8 votes

Abandon Ship!

It's scary but I think it's time to abandon the ship. The ship of which I am speaking of is "oil dependance." The ship's infrastructure is too vunerable to manipulation, easily destroyed, the main cause of many wars and toxic to the environment. It's going down and everyone knows it. For that reason I think it's past time to get on another ship.

So my question to DP is "What ship should we start supporting & board en mass before the SHTF"?

Out of all the different energy concepts available I believe we should now go "methane" and/or it's derivatives, i.e. biogas, propane, etc.

Here's why, it's cheap and easy to obtain or make and doesn't take "billionaires" or a lot of infrastructure to get going or switch over to. In fact a lot of the methane concepts are already "up, running and tested." The switch could happen relatively easy and we should not wait until were "forced to go there." At this time, it looks to me as the only thing we've really got.

If you believe or know of something better that is actually "doable and inexpensive," then please let's here it and why you think so.

See: Biogas-The Movie 6 min.

P.S.
For anyone who believes there will always be petroleum available, that may or may not be true, but at "What price would that be"?




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bump--

.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Buy a horse

already.

America should turn all GMO corn and soy into biogas!

It will save Billions on health care in the future, plus much future heart ache that most Americans will feel when loved ones dye from cancer caused by GMO crops.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

When I see posts like this at

When I see posts like this at a "liberty site" I just have to shake my head because it's obvious the poster still hasn't figured anything out.

Free markets work simply, get the regulation out of the way as well as the cronyism so people pay the real cost of fuel and the market will decide what the best alternative is or if there really is any alternative. Everything else is just another form of central planning nonsense.

"In reality, the Constitution itself is incapable of achieving what we would like in limiting government power, no matter how well written."

~ Ron Paul, End the Fed

I haven't figured it out?

Maybe you missed the point or I did'nt make myself clear enough, so thanks, maybe I can extrapolate?

At -least- a great depression is on the horizon. At worse, a great depression with a world war. When SHTF and refineries are taken out you think you're gonna be able to obtain least afford "sweet crude?"

THAT's what all of THIS comes down to. Everything you say works fine under a real economy.

BUT we don't LIVE IN A REAL WORLD.

ABANDON SHIP!

-----

P.S.
Just so I can make myself more clear(er) with this post, I am -mainly- addressing "--TRANSPORTATION--". Everything else regarding fuel here comes second.

Because: Some animals are more equal than other animals. -Animal Farm-

What the? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks

There's nothing wrong with

There's nothing wrong with oil. You still get the best bang for the buck from oil (in terms of energy derived per each gallon of fuel for its cost).

The problem is all of the regulation, restrictions, lobbies, political payoffs, military involvement to protect fuel sources, etc.

your second paragraph is completely correct--

people who have chemical poisoning will not be able to agree with you that "there's nothing wrong with oil"--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Fields of Fuel - Official

Fields of Fuel - Official Trailer


http://youtu.be/Neigb0CYsQw

Pandas: The Silent Killer?
next 'Nightline'

times have changed,

we now export oil.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_exp_dc_nus-z00_mbblpd_m...

Russia now produces the most oil.

http://www.whichcountry.co/top-10-largest-oil-producing-coun...

you posted a "feel good" bio fuel trailer?
really?

The film is better than the trailer suggests.

This is the filmmaker, Josh Tickell's second film. He is from New Orleans and talks to oil people down there who are dying. So it's not all feel-good.

Pandas: The Silent Killer?
next 'Nightline'

Its not about the ship - it is about the stewardship of ALL

resources.

Lets face it people- we are a country of fat, lazy, wasteful, gluttonous cry babies. With the current mind set it does not matter the resource - it will be wasted and depleted.

As for what ship to get on - the self reliance ship.
Enough massive public utilities. You want electricity - provide your own. You want natural gas in your house - get a tank. When things become hard to get - people tend to treat them with a little more value.

As for me, I put solar panels on my house. Granted, it is grid tied so I am not really independent, but those panels will generate more electricity than I will use this year. My house effectively has a zero carbon footprint(other than burning wood for heat - but being a house heated by electricity - I could add more panels and eliminate that too).
The electricity generated equates to about 1000 gallons of oil per year. Not exactly going to save the world(it would take about 84000 homes of my size to eliminate just one super tanker per year).

that was good

good on you

I believe in propane and

I believe in propane and propane accessories.

Master Pretzel Twister
https://twitter.com/MenckensGhost

Really? what about santa clause?

you are such a troll. and a lame one at that.

vague statements, appeals to emotion.

do you think it makes a good refrigerant?

Don't worry, HVAC!

