13 votes

Trial Begins for Christians Arrested for Reading Bible Outside California DMV

MURRIETA, Calif. – The criminal trial for three men who were arrested for reading the Bible aloud outside of a California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) office began on Monday.

The incident occurred in February 2011 when Pastor Brett Coronado, Mark Mackey and Edward Florez, Jr. went to the DMV in Hemet early one morning to evangelize those who were waiting for the facility to open. As they stood on the public sidewalk, Mackey began to read out loud from the Bible.

However, soon after, he was approached by a security officer at the DMV, who asked him to move elsewhere.

Read more here...

http://christiannews.net/2013/08/05/trial-begins-for-christi...

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Preacher should have asked the cop

"if you were to die today are you a hundred percent sure you are going to heaven or would there be some doubt"?

The founding fathers were

The founding fathers were naive idealists and didn't realize that freedom of speech might allow someone to say something I don't like. Now that we know they do sometimes say things I don't like, the first amendment needs to go. Call the police in and shut them up. The Constitution is a living document, and needs to be changed as we learn more about life.

This is a facetious comment, by the way, in case you are confused.

How can they be impeding the business if it's not even open yet?

Re: "he put them both in handcuffs, citing them for “impeding an open business.”"

and

Re: "...[they] went to the DMV in Hemet early one morning to evangelize those who were waiting for the facility to open."

How can they be impeding an open business if it's not even open yet?
Does the phrase "open for business" seem relevant? If they are not open for business, what business is there to impede?

abolish the dmv, problem solved

the cop was being a total statist authoritarian dick but that's normal. if they were on a public street then i don't think there's a law against being an annoying street preacher. maybe disturbing the peace but it looks like they got him on a code violation of some kind. god can't protect you from the long arm of the law. good luck with the case though.

“Call on God, but row away from the rocks.”
Hunter S. Thompson

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
#standwithrand

I'm all about freedom

of speech, but come on. I don't want to listen to a sermon while I'm stuck in line at a DMV. Should a Christian have to listen to the Rig Veda, the Koran, or some Scientology bable being read aloud while they are forced to be in line at a DMV? No! Golden Rule people.

I AM is all that is. Everything else is malleable.

I don't want to hear traffic

I don't like the sound of motor vehicles while I'm stuck in line at the DMV. Arrest all the drivers.

Golden Rule is not law, it's a moral suggestion. What IS Law, is the 1st Amendment. As long as you're not committing fraud or violence or impeding on someone else's rights, you are not committing a crime.

And "annoying non-believers" isn't fraud or violence. NO one has the right to "not be offended" or annoyed.

Excellent point! Arrest

Excellent point! Arrest anyone who says anything I don't want to hear.

I agree

I want you arrested because I can read what you are saying, and I don't like it cause I disagree with it. In fact, arrest me too cause you have to read my opinion and you probably don't like it either, and I want to be fair about this. lol ;)

If you are confident

in your beliefs it shouldn't matter.

I have to listen to secular humanism every where I go in this country and I am still doing ok. I just ignore it.

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

I guess I'm different in that regard. As long as someone isn't

being vulgar, I like to hear what they have to say. I love to discuss and stretch my brain. If these preachers are anything like me, they would have welcomed an open discussion with their listeners. And to think, we don't even know if any of the listeners even complained.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

I agree

If one is really concerned about someone coming out of the darkness and into the glorious Light of Truth, that being that there is salvation in no other than Jesus Christ, and you want to tell them ( as a large group in public ), then the best way to do that is to "offer" them a gospel tract.

They can choose to take one and read it ( over and over if they wish ) at their convenience, or to not take one... and then you move on.

Peace

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

I believe I am with you. For me it would be just as bad

as listening to rap blaring it at me out of the open window of his driving by car. I think they were being obnoxious and rude.

I don't think they needed to be cuffed, just ask 'em to shut up and myob.

SequoiaTrees4RonPaul

so..........

if these guys were on their cell phones quoting Bible verses, would it be different? NO

I have been in line with people spewing profanity on their cell phone while in line, I guess since I was in line I was "captive" - I don't think so, that silly.

If they were on an airplane - thats captive, if they were in the hospital - thats captive etc.

If those same people in line were surrounded by people wearing bible verse on their shirts and didn't say a word, would they be breaking the law?

Absolutely not, the PoPo and government is freaking out of control.

"If they were on an airplane

"If they were on an airplane - thats captive, if they were in the hospital - thats captive etc."

So if I HAVE to go to some stupid place and renew some pointless arbitrary paper work that the government wants, under penalty of fine or imprisonment, I'm not captive?

if these guys were on their cell phones quoting Bible verses, would it be different? NO

No the correct answer is yes.
If they were talking to other people on their cell phones their intent would be, hypothetically, to talk to someone on the other end of the line about their religion. That's ok. I'll suffer through someone having a phone conversation in my vicinity when we're all captives. If they're there to talk AT me exclusively while I'm stuck at some stupid line then that's fucked.

I smoke. I put my cigarette out if kids are within eyesight. And I stay away from people who don't like smoke as best I can while I do it; I don't want to impose unnecessarily on folks.

Some people think your religion stinks, don't blow it in our faces. If you have a good religion, you don't need to go preach it at the DMV. If you need to SELL me on it, and the only way you can SELL me on it, is for me to be a captive audience, then what you're selling is crap.

There is no right to drive

Unfortunately the government says its not a right, and therefore standing in line at the DMV is not a right, in addition there are many DMV's. Just like post offices, so you're not captive.

But wether its captive or not really doesn't matter, freedom of speech on a public sidewalk is protected under the constitution.

