minarchist fellow travelers. I do understand the concept of rational ignorance. For many people it simply is not worth the cost.

For many people it is simply not worth the 'percieved' cost

I think most of it is they are scared of the unknown, or unseen. Not being able to visualize how things would work without coercion, or not having faith that people could figure it out, they visualize chaos and don't want to pay that cost.

Part of the point is 'I don't know', and there isn't a small group of all knowing central planners that do know. No individuals have the capability to know how resources should be allocated. You just have to have faith in freedom and let it work.

Patriot

There's a 'new' category that I don't think their strategies work so well on. I understand they would be considered idealists or radicals, but the strategy doesn't work on them.

Consider the Tea Party. One thing that sets them apart from OWS people is teabaggers consider their mission to be one of more than just ideals, it's almost of destiny. They consider saving the republic a near holy duty.

If nothing else, while possibly falling in the 'radical' category there are simply too many to isolate. Attempts to do so in fact reinforce their resolve, and active attempts to thwart them legitimize their mission with evidence of a real antagonist.

While they have some learning to do, the Tea Party is this a good ally, and their patriotic resolve is I think a large part of their success, compared to OWS. I think OWS are largely well intentioned but more co-opted. Teabaggers are much more likely to recognize the corporate threat, with the understanding that government creates it, than OWS people are likely to recognize government coercive power is the real threat and enables corporate power.

Very interesting

Notice that the only group that cannot be co-opted are the radicals. Food for thought.

“Although it was the middle of winter, I finally realized that, within me, summer was inextinguishable.” — Albert Camus

realistic radicals

I like the idea of radicals with realistic strategies.

This is super important.

Everytime someone is divisive, check yourself to see if they are operating ON you.

Here are some possible examples. I'm not saying they ARE ops, but they could be. One need check onesself:

Kokesh
National Delegate Lawsuit
Alternate "Paul Fests"
People convincing our people to not attend GOP meetings/not stick all the way through the delegate process

Just some thoughts.

Radical

I've been radical for twenty years or so. I just figured I was a wee bit ahead of my time and that sooner or later more and more people would join me. I think it is working! I salute all persistent radicals and warmly welcome the newly radicalized. Radical only has a bad connotation in my mind where it refers to those radicalized in violent ideologies. When it comes to liberty, everyone should be radical!

To once again bring up one of my favorite (relevant) quotes of all time:

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" - Barry Goldwater

That seems pretty accurate.

That seems pretty accurate. I think there are a lot of Realists around... especially if you visit the anarchy or voluntarist posts.

Thank you for sharing!

This is great information - it isn't anything new per say but having it in a well written article us great for sharing with other people.

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

Shows how goofy corporate thinking is about groups

On this list, I would be a realist- opportunist.

Do what you want. I am.

ecorob's picture

Stand...

and deliver.

Identifying me helps to motivate me.

We turn the tables.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Bump!

Good info.

Fascinating

yet insidious.

Interesting to note also the belligerent positions on government/corporate whistle-blowers