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Can an Evangelical Christian please explain the obsession and servitude towards Israel

Im being serious and non-Sarcastic.

I really want to know why certain Christians are so obsessed about bowing down to Israel and Jews? It would just seem to me that the people who denied Jesus to the point they helped Crucify him wouldn't be so high up on the "Favorites List"

and if we were to play this out in Biblical chronological order it would seem like the Jews are anticipating the coming of the Anti-Christ as there Messiah since they rejected Jesus as such. So besides indoctrination and propaganda is there any other reason why Christians see no wrong in Israel and Jews?

by the way I don't have nothing against Jews, I judge people on Character not labels but the idea that Israel and Jews can do no harm and can never be criticized is absolutely ridiculous and detrimental to peace and cooperation with one another.



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Abraham was not a Jew!

The descendants of Judah are Jews. Abraham was Judah's great grandfather and a Hebrew.

Spiritually speaking you could say that Abraham was the first Israelite. It is that spiritual Israel that the promise pertains too.

you are right & wrong

Abraham was a Hebrew."Israel" started with Jacob (renamed Israel).
"Spiritual" Israel is a myth started by religious Christianity. The Jewish people have been blinded by God to truth because they rejected Christ and their kingdom calling when they rejected His first Coming, and again at Pentecost - when they again rejected the message from the apostles concerning Christ. Now is the time of the Gentiles. Religion tries to mix the Law (Jewish - Circumcision Gospel via Peter)with Grace (Un-circumcision Gospel via Paul).This mix is what Paul refers to in Galations 1:6-7. One cannot keep both the Law & be under Grace. All sorts of error creeps in like "Israel worship".

You are right & wrong.

Scripture is very clear that sinners do not inherit the Kingdom and sin is the transgression of the Law. The teaching that we are under grace and not under the Law is a false teaching as it proposes that we need not be lawful and may willfully continue in sin.

By His GRACE we are given the opportunity for salvation through REPENTANCE of our sins. If we truly repent of our sins then we no longer willfully sin. And if we no longer sin then we are not under the penalty of the Law. It's that simple.

Galatians is not conducive to proper understanding and is the most quoted book by those who wish to continue in sin and expect salvation. They take the argument against physical circumcision as an argument against the covenant Law.

If you read the account of the Covenant that Israel agreed to in Exodus 20:1 - 24:2 you will see that circumcision is not mentioned at all. We are however supposed to be circumcised in our hearts as stated in Deuteronomy and Colossians.

You say we cannot keep the Law and be under Grace. I respectfully disagree and say that because of His Grace we are able to keep the Law.

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Much of what you say is true,

but Abraham was of the Old Testament, which really is nothing more than a collection of tribal law and folk history.
Would God want us to "protect" the devils work?
I have always believed that the devil plays his finest hand in Gods Word.

Looking Back

Looking back to when I was going to church regularly and participating in the faith, I thought about this some. Basically I understood that although Israel did not follow Jesus, I was of the understanding that they would eventually accept Jesus and be back in ´favor´ with God. After all, they were God´s chosen people. Couple that with the fact that most of the events in the bible took place in Israel so that the place of Israel was important. Meh, hope this helps.

Who is Christ?

Understand that and you'll have your answer. The vast majority of modern day Christians do not understand. This is the crux of the entire issue. It is the foundation of the faith yet so many are lost. Christ separated the old from the new, the worldly vs the spiritual, war vs peace. Even if you are an atheist you can recognize that Jesus was an actual person and that his message is one about love.

The entire basis of Christianity is actually at odds with Judaism. When Christ spoke he referenced the spiritual realm. He was never going to lead a physical battle to grant the Jews some random piece of desert. Judaism is as ethnocentric and humanistic as it gets; it couldn't be more different than Christianity. Christ was for all intents and purposes the libertarian of his day. we all have a choice in how to live our lives, but we cannot force others to do our bidding. We cannot force others to believe or live morally. "he who is without sin cast he first stone."

