15 votes

Freemasons, I'm joining. Well, thinking about it. Your thoughts?

As simple as the title, I've been skeptical, and I've studied intensely for over a week on the matter. I think I want to be a part of the group that started the Boston Tea Party, had a large number of generals including George Washington during the Revolutionary War be Masons, as well as helping Gallieao against the church in spreading truth. That's a good track record. Plus, 9 signers of the Declaration of Independence, several signers of the Constitution and 14, I think, presidents of the U.S.

Why not be a member when their history lines up so well with what I believe in, based on things like I mentioned above.

There are obviously the occult symbols, so on, so forth, that I think are misunderstood, like much of libertarianism.

Your thoughts oh powerful Daily Paul?

Sincerely,

PL

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"My humble advice to you

"My humble advice to you would be to stay as far away from the Masons as you possibly can."

Really? Tell me more. I didn't get the memo when I joined over ten years ago. Explain to me, as a 32º Mason what I am supposed to know about this "clever disguise" to fool the "unenlightened" masses as to it's true purpose."

I would love to hear about it so I can reconsider.

"worship is no other than Lucifer himself" Talk to me about this lucifer guy. Who is he? Do you even know what lucifer means? Do you have the slightest clue, other than the distorted nonsense propagated by the church to stifle free thinking?

We know you are not, but I'll give you a shot. But since I doubt you will, let me give you some historical facts.

Lucifer means LIGHT BEARER. Just do your research. The association with "Satan and the devil" has been added later with no factual association. All three terms have distinct meaning. Devil meaning a God, either good or bad, Satan meaning "opponent" or "adversary" and Lucifer meaning "Light Bringer/bearer" or the "Planet Venus" which was referred to as the light bringer in the morning.

Lucifer also has been interpreted to mean the King of babylon, which Isaiah 14.12 refers to in a sarcastic way. I.e. That people were happy to see the Almighty King of Babylon lose the thrown so they laughed at him saying "oh the Almighty enlightened one (Lucifer).

Isaiah 14:12-15:

“How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer,[a] son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,I will be like the Most High.’ Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit."

The verse is a reference to how people felt. They were happy to see the dead King, who saw himself as the bright one fall from grace. I.e. you're not so great now after all that you are dead.

Now, back to Lucifer. When you hear the expression of someone being really smart or "bright" they mean they are enlightened. I.e Light = knowledge. She/he is really bright. They shine. They are enlightened. When masonry refers to lucifer they mean someone that is bright, smart and knowledgeable. Has nothing to do with eating babies like some ignorant people think.

Now, you can believe what you want, but you really have ZERO factual basis for it.

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

Hmm, seems like everything I

Hmm, seems like everything I read about how anti-Christian Masonry was was correct.

Ventura 2012

No clue what that means..

No clue what that means..

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

Anti-Masons say that Masons

Anti-Masons say that Masons study Lucifer and secrets on esoteric religions. You seem to have proved the point. So it's not Christian, its ecumenical/pagan/witchcraft/Rosicrucian. You're literally sitting around discussing why Christianity is wrong about Lucifer who was actually good, lol.

If you've read "Secret Societies" by David Barrett(or any Mason apologist for that matter) you will hear two contradictions in tandem that mimic the MSM propaganda tactics:

1. Masonry is not anti-Christian, you paranoid you.
2. Sure Masonry teaches pagan mysticism(thereby anti-Christian) but you're a bigot if you have a problem with it.

Similarly, the MSM:

1. You're paranoid if
you think the gov has NSA snoooping.

2. You're a square kook it you have a problem with it.

Ventura 2012

I am curious

as a 32 degree mason can you tell us about the oaths you have taken, please.

How many?

general consequences for not upholding your oaths? (Now you cannot share verbatim cause it is a secret)

Would your masonic oath supersede your duty to country?

Thank you for providing facts outside of the "stuff" one hears on the net.

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

Denise B's picture

I have done my research

my friend, and the Bible makes it clear that the Devil, Satan and Lucifer are one and the same. You yourself have admitted that Lucifer is sometimes described as the light bearer, and the Bible refers to Him also as an "angel of light". Please consider the following verses... they use the terms Devil, Satan and Lucifer but clearly are referencing the same being, using different names:

2 Corinthians 11:14 "and marvel not; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations."

Luke 10:18 "and he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightening fall from Heaven"

Acts 26:18 "to open their eyes, and to turn them from the power of darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins.."

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world, he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were cast with him"

Those are only several of many references which make it clear that Lucifer, Devil, Satan, Serpent or Dragon all are names which refer to the same being...God's enemy and the deceiver of the whole world.

To worship any of them is a damnable offense: Matthew 4:10 "Then saith Jesus unto him, get thee hence, Satan, for it is written, thou shall worship only the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

These are all direct references from the Bible and there are more I can provide if you would like to see them. In no instance, is the term "devil" referenced in a good sense, it is always negative and the Devil (capital D) is always referencing Satan or Lucifer specifically.

