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The Truth About Circumcision

Stefan Molyneux breaks down the truth behind circumcision, including details on the procedure, it's history, rate of occurrence, claimed medical justifications, relation to masturbation, negative consequences and it's morality.


http://youtu.be/m_zkKciuIpA




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"improve their situation" ... LOL

WTF is wrong with you people on this thread.

I don't want my foreskin restored!!! Why would I want skin covering my penis-head?

This thread is ridiculous!

Get off my dick, bro!

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Understood,

but aren't you jewish? If so, you shouldn't want it.

no such thing as uncircumcised

the word uncircumcised only exists because of the word circumcise. Uncircumcised should mean to undo the circumcision. Some people refer to the penis as cut or natural (Normal) The way the creator intended it to be. As far as hygiene goes, wash the thing! With that argument, why not have your armpit sweat glands removed? Some sick fucks thousands of years ago duped the sheeple of that time into this corrupt act. Why not pour some fluoride on the new cut baby penis for good measure?

I think I'd be considered most pedantic...

... if I insisted someone make a decision bout something first and then undo it before I allowed them to claim they were "undecided"?

Would we call divorced mothers "unwed mothers"?

If you were s savage suddnely supplanted into a city would you have to be educated before you could be unruly?

WOuld a politician first have to say something that could be verified before we could thereafter call him "untruthful"?

But I do agree with your ant-cirumcision sentiments, despite this joke:
Two tramps take a break. One says "What a day! I'm gonna take my shoes off". The other tramp threatens: "if you do that I'm gonna roll my foreskin back!".

Sometimes the non aggression principle is taken

A little to far. I guess if your kid says they're not tired, you should let them stay up all night? If they are not hungry do not feed them? If they are dirty, do not bathe them? Back to the topic, I am glad my parents "forced" it on me when I was a newborn. If I had to make that decision when capable, I would probably have not had it done because of the pain. Thankfully I had it done so young, I didn't have to make the decision or remember the pain that came with it.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

wolfe's picture

Did you really just equate?

Bathing your child with slicing a piece of his penis off?

If you did the research on it, you might not be so happy about it. And if you still wanted it, guess what, you could make that choice as a grown man, fully aware of the decision.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Stefan Molyneux

Is known for taking the non aggression principle to the extreme. And no, the first part of my statement was off topic with sarcasm ( should have used the sarcasm font.) I know what a circumcision is, and the procedure involved. I am starting to think that if you did too, you would know that no one's penis is cut off when getting one.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

wolfe's picture

You do know how to read, correct?

"Bathing your child with slicing a piece of his penis off?"

Are you going to argue that the foreskin is not a part of the penis before it is sliced off? It is there to protect the tip of the penis which is a mucous membrane and NOT actually skin. After the foreskin is removed and this mucous membrane is exposed constantly to the air, it hardens as a safety response so as to appear as skin.

I clearly understand far more about circumcision than you do. Please go do some research, dig into it, then come back and finish this conversation.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

The decision to circumcise should never

The decision to circumcise should never be made for somebody else. It is a surgical procedure with permanent, serious consequences even when performed "correctly". If one believes that removing their nose and ears will reduce risk of developing skin cancer, then that is a decision they must make for themselves as an informed adult. The same is true for circumcision.

That is ludacris...

I am so glad I had my briss as a baby, on the 8th day as per Jewish custom, and don't have to go through it as a conscious minded child or adult.

Not to mention, for some of us, it is a religious custom. A sign of our covenant with G-d.

You don't have to do it, or like it, but it is my religious belief and you do not have the right to oppose that right.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

It is scientifically proven...

... by at least one case that circumcision causes precoxial dyslexia.

It is a rare condition that causes those afflicted to subsitute the names of a rapper instead of some other long English word.

Example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludacris

Parents offering their children without the childs consent

For mutalation and terror. What a horror, how barbaric. How not human.

sovereign

RECAP (recover a penis) devices...

learn more about it (if you must)

http://www.circumstitions.com/Restore.html

I saw the best minds of my generation, destroyed by pandas starving hysterical naked

-Allen Ginsberg

Why post it like that?

Nobodies penises are removed.

It is just the useless foreskin.

There must be a lot of Europeans on this thread.

I like being circumcised.

Honestly, all you penis Nazis can GFYS!

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

If anything

I laughed out loud reading the different comments on this thread.

circumcision is barbaric

pretty sure 100 out of 100 guys would say no to some Dr coming after their penis with a pair of snips

Government is supposed to protect our freedom, our property, our privacy, not invade it. Ron Paul 2007

Which is exactly why they do it when you're 8 days old...

While the 8 day rule is not how it is done in hospitals, that is the custom for Jews, which is where this thing came from.

I would not want to have it done consciously, so thank G-d it is Jewish custom to do it on the 8th day, which just so happens to be the anatomically best time to do it.

I AM GLAD I can see my dick-head, and not a bunch of weird skin that looks like an ant-eater that can get stuff in there. Yuck!

Circumcision = Clean penis = what is your problem penis Nazis?

Anything to rag on Jews huh?

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Really?!

I had a few beg me, when they had a strangulating phimosis! Those are rare except for diabetics.

One time my uncle said he was circumcised with a pinking shears.

Apparently he has a frilly dilly.

I saw the best minds of my generation, destroyed by pandas starving hysterical naked

-Allen Ginsberg

I did not have a choice in the matter, but I have my skin.

I do remember feeling "odd" as a young man when in a group setting.

yes, they do require more maintenance. they are also like a frikin barometer if a woman has yeast.

at 53, I cannot say that a foreskin makes you more susceptible to catching anything other than a yeast infection. and I even have reason to think that the opposite is true.

at the time, my wife and I decided against Circumcision for our own son. it was her decision more than it was mine.

all in all, I would advise against it. I think the reason that the mother of my son and I never discussed it was the same as all the other women I have known.

why? it is fine the way it is!

