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is not a drug. I guess indoctrination worked well on you.

I am so sick of you people thinking Marijuana is so bad. I never once had a bad time on marijuana. Yet every one else is stupid on pills and drinking like morons. I didn't know this site was filled with morons who still think Marijuana is the Devil. Get over your selves!! Their are good people out there that smoke weed and work hard.

You losers can keep watching movies like , Dude, Where's My Car?

And keep thinking that all marijuana users act like that. Indoctrination at its finest and it worked on all of you.

You people missed the whole point. Sure the business can fire whom ever they want. FINE! But I was trying to state that if he never smoked weed and bumped the car still. He would have his job today.
A drug test is meaningless. Call it a marijuana test because that is all it does. So while you boss it up at the job, thinking every thing is all good. I bet 50 percent of your employers are cracked up pills or got drunk last night.

And sure I have a choice. A contract. So if I deny a drug test while applying for a job. I will never be hired.

Some of you libertarians are heartless.

Now you're just lying.

"Marijuana is not a drug. I guess indoctrination worked well on you. "

Yes, because everyone who understands the dictionary definitions of words has clearly been 'indoctrinated'. Is that the go-to retort for whenever someone disagrees with you?

A substance that has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body, in particular.

It *is* a drug. Stop trying to alter definitions of words.

"I am so sick of you people thinking Marijuana is so bad."

"You people"? So you're a collectivist, too. Good to know. I never said anything about marijuana being 'bad', so you're as full of assumptions as you are full of shit. I actually *do* smoke weed, but I guess you were too busy being judgmental to bother asking if I did.

People like *you* give pot smokers a bad name, you know why? Because the second someone disagrees with you about it, you jump down their throats with this "you people" attitude while ranting about things that haven't even been said. Way to be a knee-jerk reactionary, you clown.

A signature used to be here!

I wonder why

people like me jump at your throat. Hmmmmm.. I wonder.... Maybe because people are jumping at our throats every single day.

LOL I just had to laugh at your quote from a dictionary. I wonder who made the dictionary?

Seriously the world is so indoctrinated that people downgrade me as a person because I smoked weed. While the person that is downgrading me is high as a kite from prescribed pills. How wonderful everything is turning out to be.

I Don't Smoke Dope

I like living drug free.

Some of you alter your consciousness simply because you don't like the way your feel. I was like that once and I found a better way to live. I certainly don't want to tell anyone to smoke dope or not to smoke dope, because I am a libertarian. Unfortunately, our junkie nation is adversely effecting all of us. I'm convinced of it. I actually wrote about this very subject today. http://thecivillibertarian.blogspot.com/2013/08/junkie-ameri...

Down vote from me only for referring to marijuana as...


Heroin, Cocaine, meth, etc. are all also referred to as Dope, by some.

Marijuana, despite the negative stereo-types bought into by non-users and users who only use it as an intoxicating substance, is not DOPE, and does NOT make you stupid.

It may in fact make you smarter. It slows down the part of your brain which is responsible for filtering information. The result is that MORE information gets through.
This is why marijuana has been clinically proven in studies to allow for greater associations to be made between things that aren't necessarily obvious. It helps you connect the dots better.
This is probably why so many liberty people who are "awake". also smoke weed.
It has helped them see through the MSM lies, and connect the dots to discover what is really going on.

Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Stupid premise, no

Stupid premise, no investigation, no comparative studies, conjecture about the "waning moral fabric of society" Basically an emotionally charged diatribe mixed with a few studies which lead to no natural conclusion, so the writer bridges logical gaps with assumption and some kind of god-complex. Here's a piece of information for you, and I hope you take it seriously and read some history - human beings did not JUST RECENTLY become fucked up because of drugs. We've been that way since recorded history, and for you to try to make a stretch like this to try to prove some religious point as if there's a new trend in declining humanity is insulting to all of our intelligence. You can't get lower than zero

Downvoters: Just being

Downvoters: Just being honest...didn't care for the article...at all...whatever - read it yourself http://thecivillibertarian.blogspot.com/2013/08/junkie-ameri...


is natural. A plant!!

