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Rep. Justin Amash on Fox News Sunday


Additionally, Glenn Greenwald just revealed proof that members of Congress were denied access to basic information about the NSA: http://iroots.org/2013/08/04/rep-justin-amash-on-fox-news-su...

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The most chilling part of this video

To me, the most chilling part of this video was when Chris Wallace proposed 3 "changes" (see below) to the program to see if that would satisfy Amash.

1) Special counsel to challenge govt requests in secret court

2) Reduce how long phone records can be kept from 5 to 2 years

3) Release information yearly on # of warrants the govt seeks

None of these would change the program. The first item would be yet another person in government "challenging" others in government (essentially another fox to guard the hen-house).

The 2nd proposed "change" is an attempt to legitimize the program itself (phone records would still be kept) but pretend to make a concession (2 years instead of 5). All they care about is legitimizing the program in the minds of the public. If they can get the people to buy into the premise of the program, then we really are sheeple who are signing away our own liberty.

As an aside, the 2 year vs 5 year thing is complete nonsense anyway. You know they'll hold this data indefinitely. Who would even be there to check them? Remember Kissinger's quote about "Illegal we do immediately. Unconstitutional takes a little longer".

The 3rd proposed change is yet another phony "concession". Like we'd trust government statistics?! The same people who bring to us such numbers as the CPI.

Lol this guy needs to brush

Lol this guy needs to brush up on his definitions and read the various whistleblowing statutes that are supposedly in place. In many situations, you do not have to go to a higher up, especially if you have reason to believe that nothing will be done about it.

added a better quality version of the video


Check out http://iroots.org/
"If you’re into political activism, at least for Ron Paul if not for anyone else, I strongly recommend spending some time with iroots.org." - Tom Woods

"Government demands every that I tell them every penny I make

and how I made it." Hayden admits this to be, "in one sense, an invasion of privacy", but then goes on to use it to justify greater invasiveness!

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

"Put me in that 45% of", what?

Michael Hayden stretched the support for his position to include the 11% that did not answer either way. The poll reflects merely a little over a third who believe Snowden's actions traitorous; verses over half who believe he served the common good by divulging vital info that affects us all.

Rep. Amash had just reported that most of Congress, including himself, couldn't get access to the real info of what's going on at the NSA without the reporting that Edward Snowden brought everyone. Why should we even care what Hayden's opinion is of him after that point! He's just admitted that Congress OUGHT to be left in the dark, as thought they are supposed to sign their rights away, along with everyone else's; simple because he thinks that much of himself!

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

"A whistle-blower is", WHAT?

Hayden comes up with a strange definition of what it is to be a whistle-blower, indeed!

Check it out: " A whistle-blower is someone who raises concerns WITHIN our government, in order to affect change." Hayden went on to describe how he didn't follow his personal definition, but is that really the actual definition we all know? Hell, NO!

A whistle-blower, as clearly as I can interpret from what Rep. Amash described it; is someone with the courage to report the criminal activity of anyone; no matter the consequences against themselves; to whomever might serve the common good in bringing that activity into public accountability. PERIOD!

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

But we can run with that definition.

I understand they want to change the definition of "is", so to speak (like Clinton's lawyers did), but even by trying to spin the definition of whistleblowing as a type of sedition, then the rebuttal would be, "Sure, whistleblowers may indeed have the intent to affect change in government, the change from criminal behavior to a government that obeys the rule of law ( the Constitution).

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a rEVOLution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

There is no safe place "within government" to report

against it, is there? If he could tells us how how he could have safely done that, "to affect change", he might have some credibility.

Hayden knows, however, that the very act of approaching this government with any info that might incriminate it, will absolutely always be met with total suppression of that info, AND the disappearance, or "erasure", of that whistle-blower, eh?

Can you name any exceptions to that rule?

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. - Frederick Douglass

Is it possible for this country to be respected and not always a

Why do we need this program to begin with. Our foreign policy maybe?

Is it possible for this country to be respected and not always a target. What do we have to do, to not need this surveillance?

Why is this guy still hiding

Why is this guy still hiding behind fancy words like "metadata" when we already know about XKeyStroke program?


Yup. Notice how they keep up

Yup. Notice how they keep up the Metadata mantra. The whole time it was indicated to be ALL communications and then the Xkeystroke spelled it out for even the biggest G'ment morons to understand. But, they are professional evaders and they love nothing better than to keep repeating false info so the couch potatoes watching these programs say ' huh whats all the fuss about they are only looking at phone bills, big deal.

All obfuscation and lies.

Snowden could have addressed his superiors.

So if your company is blatantly harming the public, then your responsibility is to your employer or supervisor?

So if you worked for a factory, and found out your company was knowingly polluting the local water, and everyone in the factory knew about it but just kept on operating as usual. The company is defying the trust of the local people, and lying to the local people by hiding the pollution. You come out and tell your neighbors what the company is up to. And the company says "you are a criminal," you should have just told your boss named Fred about the harm, even though Fred already knew, and you would be fired, and the pollution would still be harming the public, and the company would still be getting away with the lies.

When you consider the Snowden case, I don't think it should really be that difficult to explain "who the bad guy" is.



