43 votes

Can an Evangelical Christian please explain the obsession and servitude towards Israel

Im being serious and non-Sarcastic.

I really want to know why certain Christians are so obsessed about bowing down to Israel and Jews? It would just seem to me that the people who denied Jesus to the point they helped Crucify him wouldn't be so high up on the "Favorites List"

and if we were to play this out in Biblical chronological order it would seem like the Jews are anticipating the coming of the Anti-Christ as there Messiah since they rejected Jesus as such. So besides indoctrination and propaganda is there any other reason why Christians see no wrong in Israel and Jews?

by the way I don't have nothing against Jews, I judge people on Character not labels but the idea that Israel and Jews can do no harm and can never be criticized is absolutely ridiculous and detrimental to peace and cooperation with one another.



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deacon's picture

i shouldn't be surprised

You saw that in me
I actually did believe them,here is why
when i got that job at GM,it was sold to delhpi shortly
there after,they out sourced 3/4 of the jobs. They put the new hires
in what they called a jobs bank (we sat in a room waiting for job)
this lasted a couple of years,they were letting people go to college
and they were paying for. I wanted to be a pastor,so i chose that
and at the same time we were getting our foster care licenses (this was where our hearts were)on the way to DR"S to get our tests complete,we had that accident.From that day on,my life changed for the worse,every possible thing
that could go wrong or break DID,this is no exaggeration
Our second veh was about totaled by a drunk underage girl in a kmart
parking lot (she actually hit me twice before she even knew i was there
cost over a grand to fix (so it could be driven)We bought a truck,as we needed one,it was totaled last june,and is now sitting across the street
the INS company claims the one who hit had no ins at the time,so we are now out that (it took a few years of saving to buy it)
every major appliance in our house just started dying,stove fridge (twice),washer.dryer.front door (for some reason it was off the hinges?)
we weren't broken into,so not sure about that strange event
so yeah i really believed they right,and i was being punished
not so much anymore, I heard this said before,"if you are living for the world,the world loves you,if you don't live for it,it comes against you"
thank you for your words :)
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

The Spirit has you...

...you haven't lost the Spirit.

I hear Him in you and I've been made rich by all that you've shared.
The Lord has taken you through a lot....and I see a beautiful spirit of meekness that has come forth because of the refining fires of affliction.

I'm glad to hear that you & your family left that 'church' (yes, shake the dust off your feet from that place!).
The Lord called my family out of the Babylonian church system almost 8 years ago and ever since then.He has been purging us of all the false teachings taught within Babylon...and has also been cleansing our temples of the false images we had of our Heavenly Father (also from the warped teachings from Babylon).
The Holy Spirit is our teacher....and we have no need for any man to teach us.

I was sad to hear about your back. I am going to include a link for a natural supplement that has mighty anti-inflammatory properties and does wonders in helping the body recover from back pain, joint pain, muscle pain. It is Curcumin. This product can be purchased on amazon & click on the reviews & you'll be blessed by all the testimonies from people that have had great success with using Curcumin.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000X9P5GM/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?qid=...

Also, to help with the feeling of 'brain fog' take 3 tbsp of collodial silver a day until you use up a 16oz. bottle of it (this will help you detox from any heavy metals that have been left over/built up within your body from the med's you were on).
To build up your immune system & to get you feeling stronger start taking about 1500-3000mg of Vitamin C and 5000mg of Vitamin D (most Americans--60% are deficient in.Vitamin D).

I'm keeping you in my prayers.

The blessings of JOY, PEACE, GRACE and LOVE to you, (((Deacon))).

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

deacon's picture

thank you again

your words,as well as the others are a true inspiration
If you would like to chat,i can tell you more about what i experienced
but not on the main board (PM,maybe?)
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

BRAINWASHING

.... That's all it is, brainwashing!

... As in big media, as in politicians lying, as in public education propaganda, as in Hollywood, and anything else you can imagine, it doesn't matter, both sides of the political wheel are all brainwashed.

