38 votes

What do you know about Russia? Propagandized much?

What is your impression of Russia?
What has Russia done in the last 20 years to deserve such hate?

In the last 5 years I can think of 3 things...
Free PussyRiot
Minor politcal corruption
and it's "anti gay" stance

Now ask yourself... Do they deserve the hate they get?

And now consider this

They basically run the worlds space industry
They have 13% flat tax
13.7% of Russians were in poverty (less then america)
GDP per capita is 20,000
They don't try to act like the worlds police
They have an awesome educational system
They fund RT and RT america
They are hosting the Olympics this year
They seem to have good relations with the rest of the world(probably because they are not bombing everything in sight)
They granted asylum to Snowden

and the so called "anti gay" laws we've been hearing so much about... most states in America have harsher anti gay laws.

SO to the people of Daily Paul, 1 hour ago I thought Russia was evil and corrupt more so then America until I actually sat down and thought "what have they ACTUALLY done to warrant such hate"...

Then it dawned on me... I've been fooled by the American propaganda machine and the best it could do was Free Pussy Riot and boycott Russia vodka for anti gay laws.

I implore you to think about actions rather then rhetoric.

Edit for clarity
I'm not saying Russia is perfect or even good, only that it is hypocritical for our media and government officials to paint Russia the way it does. In most measures, they are far and away from America on the scale of evil.



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I've been to Russia several times

Your point is considerably valid. To the extent it is safe to generalize about any country or any people, the Russian middle class is warm, genuine, intelligent, informed, educated, honest, straightforward, hard-working, capitalist, VASTLY more cultured/worldly than we are, and expanding rapidly. Incredible new construction is going on everywhere in the cosmopolitan cities. The boom is free market and driven by real wealth (not credit) accumulating in the middle class; sort of the mirror opposite of the sad fraud here in the US. You only need to go to a major city -- Moscow or St. Petersburg -- spend a little time, let go of unfounded arrogance, and see for yourself.

Their economy is booming, as I said, because they are hard working and resourceful and ... finally ... their central government is comparatively small and leaves them alone in their day to day lives. They are, in general, FAR more FREE than we currently are in the US.

Most of all, unlike in The Land of the Free :-), almost nobody in the Russian middle class is in delusion about the reality of their government. They know Putin is an oligarch and a tyrant. They don't propagandize their own children and they don't propagandize each other and they have their eyes open. They can and do speak openly about their "governance", just not on a public soapbox (doing so is dangerous...as it is rapidly becoming in the US). They laugh at us in our naivety, as well they should.

Corruption in Russia is more open but actually carries a much lower social cost. Instead of having almost everything you earn taken from you by the central government you are supposed to pay a small straight income tax .... however most people get away with paying little or nothing of that. If you are very successful in business or want to get past some bureaucratic holdup you can choose to give a small gratuity to the occasional government worker (but you don't have to). At first I was very bothered by this but, in truth, it turns out to be far more efficient in terms of time, energy, and money than our centralized system of extraction. You need to understand, this system of gratuities is not in your face, not enforced, not a daily experience, not to be feared, quite modest and usually entirely optional (you probably won't even see it unless you are trying to do something which requires bureaucratic assistance in a hurry; how is that worse than in the US where you pay through the nose 24/7 and STILL have bureaucrats hassling you and dragging their feet at every turn?).

I've been in many countries. The US is "land of the free" like Santa Claus comes down your chimney every Xmas. We live in a lie. We are massively propagandized here and our country is rapidly becoming (if it isn't already...it probably is, in fact) the most corrupt in the world. But in the US we do our corruption in style, we do it top down, and we brainwash our children to believe they are getting 'served' when they are getting raped.

(Yeah, I know our Criminal in Chief and his toadies are collecting every word I write to selectively take out of context in the future if I ever get too uppity. I am QUITE certain I was already chosen for government harassment for supporting Ron and Rand Paul in 2011-12.)

Bill of Rights /Amendment X: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Do you need a politician or judge to "interpret" those 28

Public Education the 10th

Public Education, the 10th plank of the Communist Manifesto, Russia is a Communist nation, just like the US.

They have an awesome educational system.----

This is a socialist/communist idea.

I guess I'd just encourage you to read Solzhenitsyn, Kourdakov, Vanya by Grant, and other stories of people who've been persecuted in Russia in the last 30 years.

Here is a good article as well...

http://joemiller.us/2012/11/russias-pravda-declares-communis...

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

What has Russia ever done to US? Let's ask a KGB agent....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnPEo&feature=player_de...

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Before I complain about the

Before I complain about the mote in Russia's eye I would like to cast out the beam in America's.

How many tens of billions

...did the Russians get from the West to dismantle their nuclear subs etc. and continue to get for free?

They should pay the money back...why should the taxpayers subsidize the Russians like this?

They can afford sports teams now and are going to spend 50 billions on the Olympics ....wtf?

donvino

hmm

better yet, they can send the nukes here to be dismantled upon impact. Stay thirsty my friend!

In every society you have a

In every society you have a group of power thirsty / ruthless individuals that will do anything to augment their power. Depending on the existing system for that particular society, country, these people will be able to do a lot of damage or less damage. There is no perfect system. The founders of this country realized this and they set a system of checks and balances - now this system has been eroded by years of manipulation. In Russia the Communist system allowed for unrestricted power and it caused a mess. Anywhere you go you will see this thirst for power from a small circle of people.

It is unreasonable and misleading to see countries and systems with an "emotional view" instead of a "rational view". That is, I love my country or I really like the culture or I admire the president, etc. Take the country as a system where people are looking for power. Then the explanations will become very clear. There is not good or evil - there is just cliques pursuing their self interest.

hmmm

so why create a system to allow those people to have power? why have government?

Exactly.. The less government

Exactly.. The less government the less power these people will have.

However, my point here is that when people compare countries's international policies it gets very emotional and reason is lacking.

Yes, Propaganda!

The country that produced arguable the most evil man in the 20th century who purged more than 20 million of his own countrymen and caused millions of death and tens of millions more suffering. And you call all that propaganda? Those millions of lives' blood are crying out! And you are comparing Russia to the US? US has NOT produced any president who murdered 20 million of his own countryman yet! But if you do count abortions, then yes, we are pretty close in the evil scale, too.

Still, I think you are making such comment because you have never lived under the communist rule and do not understand what it is like over there. Who said the communists have gone away? They are still in control over there, just a different name, different brand! Same evil, same corruption, same totalitarian control over their people.

Have a drink

Comrade and chill out, before you blow a vein or something. Stalin, was Georgian, politics of socialism are not much different from progressives, worship the party or go to prison or die, come to think of it it's not much different from any religion either. In the end all systems of control are the same and serve only one purpose. In the end you're just a slave, get used to it. By the way, who've nuked Japan twice? Is this the kettle calling pot black?

Hello Government worshipers

It's been a long time, however since we are on the subject that i'm personally familiar with, i was born there and lived for a while plus i still talk to my friends over there, so please indulge my musings on differences and similarities of the US and Russian mafias, aka governments.

Corruption

Over here, in US it's called government fees or political contributions or lobbying fees, they get shared between same department, over in Russia it is also shared within the same department. In the end bribery is cheaper in Russian than US, plus you get the finished result immediately instead of waiting and hoping, if they'll approve or pass the law to benefit you, and will it happen fast enough for you not to go broke.

Good education resulted in understanding of the situation, hence protests, hence government response of trying to push religion into schools and dumbing down education system at present, can't have people questioning stuff, you know.

Putin

A walking russian joke, not much power, just a clown with a podium, people tend to ignore politicians. Police, they are a fair game if they overstep their boundaries, unless of course you are in only place where they are in control, Moscow and Leningrad, everywhere else, if the bug you, kick their ass, if you win, you get away, if they win, they'll make you regret it.

There are two kinds of Russians, the oh my god i love the state, please punish me i've been bad, and the second kind is, don't worry i've got it, why don't you go and bug someone else.

So in reality all governments are designed to do one thing, restrict and collect money for passage, if you refuse they'll kidnap you or kill you. Not hard to understand is it?

Standard of living

$20,000.00 in US will get you what? In Russia only a small minority is using credit system, majority is bought for cash, savings rate is over 25% of income. Food prices are comparable to here and so are the prices for gas, only few use cars, majority are bi-pedal or use buses.

Poverty rate, poor people are retired people and some workers. Imagine a Physician. working for the government health care makes about $300.00 a month, needless to say, bribes are welcome, needless to say once ohbummer care is in the fool swing, workers salaries will be cut here as well.

What you mentioned was minor

And not really what I thought of when I think of Russia.

The most important thing that comes to mind is Putin.

He served in the KGB (we all know what that entailed), two terms as prime minister, and is in his third term as President.

Unless you're completely unaware, Russia has similar laws to the US in regards to political terms and Presidents are only allowed to server two terms. He just got elected for a third term, completely throwing out his own country's laws.

Based on information I've gathered, excluding this bit of information, Russia is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.

And I'm fairly certain that if you asked anyone in the world which countries they'd rank in the top 3 most corrupt...China, Russia, and the U.S. would all be included.

Minor Political Corruption?

Their are protests every time Putin gets re-elected with hundreds of thousands if not millions of people in the streets. I'll admit I don't know all the details but I do know their are many accusations of corruption surrounding Putin and the Russian Government.

Remember the Alexander Litvinenko poisoning?
He was exiled for campaigning against Putin and the Russian Govt claiming Putin's presidency was a coup. He was then poisoned with radio active material in London and accused Putin on his death bed. The main suspect is a Czar in the Russian Govt and is being protected by the government with immunity...

"They seem to have good relations with the rest of the world(probably because they are not bombing everything in sight)"

Georgia?
Chechnya?

Just because you don't like the US government doesn't mean Russia only has minor corruption and is a great place to live.
Oh yeah and the Avg life expectancy for males is 60 years..

Wait a second now

Those protests are clear propaganda from Western media and you have been fooled to think more than there actually is. When you combine all pro-Russia parties, it accounted for ~85% of the vote in the last election with more pro-Western parties contributing to only 15% of the vote. These are the massive protests you speak of.

And the western media exacerbates this to the 'n'th degree even though it is not a real issue. And they do it because they will do anything to undermine Russia.

Secondly, pro-Western NGOs are consistently in Russia trying to influence its youth to become more Western. These young Russians who are protesting are ignorant of the subliminal brainwashing by US NGOs.

As for the Georgia incident. That was instigated and supported by NATO and the US to once again undermine Russia.

It is not an anti-gay law. It

It is not an anti-gay law. It is a law that prohibits directing (gay) propaganda to minors. The gay lobby has been pushing this propaganda in western schools. That is the intention of this law.

There is a sizeable portion of the population in Western countries that favours this law. In Russia and Moldova it was about 86% of the population.

In France there was a manifestation of 1 million people against homosexual adoption (contrast this number to 300,000 people in MLK's march for civil rights).

You may be on a different side of the argument on this issue but it is dishonest to paint this as a human rights issue that everyone supports. That is simply not true.

26+ States have anti-gay laws?

"most states in America have harsher anti gay laws"

I live in Minnesota which is gay-friendly and has no anti-gay laws. I'm oblivious to any anti-gay laws in other States, especially any that may be harsher than those in Russia. Please remedy my ignorance. What anti-gay laws in what States are harsher than those in Russia?

they may not be enforced anymore but many are still on the books

They may not be enforced anymore but many are still on the books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_States

in any case... it's ridiculous that our media bashes Russia while we have laws on the books about it and we are allies with Saudi Arabia (the place with several violent executions a year because of sharia law)

Tools of war are not always obvious. The worst weapon is an idea planted in the mind of man. Prejudices can kill, suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has an everlasting fallout all of its own.

In the long run I appreciate

In the long run I appreciate your shining light on the issue. Your [Sodomy] link was sufficient to provide insight and show your initial claim to be overstated and incorrect. Your comment here works adequately as redaction and alternate editorial provision.

The fall of the US Federal Government will be even better.

In December of 1991, as the world watched in amazement, the Soviet Union disintegrated into fifteen separate countries. Its collapse was hailed by the west as a victory for freedom.

Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlDyf4UnAnQ

1968 along with the Warsaw Pact.

Hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions displaced and billions in national wealth stolen and never to be replaced. Also many were jailed or worse. ie Uranium mines, camps, torture, etc.

Any apologies Putin and/or from the Russian government?

This is why Russians cannot be trusted imo. I would bet there are still many wanna-be Bolshevik-Statist-Police State style people and leaders in their ranks.

One day they will have to answer for all their crimes imo. They are already being punished because they are not reproducing, most likely due to their sins and depraved lifestyle of many of their youth.

They will most likely be conquered by China one day imo.

Cheers,

donvino

Nothing like some straight up bigotry

to finish out the day

“Although it was the middle of winter, I finally realized that, within me, summer was inextinguishable.” — Albert Camus

lol

If the facts somehow disagree with you - that is your issue.

I have spoken to many witnesses to this event.

donvino

This Czech understands

that the Russian government are not angels, but we (the American government) have no claim to a 'holier than thou' position.

I don't think he was taking a 'holier than thou' position...

I think we at DP all know how bad our gov't has gotten.

But that doesn't mean Russia is any better. It just looks a little better, now.

I don't trust the New World Order. And Russia is definitely part of it.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

let's not confuse the Russian government with the Russian people

Don't blame the people for the actions of their government.

Also, don't forget that the Russians have saved Europe twice. Once from Napoleon and once from Hitler.

“Although it was the middle of winter, I finally realized that, within me, summer was inextinguishable.” — Albert Camus

thank you

for being the voice of reason here.

Yes

and that goes for all people and all governments.

No - he's talking about actual historic events.

not vague generalizations.

Pandacentricism will be our downfall.