Do not allow yourself to be deceived and I say that with concern and sincerity. To worship any being, of any name, other than God and His Son will ultimately lead to the destruction of your soul.

You must also question anything that requires secrecy, to the point of the threat of physical harm should you divulge your secrets. If what they are doing is good and for the benefit of mankind, why must it be done so in secret?

Why secrecy?

To avoid religious persecution.

Denise B's picture

Why would

anyone want to persecute a person or group because they are charitable and work for the betterment of humanity? Isn't that what the freemasons claim to be all about? Who has sought to persecute them for their stated goals? And if that truly is their goal, there are no logical reasons to keep anything secret at all. There are a lot of organizations out there that promote similar stated goals (Salvation Army, Red Cross, etc.) and none of these organizations participate in secret rites and rituals which includes the threat of having your tongue ripped out if you divulge any of their said secrets. The fear of religious persecution doesn't quite ring true either, especially because we do have a 1st Amendment in this country which protects all people's rights to worship as they choose, or not at all (although that clause does seem to protect Christians less and less these days).

Freemasonry is not and has never been a charity

Being charitable is an aspect, however it is not a charity. The Salvation Army, Red Cross, and the Rotary Club don't deny the authority of the church.

Pope Leo XIII said it best, "They allow no dogma of religion or truth which cannot be understood by the human intelligence, nor any teacher who ought to be believed by reason of his authority"

Freemasonry considers the opinions of religious leaders to be irrelevant. Even mentioning them in a meeting is forbidden. I can't think of a greater insult to the authority of the church.

Leo hypocritically calls out Masonic charity, "They speak of their zeal for a more cultured refinement, and of their love for the poor; and they declare their one wish to be the amelioration of the condition of the masses, and to share with the largest possible number all the benefits of civil life."

Leo's church, and all other religions, do exactly the same thing for exactly the same reasons Freemasonry does. Religious leaders view Freemasonry as a threat to their power because it uses all of the same tactics and makes the same promises they do.

Freemasonry is older than the United States and the bill of rights. It was created a world where no one had a right to worship as they choose and the consequences of heresy were as gruesome as the Masonic obligations.

Governor Bogg's Extermination Order

The 1st amendment didn't protect the Mormons from state sponsored extermination.

I "worship" the Morning Star, Jesus

Even Biblical scholars say that "lucifer" is mistakenly appropriated to Satan. The references you cite are talking about Babylonian kings.

Either way, I personally don't find any secrets or magic in mythologies.

Check out http://ronpaulforums.com for activism and news.

So you hide your light in the darkness of secrecy

Sophistry, I suppose you can justify anything. The Feds and their masters have done worse...

I am for freedom of association or not to associate. But please lay off the b.s.

Horse sense is what a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. W.C. Fields

I have no clue whatsoever

I have no clue whatsoever what you just wrote..... or even what you are referring to.

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

Why don't YOU, Brian Middleton, Master Mason, enlighten us?

Since your fraternity is so good, and all they want to do is spread light, truth, and good... Why not teach people? Go public.

Why not let all the world's people know the truth about their own history?
Is it because knowledge is so powerful, it must be kept from the wrong hands?
That is BS!

Pharoah and Caesar and every Monarch and dictator ever, KEPT knowledge FROM the people specifically because it was POWER over them!
If the people had the knowledge they wouldn't need Pharoah, and his Priest class!

Secrets are kept because of witch trials?
Are Masons witches?
Yes, indeed, The Craft, is essentially Magick.
Thanks for your honesty. (sarcasm)

Church persecution?
Yes, that's true, BUT... Masonry is much, much older than the Roman Catholic Church... And the Secrecy goes back to (before) Hiram Abiff... Jubilee, Jubilah, Jubilum... Those darn Ju's.

Are the rest of us just not worthy???
Who are you people to decide that?!?
You aren't the discoverers of this knowledge, just the caretakers.
Revelation is here, now.

If Masons are so good why not tell the true history of the world as they have known it, and have kept secret?

Anyway... Knowledge, and Wisdom, are two different things. Some knowledge is not worth having, and some things cannot be undone.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

When the US Government

When the US Government becomes so tyrannical and corrupt that you have to meet in secret with others just to express your disapproval of them, then maybe you will begin to get the picture. Until then, you won't.

This statement shows you really don;t know about masonry: "Why not let all the world's people know the truth about their own history?"

The fact that you are mocking a time where people did indeed get beheaded, burned, tortured etc for simply believing other things that what the church promoted is not very big of you.

Why don't you read this about your heroes:

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/RomanCatholic-Church-in...

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

I'm not mocking anything. And I'm no fan of the Roman Church

I am Messianic Jewish.

I actually agree that a Counter-Secret-Society may be needed to resist the NWO, which I'm pretty sure Masons are behind.

But that "secret society" of American patriots would not be based on some ancient religion and occult symbols, but on the very clear and present principles of individual liberty that we as Americans hold dear.

An underground resistance, is not the same thing as a Cult.