Today's church by and large does not understand Christ. It tries to justify its own beliefs with Christ's teachings. it's no different than anything else. People will twist anything so that it justifies their own beliefs. We a humans and are naturally inclined to think about earthly possessions and earthly belongings. Israel is NOT the chosen people or the promised land. They forfeited that long ago. They rejected the messiah in fair of legalism of the day.

Modern Judaism, as well as the Judaism of Jesus' day

Absolutely. However, He did promise his disciples they would reign over the 'twelve tribes of Israel'. ( Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30) They ask when will this be (Acts 1:6), and He states that it is not information for them to know now. So apparently, it is not completely forfeited.

Romans 11 will clarify the matter even further,: they may be 'hated' because of their rejection of Christ, but they are loved on account of the patriarchs. Paul, who was persecuted mercilessly by some of the religious leaders of the Jews, still loved them and was willing to trade his salvation for theirs! (if it were possible) (Romans 9, 10)

So how should we who are Christians treat the Jews? With compassion, grace, and an honest admission of how our attitudes may have hindered their reception of the Gospel.(Just as our 'Christian war mongering' has made enemies of Muslims, and hindered their reception of the Gospel)

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Yes--

Matthew 3:9 makes it clear what Jesus thought of "genes"--

(*humor intended*)

And Peter--(Acts 10:34), who was Jesus 'chief' disciple--

so, the fact is that God looks upon the heart (one scripture from the O.T. that is valid?)--
I Samuel 16:7, where it is made clear that God looks on the heart--

Jesus had promised to come to "His" people, so He didn't minister to the Gentiles in His earthly ministry, but He obviously loved those Gentiles who were drawn to Him; it is almost amusing how much He talks about how faithful they are, in several instances--

He was making a point there, too--

while He followed the law in ministering to the Jews, many of the Jews were hateful towards Him, and His Heart rejoiced in the faith of the non-Jews He met--

BUT, there are righteous Jews who are seeking to regain their standing with God. Does Jesus Christ love them? Most definitely! Do they still need to accept Him? Yes, of course. But those who speak against war and violence will more than likely know Him when He returns--

and accept Him as their Messiah--

because their hearts are more pure than those who seek power and delight in the shedding of blood--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Hear, hear,

Well said, and on the nail!

Cyril's picture

I like Isaiah 53:7-12.

I like Isaiah 53:7-12.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

that entire chapter is . . .

a 'gem'.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Unorthodox

theology, which is actually on the wane, is the reason.

In short terms

Jesus is going to return to Israel.

3 words

Joseph Massad has...

This is Good

Thank You..

Abel and Seth

Abel and Seth came first as the sons of Adam. They walked with God and yet the world had not know the names of God. What did it mean to walk with God before Jesus came? Before Moses and the revealing of the Ten Commandments? How did they know God and what name did they use to call God?

Noah walked with God and yet he also did not know of Jesus or Christianity or the ten commandments. God saved Noah. Of Noah was born Enoch. Enoch walked with God. He ascended.

Jesus reminded people how to walk with God by walking with them. He showed them The Way as a reminder. If Jesus and Enoch had a conversation about The Way, would they not agree with one another?

The Way has been revealed in a number of forms. Through example. Through law. Through reason.

God is MIND with SPIRIT. What Christians see as "God the Father" is MIND. What Christians describe as "The Holy Ghost" is the Spirit of Truth which gives wisdom as a gift. It is the Sheckinah, the SPIRIT of God. Jesus was the final aspect of God: INCARNATE in human form here on Earth. MIND + SPIRIT + MATTER. The Trinity.