But I'm telling you something---tonight we went out with a vendor in the oil industry, and we have always had political discussions over dinner, and these people are awake----- so the CIA, the FBI, the powers that be, have to really worry because so many people are truly waking up!!!

Yes, I know that we all work jobs and we are frustrated right now as to what to do, but I really believe that something is going to happen that will really grip these people who have woken up. Just remember one thing....the Federal Reserve has no idea whatsoever how much money it's printed,, and if you look at the monetary supply charts you will find a very interesting thing----the printing in 2008 suddenly went off the charts. ...exponentially off the charts! That means that something is very likely to occur in the future, at what time we don't know, but it's sometime in the future. And I believe personally that it will be something catastrophic, and I believe that Dr. Ron Paul feels the same way.

This is what scares the banking billionaire elites of the world.

With the loss on the grip of their fleeting power will come potentially the loss of their lives. If this whole system that they have devised falls apart, then the maddening crowds will be so overwhelming that there will not be a rock in the whole entire world they will be able to escape under.

Parables.

Wow. It amazes me how cruel "good" people can be. The parables are just as true now as in Jesus time. Who is the better person? The "holy" Pharisee or the outcast Samaritan? Certainly it is true, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to pass through the gates of heaven.

deacon's picture

I had forgotten

all about them parables,thank you for the reminder
I so did need to "hear" them again :)
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Deacon hang in there

God has a plan for you. He gives you nothing more than you can manage. Gods people are promised to go through tribulations or hard times because of their faith. Being a Christian isn't a get rich scheme as that teacher would have you believe. The church is rampant with scum and villains just as were present in Jesus' time. I would challenge you to trust that God has preserved his word so that you can have a sword in his army. Believe it! Read it! You will find that what you are going through is not because of God but because this world is fallen, the enemy has a stranglehold on man, and we are mixed up in it. But God will not forsake his people! There is hope in this. Don't let any man take away the faith you have in Him. We must have a good foundation in Christ if we are to survive these trials and again, you will overcome all things in Christ!

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

deacon's picture

Banemaler

Thank you for them words.I guess I needed to read them.
But I really did not want to experience this thread again.
I wasn't wanting to remember it all over again.I get to close to it,It gets personal,I get stressed and I can't think straight....Or I type what I have experienced and the darkness I can actually see and feel,then people think I am crazy,I was even told GOD doesn't talk to people anymore,since the bible is complete,he has no need to,soooo,I won't go there either
I have never been rich,had a great job though,working for GM.Was making $30 plus an hour.That job,right along with becoming a foster parent and a pastor has been stripped from me.
Out of respect for you,I answered back,you were so nice in that comment,i felt I had to.I do not want to get close to this again,so please,let this DIE
Thank you
D

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

open borders

i.e. - flawed immigration policy !

Taking a literal translation is

dangerous and miss leading.
Adam and Eve are not and never have been 2 people. Adam roughly means First Born, or First man, Eve fist women.
The old Testament is a mixture of ancient beliefs, folk-law, story telling and laws, it's not Gospel Truth, and has been re worked and re written over the centuries.
And it was Lot's daughters who instigated an incestuous act with their father by getting him drunk. This was after the destruction of their world and they believed they were the only ones left. God or an earthquake?

Deacon

You would be incorrect about the number of people in both cases. You are referencing two very short stories try reading them. Literally it would take less than 10 minutes for each story. You may be surprised at what you find. Asking for others answers may be why the info in your post is incorrect.

The biggest mistake I made in my life was letting other peoples behavior and other peoples opinion of the Bible be the basis for deciding the Bible had little value for my life. Hands down, that has been the biggest mistake of my life.

All the Men who I am want to emulate as far as being a husband and Father had strong faith. (Including RP)I finally submitted my ego and realized that maybe their faith was important part of how they came to be such loving and caring men towards their wives and children. I am so thankful I found my way to the scriptures.