Calling it a drug is offensive.

but good for you. Drugs are bad.

Its actually oxy-contin. Its

Its actually oxy-contin. Its a pain killer.

Anyway, yea, they should have a right to fire/hire anyone they want. However, like people below mentioned, I am suprised they didnt give the guy some slack since he had been there for 30 years.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

Like most businesses, they

Like most businesses, they probably have a zero-tolerance policy on such matters.

companies can (or should be able to) hire/fire

If that guy had 30 years in and just bumped a car I'm a bit surprised they even made him take a test. Most people would be so ingrained in a business by that point that exceptions will be made (or they'll be the ones calling the shots); but evidently exceptions were not made and he wasn't calling the shots. The manager or owner certainly should have the right to fire someone for a failed drug test if they want to.

Hell I've got a friend that works at an advertising firm. She told me their boss walked in and 1 worker who had been with them for about a year had Facebook up on her computer, he fired her on the spot in front of everyone. She said it was in their company policy and people felt bad, but they certainly aren't seeing anyone on Facebook in the office.

wolfe's picture

The business owner does/shoudl have the right to fire...

for any cause that they see fit, including a bad haircut...

However, the question, to me, is, does the employer have a right demand a drug test which is a violation of the individual. They are only allowed to demand that through special laws, since an employer has no right to sift through my personal papers, or go through my home.

Yet they have been given a distinct additional right to force entry into the most basic of my property, myself.

If an employer witnesses behavior or anything else he does not like, or simply doesn't like the way the guy talks, he should be able to fire him (without fear of litigation), but he should not be allowed to demand a forced search (drug test).

The reason for the drugs tests is simple. An easy way to avoid litigation.

I worked for a company, where I was in upper management. Me, teh CFO, CEO and COO as well as several other directors would sit around smoking weed at office parties. We had Drug Policies on the books. The "random" tests only ever applied to anyone when they wanted to terminate someone without fear of litigation. It's an excuse.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

A person's employment may

A person's employment may hinge on the employer's ability to administer a drug test at any time, for any reason.

If a potential employee doesn't like such policies, they should never apply or take such employment.

wolfe's picture

I don't disagree with that...

Here is the problem, and what I try to correct.

It is tolerated because employees don't know any better. If a child is raised from birth to believe, through tradition, that they must cut their left hand before eating or they will not digest the food properly, then that is going to continue on until someone proves otherwise to them.

People submit to this unreasonable condition of employment because they have been taught, by the government, that it is required to be considered a good employee.

Incompetence should be punished with termination. Competence should be rewarded with employment. And unreasonable searches to determine the cause for competence or incompetence is not acceptable.

I am not trying to preach enforcing anything through the legal system. Eliminate the laws that support stupid wrongful termination lawsuits, eliminate the laws that allow these searches, eliminate the criminalization of drugs, educate employees, and then see what the market has to say. If it still holds that drug tests are the norm, then so be it, but if not, then so be it.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

Start your own business. When

Start your own business. When it's your own money at risk, folks tend to care more.

wolfe's picture

We've had this conversation... you and me, before...

I ran several successful business for greater than a decade and have been the decision make in several others.

Read what I said more closely, or all the way through this time if you don't get it. I also refuse to work for a company these days that requires drug testing (which is hard to find, but some will make exceptions for me).

The Philosophy Of Liberty -


the company he worked for wasn't a small timer. It's a big business in America.

I'd say the name but I don't want to hurt the business. I still like the place lol.

And the tactic might have worked that the boss did by firing the person on Facebook. But the Boss also could have ruined some ones life. Who knows?? Was it worth it?

When you own your own business.....

....you can do whatever the #$%^ you want. (Pretty much anyway.)

When you VOLUNTARILY enter into a contract with someone else and go to work on THEIR PROPERTY, it's their rules.

I am shocked that someone who claims to be libertarian does not understand this. If you dont understand this how can you understand private property rights, one of the two underlying tenets of libertarian thought?