I may not like the t-shirt your wearing or what your tattoo says while in line or even the BS propaganda every main stream news outlet is spewing, and basically I'm a captive audience all of them in one way or another.

If I drive down the street and am deaf and all I see are billboards with atheist propaganda on them that I do not want to see am I captive? Or is it only people who hear that are captive?

Captive is a strong word

but these guys were certainly taking advantage of their audience really needing to stay there. People waiting in line outside are doing it to miss as little work as possible and leaving would mean being late another day. If they weren't about imposing themselves on people who would experience consequences by getting away from them, they would have picked somewhere people could leave more easily.

Defend Liberty!

The issue isnt if they were

The issue isnt if they were preaching and thus impeding a business. The problem lies in the fact that public places like this exist. There should be no government dmvs or any government property. City steets can easily be managed the same way a closed gate community or covenant works. Each creates there own rules...they being the business owners that have to maintain the area. Then they can prohibit preaching or allow it.

Xori is right - and the title is misleading

They were not arrested for "reading the Bible". Why must you lie?

The other poster was correct in that, while government owned, a DMV is a point of transactions. It is a matter of freedom of movement. In a park, or a city block, a person who does not wish to listed can walk around, go a different way, cross the street, etc.... The people in line at the DMV don't have a choice. They are in essence a captive audience. They also don't have a choice to be there or not, they are compelled to do business with the state by state regulations.

Removing choice is not libertarian philosophy.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

From what I could see on the video, the preachers were on the

street corner merely FACING the DMV. I am not lying. People who pull up to stop at a traffic light are a 'captive audience'--does that mean we cannot hold Ron Paul signs or inform people about the federal reserve, etc.? You seem like you have an axe to grind because those being accosted are Christians. Christians should have free speech rights under libertarian philosophy.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Nope

A public street corner at a stoplight is fine, the people will be driving on. And, they are inside their private property while I as a Ron Paul person am on a public way. Now, if I was impeding people from walking down the sidewalk that is another story.

I have no "axe to grind". I merely pointed out that you lied in your title and that the arrest is justified, though I doubt a conviction will be anything major. You are right, every INDIVIDUAL has free speech rights. We true libertarians do not see people as groups - I believe I heard Ron Paul say that somewhere....

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

Mohusk your wrong

already went to the Supreme Court in Westboro Baptist Church

There people are absolutely stuck at a funeral and are a captive audience, still the SCOTUS ruled that the members have a right to demonstrate at dead soldiers funerals.

I'm reading

about the SCOTUS Westboro ruling:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2056613,00.html

I think Mohusk and the arresting officer are right (I watched the video) about captive audience, which SCOTUS upheld in Frisby vs. Shultz. The captive audience argument was tried by the family for the Westboro case but didn't work because the justices said the picketers were gathered lawfully, under police supervision and stayed well away from the memorial service, some 1,000 feet away. And due to the nature of the funeral the speech was protected.

The pastors at the DMV are different. They're not 1,000 feet away and their message hasn't anything to do with the proceedings at the DMV. I'd be curious to ask those pastors if they would be OK standing in line at the DMV themselves and having someone open a Koran and start reading loudly the way they did.

rpcongress

you are missing a huge part of the Westboro ruling vs the people reading the Bible.

Westboro protests are at private events on private property (non-tax payer based) in many cases, not all.

The Bible readers are on a public street and public sidewalks. The fact is a captive audience is not the same as an annoyed audience for God haters going into the DMV or employees of the DMV itself.

There are plenty of DMV offices, not just one, they are not captive. In addition, Bible readers are no more annoying than other people in line talking on their cell phones. It's no different than petitioning or signature gathering at a public location, the SCOTUS have ruled that it's unconstitutional to prevent petitioning in public spaces and most private spaces that are accessible to the general public.

I have done a lot of petitioning and signature gathering and I can assure you although the police might have tried to chase me off, I knew the law. At questionable locations where we had been chased off, our attorney for the company would have some nice paperwork, called a court order that was given to us the very next day that we happily showed the PoPo when they came back to try to kik us out., saying they can't do that.

Thanks

Beat me to it.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

Hmm Believe Government Officials in Black Robes

They also said ObamaCare was Constitutional because it is a tax .. So to tell you the truth these people are criminals as well. Oh i forgot the Kelo decision on eminent domain .. so who gives a Bleep what they think

Not sure about this one

If it was my property and I asked them to leave and they didn't, I would want them arrested.

Now, I understand that the DMV is a state-owned property, so different rules apply. However, the DMV is a functional property, similar to a place of business; it's not like they were at a public place like a park reading the bible. At the DMV, you're trying to get people in and out and get stuff done. If they are disturbing this, then I would say the state has the right to remove them from the property.

Think about it this way: if they were doing this at a McDonalds, we would say that McDonalds has the right to ask them to leave their property. But why wouldn't the DMV have the same right?

Disclaimer: I didn't watch the video (at work), so if there's something I'm blatantly missing as a result, I apologize.

From what I could see on the video, the preachers were on the

street corner merely facing the DMV, so as far as free speech it's no different than holding Ron Paul signs or speaking about the fed, etc.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

the more important question is should the government make you

get a license to drive at the DMV? :-)

That's a State

function, which is permitted under the 10th Amendment. I don't see how it's unconstitutional.

just said

government, didn't say state or fed.

Just because something is a state law, doesn't make it right.

We went many many years without drivers licenses.

We even went a few years without licensing vehicles.

If a state made you take a test and get a license to ride a bicycle would that be okay with it? How about registering your gun?

I personally say no need.