“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”― Henry David Thoreau

Desert Rat

I began watching the link (vid) you gave me on another thread to "The Greatest Story Never Told", actually took some notes I found remarkable, such as that magic number 6,000,000 at 14:43 refering to a "Communist Jewish Takeover", long before Hitler. I accidentially clicked on your name (perhaps it was fate?) and saw that you had made other posts to, and about, me. I read them.

You have been here six years.. as long as me. Funny, I never noticed you.

Man, this was annoying to

Man, this was annoying to watch with video constantly stopping

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

What drives me crazy.....

Is that we argue over Snowden or which surveillance programs are necessary, without discussing the bigger issue.

If we would get out of the middle east and leave them alone, we would become less of a target. Too bad Justin Amash doesn't bring that up more.

I mean, if a doctor goes around breaking legs, should we listen to him arguing for better surgical techniques?

Or the fireman near here that was always first on scene to the fire - a real hero - until they found out he was setting the fires!

How about some perspective here!

Government policies create the threat, and then they provide the programs to fight it! Thank goodness they care about us!!!

Reminds me of the great Harry Browne line...

"Government cripples you, then it hands you a crutch and says, "See? If it wasn't for me you wouldn't be able to walk!"

AMASH a slight DISAPPOINTMENT .....in this interview!

I liked his amendment, but frankly, he needed to say---

"We'll talk when YOU start treating whistleblowers with respect, but we know you are hunting them down and killing them"...until then, there is nothing to say, because the NSA needs to be brought down to its knees and destroyed, in other words, totally shut down! NOBODY in our government needs this kind of massive information, unless they are going after their political enemies! That is what Americans are worried about! That they are going after THEM!

And, Amash never even mentioned that! Besides, these tiny bills introduced are there to "appease" the public. Nothing more, nothing less. They will do "dit squat"!

Our history has ALWAYS been that you need a warrant from an "open" court with justification for one, in order to spy on an individual's private records, voice mails, anything.

Amash SHOULD have said that the result, while close, was NOT acceptable, and we were going to have to do something else about it.

I'm going full LOTR on his ass!

The Ring would give me the power of Command. ‘How I would drive the hosts of Mordor, and all men would flock to my banner.’

Boromir strode up and down, speaking ever more loudly. Almost he seemed to have forgotten Frodo, while his talk dwelt on walls and weapons, and the mustering of men; and he drew plans for great alliances and glorious victories to be; and he cast down Mordor, and became himself a mighty king, benevolent and wise. (The Lord of the Rings | J.R.R. Tolkien)


Check out http://iroots.org/
"If you’re into political activism, at least for Ron Paul if not for anyone else, I strongly recommend spending some time with iroots.org." - Tom Woods

Watch Hayden's Eyes!

If you want to know if someone's telling the truth watch how much their eyes blink. His eyes were blinking crazy fast! Read this article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2589073/Liars-are-exposed-by...
Watch again and watch his eyes.

I noticed the same thing

His blinks were upwards of 140 Blinks per minute at some points.

Hey Hayden you Nazi B _ _ _ _ _ _

Give my tube steak the "lightest touch possible".

I agree with Hayden!

It would take a massive amount of evidence to shut down the extraordinary number of embassies!

The massive amount of evidence is against the Benghazi Inside Job Criminals -- And it has to be cleaned because the alternative press is closing in. And there's no telling what Snowden might surprise these scumbags with like something they forgot take care of.

Hayden, You're a Lying, Piece-Of-S-H-I-T!

I agree with the bald headed NSA/CIA weasel about one point

@10:20 he says it is an invasion of our privacy the way the income tax is collected.

I disagree that it serves any public good.

note his response...

at 4:27

Government fucktard says he is with the other 45% of people. That is not the truth. It is another attempt to manipulate a message.

There are not 45% of people that side with him. According to the poll only 34% believe he is a traitor. Over 2/3rds either side with Snowden or have no opinion. He is not allowed to have the 11% not accounted for.

The other 11% believe something else.

Zinggggggg... got you mofro. Our message is winning. We can have security and privacy.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul


that lie also. He's a manipulator, works for the global elite.

It's time! Rand Paul 2016!

"Truth, Justice, and the American Way!"

About Government

"Government is not eloquent or reason. It is force and like fire is a fearful master" ~ General George Washington

hell yea..

'The only truths to be relied upon in newspapers are advertisements.'

Thomas Jefferson

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

Social networking Arabs and

Social networking Arabs and Muslims in Muslim countries can so screw with the USA by sending made up attack messages out willy nilly. They all have known for many years NSA is monitoring everything. Who's gonna arrest Arabs in Arab countries for making false bomb threats against US assets in everyday communications?

American Data Purge Act.

I want Rep. Justin Amash to introduce a bill that sets a date to purge all data acquired by all federal agencies, that was obtained without specific warrant according to the 4th amendment. I want many co-sponsors on this bill and simultaneously introduced in the Senate by Senator Rand Paul.

People in congress have become psychotic, using an irrational obsession of keeping Americans safe, and using it as an excuse to violate every manner of civil liberties.