I personally see it as a

I personally see it as a cynical trade off between pro-Israel con artist Christian hucksters and the Zionist power base, using useful idiots and suffering fools gladly for temporal advantage. There was some Scofield dude, way back when, who started it all. He probably realized the paydirt in pleasing err Zionist power and accepting lavish media attention for incorporating it into American Christianity. America is its cultural and media space very much a Jewish thing during the 20th century. It is a kind of cultural fusion of other strains of American cultural influence and the very influential Jewish element, and it is only natural American brands of Christianity would tend toward incorporating the broad sympathy with all things Jewish and Israel. Catholicism has naturally bended least to this influence as an institution of long standing, and an old world independent, power in itself. Catholicism is universal and is closest to real Christianity, despite the naysayers, and the least merely 'national' and and provincial mutations of Christianity. That is why the Church is most independent from US power and political influence and stood almost alone against the Iraq war and for a decent peace for the Palestinians. It is not a small dependent little fief of some national government like all the little American and protestant splinter forms of Christianity that have no power to develop their doctrine free from more temporary and narrow influences. The Church is not free from either corruption or outside national and cultural influences and popular cultural trends, but it is more free than most other christian Churches, besides perhaps eastern Orthodox. It gets worse and worse as they become more splintered and tiny, in which case they can become the mere personal tools of televangelist lunatics or people like Kony for that matter. For a modern American preacher with the con artists nose and a business sense, like Hagee or Falwell or Robertson, it is a no brainer to suck up to atheist Israel to get a temporary pass for all manner of insanity or absurdity. And it is in line with the typical dull witted American church goers already developed impression of Israel, recieved from his other church, Hollywood and television.

Ask the right questions if you want the truth

Im being serious and non-Sarcastic.

I really want to know why certain Christians are so obsessed about bowing down to Israel and Jews?

In my limited experience I've seen the posturing of various churches shift over the course of the 20th century away from promoting antisemitic doctrines. I have not noticed any bowing down, but I've noticed some observations that have come to the fore of discussions within the Christian community over the past few decades on this subject.

It would just seem to me that the people who denied Jesus to the point they helped Crucify him wouldn't be so high up on the "Favorites List"

Jesus is a Greek word. Jesus was actually Joshua and Joshua was a Hebrew. He was a reformer and won over a following of fellow Hebrews. The whole thing happened inside the Hebrew community. Christ is a Greek word from Christos = Messiah = Masiach in Hebrew.

After Joshua was crucified by the ROMAN PAGANS after being turned over to them by an adversarial Hebrew faction, Hebrews that followed Joshua traveled around the Roman Empire and met with Hebrew living outside Israel. These Hebrews were sometimes Hellenized Jews who spoke Greek and even celebrated their faith in Greek using Greek translations of the Hebrew. Aramaic was only really used in and around Israel.

A prophet arose outside of Israel who was a Roman citizen who spoke Greek but was a practicing Jew. His name was Saul. He studied to become a Pharisee, a rival faction of the Notztrim (Nazarenes) who were followers of Joshua. He had a spiritual experience and joined the Nazarenes after having been their persecutor. He used his Greek language skills and Roman citizenship to evangelize to Jews and Gentiles alike living outside Israel. Thus, Christianity was born.

and if we were to play this out in Biblical chronological order it would seem like the Jews are anticipating the coming of the Anti-Christ as there Messiah since they rejected Jesus as such. So besides indoctrination and propaganda is there any other reason why Christians see no wrong in Israel and Jews?

Who is more 'Christian'? Somebody who claims to be Jewish but is filled with love for their fellow human or someone who claims to be 'Christian' but is just a hater? If a rose were named else would it smell as sweet? Do fruits matter or mere words?

by the way I don't have nothing against Jews, I judge people on Character not labels but the idea that Israel and Jews can do no harm and can never be criticized is absolutely ridiculous and detrimental to peace and cooperation with one another.

I totally and completely agree!

Dispensationalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

I am a former

evangelical Christian...now reformed. I believe the answer is brainwashing, plain and simple.

I think the Israeli spokesperson Tzipora Menache put it best when she said:

"You know very well, and the stupid Americans know equally well, that we control their government, irrespective of who sits in the White House. You see, I know it and you know it that no American president can be in a position to challenge us even if we do the unthinkable. What can they (Americans) do to us? We control congress, we control the media, we control show biz, and we control everything in America. In America you can criticize God, but you can’t criticize Israel…” Israeli spokeswoman, Tzipora Menache

Unthinkable?

like 911 maybe?