Besides all that, and the fact that you ignored my main point, by simply writing it off as "this statement shows (I) really don't know about masonry", we (the liberty movement) are doing a very good job of countering the NWO and the infilth-traitors in our gov't, just the way we are right now, openly spreading the truth, exposing the lies, shedding LIGHT on the DARKNESS!

We may eventually need to go underground to resist the NWO, but right now, we are winning out in the open!

If you don't want to bring dishonor to your Order, I suggest you actually provide some logical points, to the questions I posed to you in my previous comment.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

THen why are you taking issue

THen why are you taking issue with a group of people that tried to fight against tyranny, freedom of thought, speech and ideas? They had to form a secret society of they would have been killed... I am not sure why this concept is so hard for some to understand, but I guess you apply how we live today to how they lived 100s of years ago, which is a BIG mistake.... back then the Church was the Stalin, Hitler of today...

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

Way to completely ignore everything I said.

You should be a politician. Do they train you guys on how to BS people?

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

I stated it clearly enough.

If you have light, why shroud it in the darkness of secrecy? The Bible can be quoted for anything or attached to almost you want in justification, it is just this interpretation you hold as the (your) truth.
Humble sir, I think not.
The W.C. Fields quote is apt on the pretentious and vanity of the human condition.
As long as it voluntary, enjoy, but nothing is certain, except for death itself. So please keep the preaching to a minimal.
Peace, freedom, prosperity and thanks.

Why a need for secrecy you

Why a need for secrecy you say? How about in places where you get killed if you express certain beliefs? Like when people were burned at the stake for questioning religion? Do you even have the slightest clue why Masonry and the Illuminati were founded. Not related in anyway btw.

Well, back then they were not allowed to express their thoughts like you and I are today. They would be hung or burnt, so they HAD to create secrete places and societies to meet to exchange ideas, liek that led to this country's foundation.

Soon you will have to form secret societies here to figure out what to do with our of control GOvernment that spies on us. Then ask why then.

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

Join and then give us the

Join and then give us the scoop. :-)

2B1 ASK1

I was always told for that to go recruiting was not allowed. The candidate had to ask.

Just like you have to invite a vampire...

into your home or he cannot enter...

You have to sell your soul to Lucifer, he cannot just take it.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

I've studied it for several years

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I've read books written by Manly P. Hall (The Lost Keys of Freemasonry and other Works, The Secret Destiny of America, and I've read through some of the Secret Teachings of All Ages). I've also read other books by current authors who are 33 degree masons. I myself am not one, but have contemplated joining for several years.

I have a friend who is a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Freemason who is also a church musician and devout Christian. He told me that if I joined, I would be given a lot of interesting "untold" American history (and Western History, for that matter).

"Christian and Mason??? That can't be true, because I've read blah blah blah" may be a typical response to the above claim, but here is my take on the fraternity.

Freemasonry is many things: A fraternity, a philosophy, and a RELIGIOUS organization, but NOT a religion in and of itself. Many Christians that join eventually leave because they find themselves praying to God, but not to Jesus. The Religious Fraternity believes in God, but it does NOT promote one denomination of religion, let alone Christianity. Again, this is what separates Religion from Religious Institution. Remember, all Christians are religious, but not all religious people are Christians.

In terms of the philosophy, it's filled with beautiful poetry, symbolism, allegory, and parables on how to be better people.

It is also shrouded in secrecy, which attracts criminals. The reason that many "bad" people (and they really are bad people) join Masonry is because they enjoy the secrecy that is involved with the organization. This doesn't make the philosophy bad, it makes the people that pervert the philosophy bad.

Good people are Masons, too. My friend (and others that I know) are living proof.

So join, if you feel that you would like to be part of a fraternity that takes part in the oldest known mysteries of Western though. Join if you're interested in history that is hidden from the public. Join if you want to meet new people, make new connections, and open your mind.

Be aware, however, that it is a definite possibility that someone might try to corrupt you.

As long as you never lose track of who YOU are, it seems like Freemasonry might be a great idea.

Take care

A Christian who takes secret oaths?

Sorry that is a fail.

peAce

Liberty = Responsibility

manly p. hall

influenced me to join freemasonry.

join

join

.

Im pretty sure freemasonry is just a competitor to television

And it mostly lost out. Try and use it to make business connections tho.

If you are now free..

Why would you submit to a hierarchy?

If you know you are not free because this hierarchy exists, why would you join those who have been taking advantage of your ancestors?

What are the chances that the group you are joining will turn on you, a new comer, once they have had their way with the larger group of "insignificant" others?

Parasites will feed of each other once their are no hosts to support them.

Think about that..

Most Masons (i.e. mob) will be in for a big surprise once they recognize how insignificant their ties really are. I will feel the least for political economists who will end up with no one to sell their snake oil too..

my2cents.

www.youtube.com/truefictions

I try to change people every day. Do You?

there is no hierarchy

in freemasonry. There are different steps that you take, but no hierarchy. A master mason is not a better person then an entered apprentice and has not more "power" in the lodge.