I am grandfathered in to the Mobile Air Conditioning Society, circa 1993. The one you respond to was probably instrumental in the introduction of PROPANE in usage of an 'alternative' to R-12.
THESE did the same thing back in the 1970's, except that it concerned ETHELYNE GLYCOL back then (after two of the three Dupont production plants mysteriously 'blew up'). There was this issue with 'black market antifreeze', back then...SAY! Didn't DUPONT ALSO have the corner on R-12, and then later, R-134?
ALL HAIL 'KYOTO PROTOCOLS'!

SOME trollers are quite obvious, and their ACTUAL statements give clues as to their ORIGINS, I suppose.

YUP.

I AM
MONTGOMERY SCOTT

yes, "Freon" is a brand name, not a substance..

propane does make a good replacement for R-12. propane and methane are but 2 of the hydrocarbons that I work with everyday. but heat is too easy and I live in the south and specialize in cooling.

MP-39 and HP-80 were awful. DuPont is not a major player anymore but still in the game.
for replacement gasses I recommend ICOR.

http://www.icorinternational.com/

R-22 just got phased out. if you or anyone else needs information about R-410a. I can help.

;)

stop followin me around what

stop followin me around what are you my little brother

Master Pretzel Twister
https://twitter.com/MenckensGhost

That boy ain't right.


http://youtu.be/vse5RfZPrCA

Please refrain from the use of propanity on this site...

Pandas: The Silent Killer?
next 'Nightline'

I will now notice the technical comments that you make.

best to have your ducks in a row. if I notice.

I was active on a biodiesel board for about 6 years...

here's my body of work (so to speak):
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&s=4476097...

I'm all about the algae. I transcribed 3 webinars' about algae on the site:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/1501000031

and also wrote at length about the do's and don't about using waste vegetable oil (WVO) as fuel. My uncle powered 3 semi trucks and about a dozen other vehicles over the years on oil he collected from about 200 restaurants in NE Wisconsin. On of the trucks ran 2 million miles on the stuff.

Unfortunately all the cooking oil used in the U.S. in one year would replace only about 4 hours of fossil fuel use in the U.S. so it isn't sustainable. But algae is...

Pandas: The Silent Killer?
next 'Nightline'

I attended an automotve A/C seminar, just for the heck of it.

I discovered that some diesel engine trucks were having problems with the A/C system, while idling in hot weather....

apparently diesel engines don't produce much heat unless they are under a load. that makes no sense to me. was I given wrong information or just not understand it correctly?

when I learned that an ordinary flame is a form of plasma, it just made sense to me that what we were really doing was creating a form of plasma. in internal combustion engines.

and only the pneumatic pressure created was being used.... all of the heat produced is wasted, (except to keep your feet warm) and what of the latent heat?

we now consider the sun to be made of plasma. if this is true, then plasma can create a magnetic field.

sound of crickets chirping...

Typical Composition of Natural Gas

please see chart.

http://www.naturalgas.org/overview/background.asp

how does trading one "fossil" fuel for another forward anything?
propane is a MINOR component of natural gas.

and if we have discovered them in VAST quantities on an extraterrestrial location... how can anyone still insist they only come from "fossils"?

LOL

LOL

Master Pretzel Twister
https://twitter.com/MenckensGhost

yes, BILL3, you are right! propane will save us all!

I BELIEVE IN PROPANE AND PROPANE ACCESSORIES TOO!!!

why on earth did I think that just because methane is safer and vastly more abundant than propane..... that propane was not the answer?

Psst...

I think it was a quip.

See: http://youtu.be/9FA__4fLBos

vague statements, appeals to emotion.

and obscure references to inane MSM programming.

are you suggesting that I missed the humor? it appeared as CLEAR obfuscation to me.

I offer concrete information for people, so do you. this guy is a troll who offers nothing.

don't flatter yourself.

I just noticed the word propane.

propane comes from oil. and the subject matter had to do with getting away from oil.

dimwit.

propane and methane come from different sources.

propane is derived from petroleum (rock oil) methane,(natural gas) comes from many sources but mostly just out of the ground.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Fossil+fuels

methane (natural gas) and other hydrocarbons are abundant throughout our solar system and probably beyond. only on earth are they 'special" and only come from decayed lifeforms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakes_of_Titan

methane is probably the cause of all the unexplained extinctions of life on earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

burn baby! burn!

I don't think that's quite right

I think the "anes" are just variations on a theme. Especially methane (C1H4), ethane (C2H6), propane (C3H8), and butane (C4H10). Technically, all of them can be found in natural gas.

http://www.3rd1000.com/chem301/chem301j.htm

http://www.natgas.info/html/whatisnaturalgas.html

you are correct. thank you!

a lot of the stuff that I post I learned so long ago that I don't even know where I learned it....
according to this, less than 1/2 now comes from petroleum.

http://www.altfuels.org/backgrnd/altftype/lpg.html