Rothschild creates the counterfeit money

Thats why Israel looks so big. In fact IsUnReal Is just a puppet of the Jewish Zionist Rothschild family.

Its obout the money. Rothschild money controls the government throught false national debts fictionaly owed to their private corporate Fed Reaserve bank.

The same GOv that controls the extorted theft called TAX status of the Church.

Just one more Rothschild coruption.

sovereign

sharkhearted's picture

Its a brainwashing technique.

Coming from an Evangelical background....I can attest to this.

But that is where media like RT help balance the continuum by pointing out that the Israelis have demo-ed at least 12,000 Palestinian homes.

We might as well be at the Inquisition on that one and that is why I get so animated against people who I THOUGHT were my friends, like granger, who is for imprisoning and torturing a 19 year old for something he said on Facebook.

Bottom line is...the real thing that will win out... is the TRUTH.

There is no other guard....no defense...like the truth.

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

something he said?

If it was so innocent.. why not be PROUD and lift up what he said rather than brush it off?

Cyril's picture

No.

No.

(On this end, I can't, anyway. I have only one Lord, who isn't back on this earth yet, or I missed the meetup. As for the men around me on this same planet, no one will ever be my master whom I will subject myself to. "Sorry!")

...

Now, good luck with the answers... :)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I could write about

ten pages to explain the brainwashing hoax of Christian Zionism, which is taught using the apostate deceiving Rothschild influenced Scofield Reference Bible, but it is well explained in this documentary by former followers. Basically, the severely brainwashed followers believe they must protect Israel in order for their apostate prophecy of being chosen for 'rapture' by Christ before the Tribulation. http://vimeo.com/29901084
And, here is documented conections of Rothschild agents and the Scofield Reference Apostacy. It doesn't mention in this article, but Untermeyer, also, just so happened to write the laws protecting the Fed. http://proliberty.com/observer/20090507.htm

Wow

You really have no clue to what you are talking about. lol

As a Catholic

Bible study got me thinking that I would like to see the holy land. I really didn't know too much about it.

Ron Paul said, "Israel is our friend", and that got me wondering.. why?

I began studying Israel.. why is Israel our friend?

I've read different Christian perspectives.. Catholics really don't have much to say about Israel, I don't know why, seems every Catholic I talk to about Israel has a different take on it.

A Messianic Temple went up recently, so I stopped in a few times. VERY PRO-Israel. They turned me on to John Hagee.. he has an interesting vid.. four blood moons.

I do find a lot of serendipy about Israel on a personl level, so I have, in my own research, come to LOVE Israel. I am planning on going to Israel so I can form a physical opinion. As it is now, it's pretty "romantic". I get this feeling, that Israel calls it's own.. you either have some calling for Israel or you don't. I do.

I don't think Israel is heaven on Earth. I do appreciate it's stand for sovreignity. I'm really looking forward to my trip, which I hope can be for a few months.

I hope you reasearch is as facinating as it has been for me.

Excuse me but you are not

Excuse me but you are not really a Catholic. You are a pseudo Catholic. You pick and choose what you want - it is not even what you want but what the media wants you to want. Case in point:
a. Previous Pope denounced the situation of Palestinians. He said they were living in bad, isolated conditions.
b. John Paul IInd was against war with Iraq. When this happened this was one of the few times he was visibly angry.
c. John Paul IInd denounced the blockade against Cuba.
d. No catholic can be for torture under no circumstances.

Of course , being a truthful church Popes will denounce communism, gay pseudo marriage, abortion, etc. These are the parts that you pick the other ones you discard.

I am selective

I may be selective.. I don't know whcih denomination or order I would serve.. I still have much to learn.

My heart goes out the the Palestinians in the disputed territory. I hope to help build a home for Palestinians, and I hope to sponcer a scholarship for a Palestinian.. and I hope Palestine becomes a state, so the people have the ability to stabilize, rather than suffer under Palestinian AUTHORTY and Islamic AUTHORITY and UN AUTHORITY.. it may be easier to blame Israel when facing THREE GOLIETH AUTHORITES.. but Israel in not the problem, a state for Palestine is the solution.