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Stefan Molyneux: The Biggest Obstacle to the Liberty Movement




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Bit of a stretch, isn't it?

The Liberty Movement thinks the anti-aggression principal is an obstacle?

Perhaps he takes it to an extreme for some, but how is that blocking something?

I was raised with spanking, and felt it normal behavior for a parent.
But, since when does precedent make something right?

Some of his points are valid, and worth consideration. Would anyone feel that spanking an infant is justified? At what time does it become a viable behavior correction tool?

Observe an animal (most any higher mammal will do) raise it's young. They use spanking, in the form of nips and bites.

Is the spanking behavior in humans a throwback to the animal instincts? Is there a better way, especially since humans have better tools than higher mammals, chiefly, language?

Molyneux may have some provocative opinions, but I hardly see him as blocking anything. I think he is attempting to cure society of it's ill's by starting from square one.

Is spanking so important a tool that it blocks the mind from considering new ideas so vehemently that all reason, and an entire philosophical movement can be derailed?

If the headline was an example of "elasticity", bravo. ;)

Just open the box and see

If Molyneux were more prominent...

...he would be a major obstacle to the libertarian movement, because he's a hack with a very checkered past. Woe to us if we were to follow him or he were to be our public face.

See: http://www.fdrliberated.com/

As to the content of this video in particular: self-improvement is a false cure to our problems. No amount of being nice and friendly and cooperative amongst ourselves and not spanking our children will free any of us from tyranny. Molyneux is the pied piper of libertarianism.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

And what IS the answer,

And what IS the answer, appealing to the constitution?

How's that been workin' out for ya?

Anybody moving in the right direction is on MY team, and that includes SM.

Never trouble trouble til trouble troubles you. Fortune Cookie

Nothing we do matters unless we change the laws.

That has to be the goal, or this movement has no purpose.

How do we change the laws? By getting our people elected.

End of story.

Stephan is like one of those gurus in the 60s who told people they could bring about world peace by loving one another...it's delusional escapism, nothing more. The DoD didn't give a shit back then how many hippies meditated naked in the Haight Ashbury, they were still going to drop bombs in Vietnam. Likewise, our present rulers don't give a rat's ass about how much you love yourself or how well you get along with your parents, they will still tax, regulate, and indefinitely detain the living hell out of you whether you like it or not.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Fine, you go work on that and

Fine, you go work on that and let Stefan work on his thing. One or both of you might make headway, which will be great!

What's the point of fighting with somebody who's on the same team?

Never trouble trouble til trouble troubles you. Fortune Cookie

First, if you post an opinion

First, if you post an opinion on a forum, expect others people to post theirs in response (I know it works differently in the Stephan-bubble at FDR). I didn't create an anti-Molyneux thread, I just responded to a pro-Molyneux one.

Second, I question whether we're on the same team. I think Stephan is on team Stephan.

Third, even if Stephan is really trying to advance libertarianism, he's going about it the wrong way. I feel the need to say something because I don't want to see people choose Stephan's path over Ron Paul's.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Well, one characteristic that

Well, one characteristic that distinguishes libertarians from others is that we each use our own minds and resist being herded. We're nobody's "bot", in other words.

That's good, because, well, let me suggest that there is more than one way to further the cause.

There's nothing wrong with libertarians lobbying other libertarians to rally to what they think is the best way to move the movement forward, but do we have to denigrate others who have chosen other paths?

Back in the day we used the term "fellow travelers" to describe those with whom we shared goals but disagreed with in regards to method. It's a term of inclusion, not exclusion, and if we're ever going to achieve the critical mass necessary to change the laws, we need to include.

Never trouble trouble til trouble troubles you. Fortune Cookie

Haha I was about to say "good

Haha I was about to say "good point" and then he came in with some dumb ass an-cap sh!t you KNEW was coming. "Non-aggression principle in the home" LOL. He's unaware that we're tied to the GOP I guess.

Ventura 2012

What if we could show them?

What if we could show them? Good Luck. Human behavior hasn't changed in ten thousand years and it never will. Just show them that goddamn piece of paper.

It's called the US Constitution!

Human behavior hasn't changed

Human behavior hasn't changed in ten thousand years and never will?

150 years ago people OWNED other people in THIS country. Not that it's utopia here now, but come on, surely you'll admit that there's been progress.

Individual people grow throughout their lives and in much the same way society can become more enlightened over time, and has.

Not that we don't have a ways to go yet, but the idea that society can't progress is beyond ridiculous.

Never trouble trouble til trouble troubles you. Fortune Cookie

ConstitutionHugger's picture

I promise to be nicer

I've been a bad, bad kook. I just thought that no one was paying any attention to me anyway.

Infighting is the biggest

Infighting is the biggest problem, spanking? really?! I don't have time for this garbage

https://twitter.com/StonewallDP

Support these Liberty Candidates and find and add more !
http://www.dailypaul.com/287246/2014-liberty-candidate-thread

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Interesting points

But spanking wasn't one of them.

Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."

You don't find it interesting

That many libertarians say the initiation of violence is wrong, while hitting their children at the same time?

I see your arguement

It's just that I don't equate spanking with starting wars or beating people up.

I hope I don't have to spank my children but I don't think that this option should be removed from parents.

Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."

montessori method

In addition, Montessori views kids as individuals with full human rights and status. Yes, they are at a different developmental stage, but we treat them with dignity and respect. Witness the sushi example above. And it is mirrored in the "positive discipline" techniques Montessori schools promote. It is manifest in how even toddlers are treated: they are given roles in the school, in the family — helping set the table, clear the table, and so on within their capacities. I was raised to think of spanking as normal; if you understand that children develop naturally then usually if they do something that "calls for a spanking" this is a sign the parent has gone astray in the rearing or environment prepared for the child, or inattention to his needs at this stage of his development (good resources include Redirecting Children’s Behavior and Parenting With Love and Logic).
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2011/04/stephan-kinsella/public-s...

You should really see some of

You should really see some of Molyneux's stuff. Some of it you'll find downright insane, but his spanking research is spot on.

And yes, it does equate to that, no joke. Kids who grew up being spanked are more likely to grow up having every characteristic we hate in a society.

Please, read up on his spanking stuff, it's very shocking.

What if spanking is the origin of authoritarian violence?

Why do so many adults believe that starting wars and initiating violence is evil for most, but righteous and necessary for their government? Could it be because they were beaten with paddles as children, while at the same time being told that hitting people is wrong? Where do we learn to accept the hypocritical arguments of violent authority figures?

First

I find slang offensive language, violent. Thus, when you talk about a PEACE principle, incorporating foul language, undermines your point.

Second.. The British accent does not make me think: RESTORE THE REPUBLIC TO CONSTITUTION GOVERNMENT, but Rather, ENFORCE the UN Agenda globalization with LibertarianISM.

Ron Paul's message began with a rEVOLution, which the Liberty Movement divided, by enforcing reason why NOT to join Ron Paul, and take his message to join the GOP to heart, to become the government one wants to have.

Rather, the Liberty Movement took Ron Paul's message, actually TOOK THE MESSAGE, ripped it off, fought the very Ron Paul supporters who were fighting the GOP and Democratic party, as you do here, for your own agenda.. LibertarianISM on a GLOBAL level, as if being a Libertarian means standing for principle, no candidates, no party, no way to WIN an election..

Instead of fighting those who want to fight (MSM the GOP), you focus the fight against those who are fighting FOR peace.

This vid, makes it very clear to me, that the Liberty Movement is not organic, but by design by those who want a global goverenment, after all.. how good is Britain doing installing LibertarianISM?

Why not lead the way in Britian and let Americans lead America?

WOW you are ignorant white

WOW you are ignorant white trash...keep it up in your irrelevant norcal GOP, "power" wielder.

And this is from someone who trashed Molyneux but I will defend him from the likes of you.

Ventura 2012

Show your true colors

hate doesn't become you no matter how much you LOVE to wear it.

Its an Irish accent, peppered with some boston and some canadian

Just saying.

Séamusín

He's Canadian

I'm Australian

Who cares we are all after the same thing. Freedom from government intervention.

Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."

I care.

And no, really, "we" are not after the same thing. The rEVOLution is NOT after the same thing as the Liberty Movement. The rEVOLution is about restoring the constitution, not being a global representative of government.

If I do a search on Duel Citizen politicians, I get pages of Duel Israeli/US citizens.. and none from the UK, Canada, Austrailia.

Why is that?

The UK formed the PATHETIC EU, one of the most horrendous crimes known to human culture, in human history.

I have no doubt we have many duel citizenships in politics, but they remain well covered because the M15, like any 007, is very good at deception, inception, just look what THEY did to Palestine.. today American troops spill their blood for oil shipments, not to the USA, but to the UK and China.

I don't know a nation on Earth more entangled in the affairs of other people's nations than the UK, which USES Americans as their pawns.. some have the audacity to tell me to my face, we are a colony, have always been a colony, and to be honest, I completely believe the UK believes we are a colony, and are a HUGE influence on this UN AGENDA.

How many Americans are particpating in UK, Canadian, Austrailian Parliments? But I have yet to work an election where Candandians, Austrailians and British are not involved on some level.

So at this point, I have no doubt the Liberty Movement was designed to undermind the rEVOLution, to STOP the Restoration of the Republic, and weaken us for a Global Government.

I said we are after the same thing not that we are the same

Can agree that the UK are too involved with the business of other counties just like the US and also Australia is with our neighbours.

Why do you think that the Liberty Movement was designed to undermine the revolution?

The liberty movement is just a term to describe the idea's of Ron Paul, Libertarianism and the campaign known as the revolution.

Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."

Simply put

The rEVOLution is all about RESTORING THE REPUBLIC with the GOP.

The Liberty Movement is about redefining LIBERTARIANISM for a global government, which is why it's designed to fail politically.

I am convinced the GOP is fighting to lose, to give America ONE PARTY (Democratic as they continue to want to Nation build and Democranize the world) to represent the US in the UN Agenda.

Ron Paul foiled that, by swelling the GOP with Libertarians and Indys, who really want to RESTORE THE REPUBLIC to constitutional government, and sovreignity.

I think it's a good fight, and what's more, I'm fighting to win.

I like the way you think

Yes people are going to twist the movement to suit their needs. That said more people in the world who identify as libertarians is a good thing for restoring the republic.

Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."

Ditto Kiddo

I enjoy reading your comments, and it could be that more people in the world who identify as libertarians are a good thing to restore the republic, or maybe establish one for their own country.. Imagine the UK libertarian.. now THAT would be something!

The non-aggression principle

The non-aggression principle is how we maintain liberty, the golden rule is how to achieve it. Charity is the solution we are looking for.

http://www.secretofliberty.org

Charity?

What do you mean? You're looking for a hand out?