Molyneaux Is Obsessed with Violence

Think of nature. There are rain storms, and there are hurricanes. There are tides, and there are tsunamis.

Human violence happens, because sometimes people lose it and get angry, other times they really lose it and get really angry.

There are separate issues, like abstract moral decision making, or the concept of abuse and the psychology of it.

But the occurrence of violence itself is not in and of itself cosmically meaningful.

Good god, male circumcision might be a lot of things, but circumcised men don't look at their dicks and assume an immediate mental burden associated with violent abuse. A lot of circumcised men are as surprised by uncircumcised penises as women are.

wolfe's picture

If...

Most men had their right arm amputated at birth, most men would be shocked to see men with two arms. How does that mean -anything-?

Violence against children is the most heinous because they can't even begin to defend themselves. That is how you derive the Pro-Life perspective from the NAP, for those that hold it. So if you are a pro-life libertarian, this is your consistent argument.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Birth is pretty violent, as is any surgery

It's a stretch to equate male circumcision to a primordial act of violence. There is a small amount of sensation that is lost, but other than that it's sort of a convenience. It's kind of absurd to equate it to losing an arm.

Female circumcision is different. The equivalent act would be removing the head of a penis. That would be a complete loss of sensation, effectively taking a person's sex life away from them. As for the violence part, nobody remembers being circumcised (men).

Female circumcision is everything alluded to here. But equating male circumcision with that is rather obtuse.

wolfe's picture

If you TRULY believe what you just said...

then you you simply need to educate yourself about what male circumcision REALLY is and you will be on our side.

As far as equating it to losing an arm, I didn't. I was making the point that "normal" is an irrelevant/artificial concept and is as ridiculous to try to use that in this discussion as "tradition".

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

You're an intolerant penis Nazi Wolfe

GFYS with an uncircumcised penis you D-Bag!

Sorry I am resorting to ad hominem but your attack on a harmless, if anything useful tradition is disgusting.

You obviously have an agenda.

Did some intern screw up your circumcision or something, and turn you into a girl? Be honest.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

wolfe's picture

I do have an agenda.

Protecting children from mutilation. Far more noble than yours.

Do your research, read links that have been provided. You refuse, I can only assume, because you are afraid of what it means when you learn you are wrong.

I feel sorry for you.

Don't apologize for your ad hom attacks. It's all your side of the argument has, and so I would expect nothing else.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

It's not mutilation you lying slimeball

I have researched it thoroughly, and it really doesn't matter what you choose to do.

There is no harm either way.
There is slight medical benefit to circumcision. There is slight benefit in not getting circumcised, as to avoiding some amateur messing up the procedure.

Other than that it is a preference as to how you want your penis to look and feel the rest of you given life!
I choose to be cut!
You can go on pay to restore your foreskin so you can get penile cancer when you're 80, or a yeast infection, or not.

What about getting you tonsils, or appendix removed? What about Wisdom teeth?
Is that mutilation? Child abuse?

Ad hominem is all YOU have, claiming a perfectly safe, slightly beneficial, medical procedure to remove a useless piece of skin, is child abuse and mutilation.

You are a disturbed human being.

BTW, I only responded in kind to the ad hominem insults you so carelessly are tossing around. I am respectful enough, of all posters here, to admit it, and apologize for it, even when I feel it warranted.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

wolfe's picture

Calling...

The foreskin a useless piece of skin (which contains thousands of nerve sexual nerve endings and is the only protection for the MUCOUS MEMBRANE) is ignorant and shows you have done NO research.

I am disturbed because I think people should choose for THEMSELVES how their body looks and feels instead of their parents?

Wow. Then color me disturbed. Btw, the little toe has about as much chance of horrible in grown toe nails, serves little purpose to the child and is 20% of the foot maintenance for a child. Why don't we just clip those off while we are cutting shit up on babies?

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

It's an interesting perspective

That I wouldn't otherwise consider, so thank you. But I pretty much still disagree.

I'm sure that if a baby isn't circumcised, they probably won't ever be.

So, the decision is then and there. The health benefits are probably marginal in the modern age. It's also something of a 'public health' issue in terms of STDs, which is not the sort of thing I care about. Also, there is some small amount of sensation lost, and why deprive someone of any?

But, it's sort of a cultural thing. What was in the past medical forethought is now a symbol of the fact that we have children deliberately and aren't a bunch of uncircumcised jungle lemmings. I only say it so crude because I don't want the meaning lost for lack of contrast.

But, you have me thinking about it.

I'm very much a anti-transhumanist. I believe in a barrier of separation between human biology and technology. We should use technology to improve the natural and consistent workings of the body, and also use it external to the body in the form of suits, computers, vehicles, habitats. I don't think the body should be altered. Tattoos to me represent magical thinking. Implants represents the deconstruction of humanity. We could build self-replicating destructor robots and send them into the universe as the pinnacle of existence, or run a simulation of consciousness to approach infinity, and in both cases commit a sort of suicide. Nah, I think humanity represents a balance between the accidental and the deliberate. I think we ought to more or less preserve our form.

So, basically, I guess I can't justify circumcision. But, I don't think it's really that bad, maybe I won't have it done to my sons.

wolfe's picture

Reasonable and fair response.

And it's all anyone on my side of the argument can ask. We are asking for people to look at something analytically that rarely is, and so when someone like yourself takes some time to look into it, I consider that a win for education.

Thank you for thinking about it.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/