Wish you the best Deacon.

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

deacon's picture

my ego

has nothing to do with them questions i asked
i have studied many bibles for over 35 yrs,I have many more questions
you see,when i asked these 2 in church,i was told by the elders
"to accept them by faith,just as you have done
faith does not answer,nor can it,it is a contradiction,or misinformation
Now the reason i asked is this,there appears to be a couple who might know
the answers
I cannot/will not accept false information based on faith,as it does not answer anything,it just leads to more questions
there are reasons i ask.one of them being,the bible has been altered
whole books taken out,chapters with words that go nowhere
example the name lilith,ever heard of her?,supposedly she was adams first wife,she would not submit to him,so she was banished from the garden
the text speaks of lilith as a demon,and now she causes crib death,and gives men their night dreams
so you see,it is not ego,but of wanting more knowledge
see here http://www.gotquestions.org/Lillith.html

deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

Deacon

Well your ego gets in the way of reading. If you have studied so many bibles that makes your question...never mind.

Where did I suggest you had to take the answers on faith? I said read.

I was saying MY ego prevented me from picking up the bible. Not every statement revolves around you sometimes people say what they mean and I meant my ego.

BTW the link says Adam having another wife besides Eve is ludicrous.

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

A large number of Christians

A large number of Christians are interested in causing Armageddon (and thus hastening the return of Christ) and so they actively develop technologies and promote American foreign policies and push for laws that would allegedly accelerate this.

that is baloney. Being a

that is baloney. Being a Christian, the last thing I want to see is human suffering on a grand scale. Jesus even tells us not to want to have this time in history come soon. Also, people need to understand exactly what Armageddon is and what the tribulation period is.

The tribulation is period is going to be worst times in human history. There will be suffering that most people would not believe possible. Can't believe you have 8 up votes. Being a Christian I can surly say that I am not wanting to hasten that time period in history. Yes I am preparing for it, but not wanting to see it.

Cyril's picture

Observably.

Observably.

Maybe they think complete nuclear and/or chemical chaos would be a cool thing to get started.

One reserve, though:

out of "Christians" they only bear the much improper name thereof.

They might as well call themselves pink unicorns.

Or crimson unicorns, rather.

But it's nothing specific to them exclusively. It's a very well "shared" attribute among people with power and force, or related interests.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I personally find modern

I personally find modern evangelical Christianity akin to a death cult.

Cyril's picture

Yes. I can relate to that feeling.

Yes. I can relate to that feeling.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Some are hung up on dispensationalism

which sees Israel and the Church as having two separate covenants. In this paradigm, Israel (as a whole, and as a nation ) will be restored to the position of elect on earth once the Church is raptured. These are the ones most likely to take the 'Israel can do no wrong' approach.

Other Evangelicals take the opposite position: Israel is a nation, which, having rejected their Messiah, should be considered as accursed. This frees them to 'Blame Israel first' for every problem in the Middle East, regardless of the validity of the conclusion.

The middle of the road camp acknowledges the Romans 11 paradox: the Jewish People of Jesus' day were both loved on account of the Patriarchs, and those who rejected the Messiah. Paul himself wished that he could be cut off for his Jewish brethren, and Jesus promised His disciples that they would reign over the Twelve Tribes of Israel. (Acts 1: 6 - 8) We believe in the rights of all sovereign states, including Israel, to exist, and to determine their borders within reason. We also believe that Israel should uphold its own law, and treat the aliens within the nation (who deign to live peacefully among them) as they would treat the fellow Jew.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

The Biblical View of Israel

Answer the question: Why Christians supports Israel and the Jews in general?

1. Israel is the chosen nation of God. God has no other nation He calls his own except the Israelite because of His covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The New Covenant does not change this. See Romans Ch9.