No I understand that

I just don't think you understand. Almost every one I worked with smokes weed every now and then. Almost everybody I know smokes weed every now and then. If a Libertarian ran this Country. Drugs would be legal. Then I bet 80 percent of the companies wouldn't even bother drug testing or fire some one who smokes marijuana.

Drug addicts are working every day. But if that pill popper, cocaine user makes a mistake and passes a drug test which will unless they were on it right at that moment. They could be still working for the company today.

When I had a job. I was a great worker. My boss loved me. Customers loved me and asked me for me all the time. My boss knew I smoked weed. She had no problem with it. But if HR ever found out. I would have been fired in a heart beat. And my Boss would have no say in it.

Are you high right now?


I actually don't smoke any more. Because I need my job and I don't want to be thrown in a cage like some monkey. I bet you are high right now. I bet you got a beer right next you too. And I don't mean a marijuana high.

wolfe's picture

I disagree.

I own my body. I have rights over it. If I contract with someone to provide X, as long as X is provided, they can have no complaint with me.

I believe that the property rights arguments, while, of course valid, have inappropriately stopped at the line of self-ownership in regard to libertarian arguments.

It took me a while to come to terms with that myself, but I can now firmly defend that position and explain it's NAP roots.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

Not when you are on their property.

Look, no one is stopping the guy from opening up his own business on his own property with his own rules.

So, while this is an extremely unfortunate situation and one I personally concur with the feelings of the Op author on, the bottom line is tough snookies, get another job or start your own business with your own rules.

Oh so if

I work hard and obey your rules but you find out I smoke weed when I get home. You would still fire me?

wolfe's picture


"Not when you are on their property."

Their property rights do not negate mine, anymore than mine negate theirs. They can dictate how I interact with their property, but not how I interact with my own.

They have a right to fire for any reason. They do not have a right to demand the search.

The Drug Free Workplace laws are on the books to allow a business to enforce these previously illegal searches so they are created by force of law, not through the absence of law.

Furthermore, the laws aren't used to create a drug free workplace but a safety net for firing incompetent individuals without fear of litigation.

If someone is incompetent, they should be fired, regardless of the cause.

These aspects are difficult to discuss because there is "theory" of what should be vs. the "reality" of what is, and so it makes it difficult to have an intelligent debate without very careful attention to detail. In one part, I may shift from theory discussion to reality discussion and vice versa, and for you as well, and so if we continue the discussion, we should both be very careful to distinguish which it is we are discussing at any given moment.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

Doesn't Matter What The Drug

Anybody who is lighting-up, drinking-alcohol, or using any mind-altering drug while on-the-job should be fired. It doesn't matter what you do in your spare time, but an employer has every right to expect that their employees should be "capable" during their work-shift. Especially true if that employee is operating vehicles or heavy machinery.

Besides, what ever happened to the libertarian principle of allowing an employer the discretion to operate their business the way they see fit? Would you rather that the government force the employer to retain employees who are acting dangerously?

wolfe's picture


A test for weed doesn't show if you are currently intoxicated. It shows if you have been over the past few days, weeks, or even months depending on how heavily you smoke when you do smoke.

Further, it is far easier to fire someone who is incompetent, whether that is related to drug use or not, then to try to determine the cause for incompetence. And no, an employer doesn't have the right to dictate what I self medicate with, even on the job. They only have a right to judge my performance/safety.

Example: Most employers provide free coffee, caffeine which is a drug because they know it boosts performance. So they only truly care when competence is reduced.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -

Do you know

Marijuana stays in your system for 30 days?
While pain killers are out of your system under 24 hours.
Cocaine too. Heroin too.

Alcohol is out of your system in hours.

He wasn't smoking pot on the job.

He was known to be one of the best mechanics working there. I doubt the Boss had all the power to fire. The Higher ups do it.

I work in advertising


"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

No.7's picture

A man should be judged by the quality of his work, not his urine

Bump because I agree.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson