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Does the DP have members who are Islamic or Muslim?

I have been around the DP for years now, and have wondered are there any people, brothers or sisters of this faith or culture, that believe in principals of Ron Paul? Who believes in peace and liberty?

I am by far, not ignorant, but am curious if we have people among us, that see these problems from their culture that they do not believe?

I am curious as to wonder if there is another side to it that we have not heard. Speak up please, as I would love to know and understand your points of view.

In my personal belief I know there are people all over the world with that faith and culture, who do not support the radical version of the culture.

This post is made with the ut most respect to fellow humans, and getting views that I don't know first hand.

edit ( by the way I am a 40 year old American, who is in a state of mind, knowing there is something way more powerful than humans in the spiritual sense, but just not sure exactly what it is)

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I know you were. I tried to find a way, but it was either, or..

I couldn't make it sound polite.

I really just want to know. I have been here for a while and have made pretty clear my views. For those who care about what's going on here in America, more than what's going on in Israel, I think it's easy to see I am a serious ally to liberty and the constitution.

I am against all foreign aid. I strongly supported Ron Paul.

My support for Israel consists of basically my prayers and wishes. I also figure it's my duty to defend it's honor when I see people wrongfully attacking her. So I end up arguing with people on DP. I would much rather focus on other issues, that matter here, but people want to focus on ragging on Jews, and that encourages other, uninformed people, to join in, without knowing the whole story. That's what led to the last holocaust. Now I see the same NAZI regime taking over here in America. There were traitor Jews then. There are traitor Jews now. It goes back to ancient Egypt. It's Biblical. But most Jews are just normal people. Like the vast overwhelming majority. And this ratio is nearly the same for all peoples.

I hope you can understand why I am vigilant on this. I support NO government harming innocent children, just as don't support my own government, when it does the same. But as I support the libertarian spirit of my country, and the people, I support the spirit of Israel, and the people there. I hope all these countries can figure out individual liberty, and peace! Including the Islamic countries. If the liberty factions there can win, I'm rooting for them. I am skeptical of that however. The USA and Israel, are built on ideals of individual freedom and free markets. Both have regressed, and moved to the left. So the goal is to reverse that.

I asked you what you thought a Zionist was exactly, and if I was one. You said this -

"A true zionist, in my mind, is a hindrance to the liberty movement and to the prosperity of the world. They have no desire for peace in the middle east. "

But that does not define "Zionist", which is what I asked you to do, or at least give me your opinion of the definition of the term, which was what my first response hindered upon. I don't mean to sound rude, but were you dodging the question? Can you answer it?

Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?


I didn't consider you a Zionist until you implied you were one. So, when I said "Zionists aren't welcome" - I wasn't even referring to you at the time. I considered you strictly a Jew and was embracing you with open arms.

I've rarely seen you post, so I really don't know what your opinions/stances are.

You want me to numerically list what I consider Zionists to be or what? Okay, here we go.

1. Support the existence of the state of Israel
2. Support military action in "defense" of Israel, no matter the repercussions (Hello, WWIII)
3. Support endless spending as long as it's in the name of Israel

Essentially, we have people within the States that hold Israel as more important than their own country. I consider that a problem when that means bankrupting our country and losing countless lives in pointless wars.

I support 1 & 2

not 3

So if the defense of Israel

So if the defense of Israel meant the destruction of this planet you would support it?

Let's think this through

Israel is not occupying the world as a police state. Israel has seperated from the world, saying, "You can have your NWO, but we will NOT go with the UN Agenda because we believe people need land, water, rights for their personal freedom and liberty, who they want to be, that is a God given right and it's the job of the government to protect theor rights.

Most Israelis are trained in the IDF, they become their own policemen, so people grow up knowing who the law is, if not themselves, and they belong to an IDF that will call them to duty to protect Israels' borders.

In what way could Israel destrot the planet?

They can't.

Thank you. That was the point

Thank you. That was the point I was trying to bring across.

Hold up.

Just so we're clear, you know the UN has been proactive in destroying most middle eastern countries, other than Israel, correct?

More to the point, the UN and Israel aren't at odds.

And joetorio wasn't saying Israel would destroy the planet. He was implying that your dedication to Israel is so insane that if the only way to save Israel was to destroy the world, you'd do it. Clearly a silly hypothetical, but that wasn't the point anyways. It's that you're willing to do anything, including irrational things, to protect Israel.


IO believe the leadres of these Islamic countries sell out their sovreinity and why Syrai and Egypt are at civil war.

The UN HATES Israel. The UN writes hundreds of resolutions against Israel.

My support for Israel is so insane, I think the US should be like Israel.

What is irrational is thinking that Israel would do anything other than defend it's people and property. I know the UN and it's democratic majority would have you not believe that, but it's true.


Bowl of cereal anyone????


help yourself

I'm having pizza

Granger, you have a really thick head.

Seems like everything just goes in one ear and out the other.

What is irrational is thinking that Israel would do anything other than defend it's people and property.

Wow, no way! Except for the small fact that "Israel doing anything to defend it's people and property" entails the U.S. financing them and creating enemies with the majority of the ME (in turn, Russia and China as well).

I have no fucking problem with Israel doing whatever the hell it likes. I have an issue when every time they want something done, we have to do it for them. They don't seem like a very self-reliant people, do they? Considering that's kind of their mantra and all...

I don't agree

Israel doesn't need the money. What Israel needs is for the US to stop arming their enemies and then offering money to say "we're sorry, cn we still be friends?" Israel invests that money and come up with great innovations they gove back to America, only to be bought by some insider corporation who sits on it after buying the patent and trying to get a MIC deal.

What do we do for Israel? Not much.

Israel is light years ahead of us. We are going the way of Detroit while they are THRIVING.

It was more of a hypothetical

It was more of a hypothetical question.

sure like asking

If my infant was being attacked by a stranger, would I blow my house up?

1. I am that.

2. & 3. I do not.

So where does that leave me?

Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Do you believe

that jews and gentiles are equal?

Genuine question.

Cut or uncut?

that's a joke.

I'm an individualist. I don't believe any human is equal to any other human. Our actions determine who we are, and what we are worth to who we are worthy.

I believe, what I believe. I do not know the truth. But I know some truth.

Equality, should only be sought under the law. And equality under the law is the only equality that matters.

As a Messianic Jew, I believe Yeshua has come to bring gentiles into the fold.

G-d will decide who is worthy of His Blessing, not me. Or you.

Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?


You don't fit my criteria for being a Zionist and we can go back to where things were before this whole unfortunate conversation began.

I am not a Muslim but I welcome

our Muslim friends to check out the Minaret of Freedom Institute at http://www.minaret.org/

This group was started by I. Dean Ahmad, who, at least at one time, was a member of the Libertarian Party. He is trying to get back to Islam's free market roots.

Yes. Some young guy on here is

I forgot his name here, but on twitter he is LibertarianMuslim or something like that.

my friends

are muslim and love liberty! Do you guys remember that doctors for ron paul video that came out in the last campaign? i remember there being many muslims there.

"you're a funny dude, but who gives a fuck about that? I don't care about someone's wit, I care about the courage of their heart and the honesty of their mind."

A Christian Convert

to the system of peace(islam, based on the quran only). :)

yeah when I was young, I was

yeah when I was young, I was baptist by family. as I grew and learned, I saw that the bible was perverted from its original translation into many disgusting forms.

Once I started reading the original translation, the real one, I found that it is much different than what is now taught in the bibles of today, that so many thumpers say is the absolute truth, unbeknown to them that men changed it, corrupted it, to serve their own agendas, so they are essentially no different in terms of being a uneducated hypocrite, thus actually quoting the bible with things that man changed after it was written, and are not actually factually accurate, but swear a gunfight in defending them same lies.

Man corrupted the bible as man corrupted the quran. Its up to US, as God says, to find the truth, not take anyone's word for it. Even if I believe in neither, the moral principal remains the same: to judge others by what your told, and not by actions is shameful to anyone who has done their homework and found out that your justification for demonizing others is actually false.

and today its being used in culture wars to divide us to fight amongst ourselves as to who is better, when those of any faith who have done nothing to others, are demonized for, in the end, a story re-written for them to conform to a belief never intended when written.

Dont buy into the narrative, search for original Hebrew translations of the bible and compare to king james or the other and see how far the truth has been changed and corrupted, before you stand upon your religion to justify anything to do with harming others because they are lumped into the same faith our leaders say is so bad. Its just what they want us to do, so they can control us.

For Liberty!!!

Have you heard of Messianic Judaism?

The New Testament may have been re-interpreted and some things edited and omitted by the Romans, but Yeshua the Messiah and His teachings are very real and true.

Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

What is a Messianic Jew?

Is that a Christian who thinks he's better than the other Christians?

Yes. That is exactly right. (sarcasm) ??? :(

Why would say something like that?

A Messianic Jew is a Jew who recognizes the Messiah has come, once before. They are also Christians who are seeking to understand their Jewish roots.

Messianics do not pretend to know the whole Truth, and it is all about Jews and Christians coming together to try to discover just what is going on here with this Bible stuff.

It is one religion, one story.

I'm sorry if you've let the word of others, I'm guessing in particular the Roman Institution, cloud your understanding of the scriptures (as they re-arrange the proper chronological order and omit stories altogether) and the idea that they speak the truth. Or whatever your problem is.

Messianic Judaism is one of the only forms of Christianity that doesn't claim it's better than any other, and doesn't claim that you will go to hell if you aren't messianic.

If you don't care for what Man's Structures of Power have to say about G-d, then you should study the scriptures yourself. When you get down to the nitty-gritty, Jesus was a Jew, in Jerusalem, fulfilling a Jewish prophesy. Rome was the enemy. Rome's institution was paganized from the start. That's history, not religion. Messianic Judaism is a modern search for the original faith of the past.

My Mother was born and raised Roman Catholic, went to Nun school, as did her mother. My grandmother (92) lives with us and is very hardcore Catholic, and even she is opening up to Messianic Judaism now.

My father born and raised reform/conservative Jewish.

I was raised celebrating Christmas and Chanukah, Passover and Easter, etc.

I have always found the correlations between both religions. I always felt it was really one story, misinterpreted because it was split up and divided.
My folks, in their retirement years, have come to really embrace Messianic Judaism, as they always did really, but didn't know what it was called, or what they were.

I believe it is the truth. Or closer to it. Not because of Dogma, but because of History, politics, philosophy, scripture, faith, etc...

Messianic Judaism is constantly evolving, as we learn more, and more is revealed, until His Return...

Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

All Jews are Messianic

All Jews believe the Messiah will come. He could come today. He could come tomorrow. He could come a hundred years from now. No one knows when he will come, but it is certain he will come. The Messiah is a man, not a god. A Jew does not pray to the Messiah. When the Messiah comes, all the Jews will be returned to Israel from exile, all wars will end, the Temple will descend from heaven fully built, and the dead will be resurrected. Since this has not happened, the Messiah has not come. The Messiah does not need a do-over. The soul of the Messiah has come to earth many times, because Judaism believes in reincarnation. There are many men who had the reincarnated soul of the Messiah and who could have been the Messiah, but ultimately, none fulfilled their potential. The Romans did monkey with the New Testament but not the Old.

Are you just playing devil's advocate?

A Messianic Jew believes the Messiah has already come, before! And will come again!

His name was Yeshua, aka Jesus Christ.

"A Jew does not pray to the Messiah." Really? In this case you're wrong. Hence, MESSIANIC... JEW.... Messianic Jew.

Thanks for telling me my own beliefs, though. (sarcasm)

I suggest you google Messianic Judaism or something. There are over 30,000 Messianics in Israel, up from 5,000 only a few years ago. It's growing fast because people are learning.

There are almost 100 members at our church/synagogue in western South Carolina. Mostly former Baptists. We meet with other churches and synagogues of different denominations often, and discuss all kinds of things Bible.

And The Canon did mess with the Old Testament. Such as translating it into Greek, for starters.

Also, you say Jews believe in reincarnation? Since when? You really need to learn some things before you g posting like a know-it-all.

I mean you're telling me that Messianic Judaism is not Messianic Judaism. Ok. Whatever you say, Klaus7. Maybe we should worship you, since you are omnipotent and determine reality, based upon solely on your opinions.

Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

No offense intended

I understand you want to honor both your parents and bring together their different religions. The commonality you pick up on is the brotherhood of their ancestors. Jacob is the progenitor of the Jews. His twin brother Esau is the progenitor of the Christians, whose foundation is seated in Rome and the Roman Catholic Church but extends to Protestants as well. Their father Isaac's half brother is Ishmael, the progenitor of the Muslims. These are the great Abrahamic religions.

The Old Testament is best read in Hebrew. English translations tend to be deceptive. Stick to Orthodox Jewish sources for what defines Judaism. They're the ones who observe all the laws, so they're the ones who know it best. Believe it or not, reincarnation is a central tenet of Judaism. Souls are real, and these material bodies we inhabit are mere temporary husks. Look at the 613 laws a Jew must obey. He cannot observe all of them in one lifetime. Some are exclusively for men. Some are exclusively for women. Some are exclusively for high priests. Some are exclusively for kings. Only a reincarnated soul can observe all 613.

Incidentally, there is no such word as "religion" in the Hebrew Old Testament.

The brotherhood of their ancestors?

Jesus was Jewish. Nuff said. He was the prophesized Messiah. It was never a Roman thing.

It was, and has always been, a Jewish thing. Yeshua came to bring gentiles into the fold. But that is not replacing Judaism. He is fulfilling the Law, not changing it.

Clearly, you are having a hard time wrapping your head around the concept. You are getting yourself tangled up in trivial technicalities. They mean nothing.

Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?