So we as Gentile Christians who are grafted unto the true vine, need to appreciate the chosen people. They kept the Books of the Law which is the Old Testament. Jesus came through the Jews! The Apostles were Jews. They preached the Gospel to the Gentiles so we today can be saved. The Christian Church was started by the Jews! (See Romans, what Paul has to say about the Israelites).

2. The restoration of the State of Israel is the fulfillment of God's words and prophecies. I know lots of you tied the State of Israel to the Rothchilds. Regardless the validity of such claim, God restored Israel! And you have to agree that NO other nation was restored after being destroyed and dispersed throughout the world for almost 2000 years. It was a miracle! And Israel is to be the focal point of the world affairs (as you have seen). The end will come as described in Ezekiel, Daniel and the Revelations, and it will be all focused on Israel.

3. Although Israel has rejected Jesus the true Messiah, the whole household of Jacob shall be saved! They will be saved and accept the true Messiah. And the nation of Israel will be God's government on earth in the Millennium. Jesus Christ will rule the world through Israel. (Of course, that would be the new Israel that has been converted.) See Isaiah and Revelation.

4. After the milleninum they will be attacked by the whole world once again, lead by Satan himself. Satan will be put away for the one last time and a New Heaven and New Earth will begin. See Revelation.

Conclusion: Jews are the chosen people of God. God has blessed us through them. God gave us Jesus and the Bible through the Jews. We Christians need to appreciate and pray for the Jews and the nation of Israel. True, we should not support 100% what the State of Israel does. However, you can see that on the opposite side, 99% of the world is Anti-Israel and treats Israel as the cancer of the world and act as if Israel and Jews are gone from the world then all the problems would have been solved. And we know where this kind of attack comes from. Satan has been the mastermind of antisemitism from the beginning. He wanted to utterly destroy God's chosen people. He wanted to wipe them off the face of the earth! So, this is another reason why Christians general choose to stand along with Israel. Sure they are not perfect, but if their enemy is Satan, I will choose to be on their side.

this is complete BS. The Jews

this is complete BS. The Jews were chosen to give the Gospel of Christ to the world. That is what they were chosen to do. They rejected Christ and lost that calling.

Again

Was not Noah the only one said to walk with God in his time?
Was not there even 10 righteous men in Sodom upon its destruction and Lot and his family were yet spared?
Were there not even disciples that walked with Christ that betrayed and denied him?
Were not founders of the Christian faith all Jews?
Do we fail to learn that God does great things with but a few?
How does the US differ from Israel in its militant pursuits that we are exceptional to them?
Are there not 10 righteous men in the US or Israel?

The truth is that we aren't different from the chosen people. We have all fallen short of the glory of God. This generalization that implies that there are no Christian Jews is a false teaching. This lack of faith that God will not fulfill his promise to his chosen people is foolishness.

Do you doubt Gods power to redeem his chosen people?

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

Yes, but God can graft them back in

more easily than we have been grafted into Christ.

I think the key here is we are all sinners, Jews and Gentiles, and we all need to saved regardless.

However, it is a mystery how all the Jews will be saved. And yes, I don't quite know and understand all that, but I do believe God can do it. If God can save me and all of us gentiles, then God can save all the Israelites at His time.

You might want to read Romans 11 in its Context

before coming to that conclusion. Romans 10 will give you the setting, if you need it. The conclusion of the matter is :

Romans 11:25 - 29

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits: that blindness is *in part happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel will be saved: as it is written,"There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and turn ungodliness from Jacob: For this is My covenant with them, when I shall take away their sins." As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are loved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance!

*Paul explains in Romans 10 that many were disobedient to the gospel, but that this certainly did not justify Gentiles in claiming that 'God has cast away His people', and names himself as a case-study. He also claims not to be the only one (by inference, as he recalls the claim of Elijah, " I am the only one left", and God's response. "I have reserved to myself 7000 men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.")

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Agree

I think the key here is that GOD himself made the Covenant with Abraham, and He will not negate on His own WORDS. Just like God's Covenant with Noah, all the world benefits and enjoy that Covenant, even though most of us hate God.

So I think it is a mystery of God's grace and mercy, that He will work out His Covenant, that all his chosen people will be saved.

Nail on the head GSMIRO

You answered the man's question honestly and Biblically.

Remember, God dispersed the Jews twice after they came to Israel for not following God. But he brought them back each time.
Point of that statement is that they are human like the rest of us.
Us Christians like everyone else still sin.
Look @ us here, we know most of the truth of what is going on in our country and other countries. We are not controlling our government, so how is it not any different in Israel or for that matter in other governments?

When I 1st came to this site I was taken back for all the hate against Israel. But then again I would have to assume that there are very few Holy Spirit indwelt Christians here.

Plantin the seeds for our Savior. In the End Jesus wins!

collectivism again--

then what would *you* do with Rabbi Weiss and his thousands of fellow Orthodox (Godly, not secular) Jews--

who promote peace and won't acknowledge the State of Israel and its behavior towards the Palestinians?

Where do you put them?

They are the Ron Paul followers of the Jewish world, and there are a lot of them--

they are joined by thousands of secular Jews who have the same beliefs?

Will these good, honest, truth-seeking Jews be destroyed, according to your belief system?

I used to believe as you do, and I STILL believe that Christians need to acknowledge the efforts of righteous Jews--

Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekial and even the minor prophets--

and, yes, Jesus was Jewish--

but--

He also said He could raise up seed unto Abraham from stones--

that's fine, and that's something that Christians can argue somewhat harmlessly about--

but what do you do with the JEWS who are not happy with Israel?

Destroy them and let the 'liberal', no-longer-believing-in-God Netanyahus of the world take over?

THAT is a spiritual battle on another battlefield--

and it's too big for us--

God will decide, but I don't believe that He'll say "down with you" to Weiss and "good for you" to Netanyahu--

and I apologize for responding to you, because all you did was represent what most Christians (non-Catholic) believe, and that is what the OPer asked for--

you did a good job; that is certainly what I would have written out 20 years ago--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

I don't know.

And I don't pretend that I know the answer. But I do know that God will save ALL His chosen people. Now, maybe not all Jews are destined to be saved, we got to go with what the word of God says. "All the household of Jacob shall be saved." And so I believe. Secular Jews, religious Jews doesn't matter to me, God will save them in HIS time and in HIS way.

The return of Jews to

Israel has a massive sentimental impact because there are Bible passages that speak of a return in the last days.

It's also tied into the paradigm of how militarism is so accepted by Christians now. It took a lot of violence to make Israel happen and that makes it easier to think in terms of violence justified because you are on the side of God.

And more specifically to American evangelical Christians, there's this idea of a nation blessed by God. Accepting the U.S. is special somehow and thinking of Israel as the Chosen People go hand in hand.

I don't think it's so much Jews that get extra respect from Christians, it's Israel itself. Though I do think that some of the prejudices against Jews were more easily cast aside by the people taking on the extra regard for Israel.

There was also a vein of extra respect for Hebrew tradition and Jews as the chosen people within Pentecostal churches. I'm not sure the history of that, I just know it's there and was there earlier and stronger than in other Protestant traditions.

Defend Liberty!

As an evangelical Christian...

...I believe the primary reason is a misunderstanding of numerous prophecies relating to the role Israel plays in the endgame of the world, along with other passages that involve the words "blessed" and "children of Israel."

The problem with those passages as interpreted by many evangelicals, however, is that it is more or less spelled out in the New Testament that Christians are the "New Israel," which makes a lot more sense. Israel today is basically a secular European nation that landed in the Middle East.

Will it play a role in the endgame? I have no idea. Heck, by the time the endgame comes, we might very well be travelling the stars. Israel might not exist when the End comes, or it might control the entire Middle East. Beats me, so my main view is summed up by "End foreign aid, end foreign interference, get the United States' act together."